EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

I have what seems to me an odd question to have to ask.  I'm working  
on a film score and the director keeps chopping my music up.  He says  
he likes the music. ...then he cuts bits and pieces out of it making  
it sound like a mess...... and when the music runs short....because  
he's cut bits and pieces out of the score.....then I"m supposed to  
rewrite....leaving the pieces chopped out....  We're doing this on  
almost every scene.  It's like he's using it like library music.  I  
don't get it....why hire a composer if you're going to chop the music  
up.

I've never run into this before.....Is this common practice.  I feel  
like I"m in the twilight zone.  Some how I can't imagine Ridley Scott  
chopping up a Zimmer score.....?

julie



www.julielarson.net

> Some how I can't imagine Ridley Scott  
> chopping up a Zimmer score.....?


Actually  Mr.Scott did just this  to Vangelis on his Blade  Runner  Score, which is why it was unreleased for so long.  Obviously the person you're dealing with does not understand music composition, or the melding of image and sound. Then again, do not fall completely blind to the posibility that some of the directors ideas may have merit.
Step outsite of your ego (Isay that with respect only) and have a look from the outside. Maybe this is an oportunity to reinvent your score? Then again you may discover the director is just an ass.


I envy you not.


Good luck
Matthew

At 12:23 PM 10/31/2006, you wrote:

>I have what seems to me an odd question to have to ask. I'm working
>on a film score and the director keeps chopping my music up. He says
>he likes the music. ...then he cuts bits and pieces out of it making
>it sound like a mess...... and when the music runs short....because
>he's cut bits and pieces out of the score.....then I"m supposed to
>rewrite....leaving the pieces chopped out.... We're doing this on
>almost every scene. It's like he's using it like library music. I
>don't get it....why hire a composer if you're going to chop the music
>up.
>
>I've never run into this before.....Is this common practice. I feel
>like I"m in the twilight zone. Some how I can't imagine Ridley Scott
>chopping up a Zimmer score.....?

 From what I know from reading interviews and forums and watching the 
"making of" features on DVD's, this is actually very common even at 
the highest levels. For example, "The Phantom Menace" went through 
many alterations after the score was recorded, so the music editor 
had to do a lot of cutting, pasting and stretching to make the music 
fit. Ridley Scott definitely would not cut up Hans's score in an 
unmusical way, but he wouldn't hesitate to demand wholesale changes. 
It sounds like you are working with someone who has an amateurish 
understanding of the process, however. If he likes what you're 
writing and the score is still being developed, he should tell you 
what he likes and doesn't like and ask you to make alterations to the 
structure of the score to reflect that while still allowing you to 
sync the music logically to picture. You might want to go over to one 
of the forums frequented by composers to get more feedback on this. 
(Northern Sounds, V.I., Sanctus Angelis, etc.)

Sean

On Oct ,31, 2006, at 6:03 PM, Matthew Riley wrote:

> Obviously the person you're dealing with does not understand music  
> composition, or the melding of image and sound. Then again, do not  
> fall completely blind to the posibility that some of the directors  
> ideas may have merit.

This is good advice. Every time I have worked as a music editor,  
sitting with the director, I found their ideas to be unconventional -  
but usually with merit. They think outside the "box" because they  
don't really know the box. I always seem to end up looking at the  
cues from a different perspective afterwards and learn a little bit  
more each time about different ways of using them.


> Step outsite of your ego (Isay that with respect only) and have a  
> look from the outside. Maybe this is an oportunity to reinvent your  
> score?

I agree - it is a forced opportunity to try and shift your thinking a  
little about how the score can work.


> Then again you may discover the director is just an ass.

Yes, there can often be an element of this mixed into the equation  
too :-(


>
> I envy you not.

Roger that....... good luck.


--------
Eli Krantzberg
http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com
Almat Productions




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>I have what seems to me an odd question to have to ask.  I'm working 
>on a film score and the director keeps chopping my music up.  He says 
>he likes the music. ...then he cuts bits and pieces out of it making 
>it sound like a mess...... and when the music runs short....because 
>he's cut bits and pieces out of the score.....then I"m supposed to 
>rewrite....leaving the pieces chopped out....  We're doing this on 
>almost every scene.  It's like he's using it like library music.  I 
>don't get it....why hire a composer if you're going to chop the music 
>up.
>
>I've never run into this before.....Is this common practice.  I feel 
>like I"m in the twilight zone.  Some how I can't imagine Ridley Scott
>chopping up a Zimmer score.....?

Julie, my sympathies to you.
I have worked with many directors and though they have certainly 
asked for changes where appropriate or required, this has never 
happened to me. What your guy is doing simply shows disrespect for 
you as a composer, and for your music.

An experienced (and polite) director may try out edits in your 
absence, then play you his "new cut" in order to brief you better for 
a more final version. It is obviously a  process of growth, within 
limits. I always ask for a final cut of the picture whenever time 
allows, simply to avoid having to re-write, as this editing process 
disturbs one's musical form and ideas.

I would have a good talk to to him and explain (as non-aggressively 
as possible) that what he is doing is counter-productive to your 
creative flow.

Another solution I have found is simply to charge extra for every 
revision. This soon stops unnecessary or frivolous editing.  :-) 
(Obviously this must be negotiated when you quote fees)

Regards - Colin

On Nov 1, 2006, at 1:52 AM, Colin Shapiro wrote:


> Julie, my sympathies to you.
> I have worked with many directors and though they have certainly
> asked for changes where appropriate or required, this has never
> happened to me. What your guy is doing simply shows disrespect for
> you as a composer, and for your music.
>
> An experienced (and polite) director may try out edits in your
> absence, then play you his "new cut" in order to brief you better for
> a more final version. It is obviously a process of growth, within
> limits. I always ask for a final cut of the picture whenever time
> allows, simply to avoid having to re-write, as this editing process
> disturbs one's musical form and ideas.
>
> I would have a good talk to to him and explain (as non-aggressively
> as possible) that what he is doing is counter-productive to your
> creative flow.
>
> Another solution I have found is simply to charge extra for every
> revision. This soon stops unnecessary or frivolous editing. :-)
> (Obviously this must be negotiated when you quote fees)


OK....thanks guys for your comments, This helps with my perspective.   
I suppose going through all this pain must be doing something good  
for me....maybe it builds character


julie



www.julielarson.net