EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

I've been having EXS for a while now. 
Now i'm looking for ways to make more complex exs.programs with the 
various samples that I have, some of which coming with different 
kinds of articulations (for example in brass you may have sustained, 
staccato, swells, falls...).
My goal would be to to make programs with different groups, that I 
could trigger with something else than velocity : for example by 
turning up the mod wheel, or blowing in my breath controller, or 
pushing a pedal...
I read the manual, I looked at the editor's parameters, but found 
nothing which suggest something like that is feasable..
Any suggestion, advice, workaround ? 
Thanks !

Thoughts from the mind of sirbellog, 06-05-2002:

>I've been having EXS for a while now.
>Now i'm looking for ways to make more complex exs.programs with the
>various samples that I have, some of which coming with different
>kinds of articulations (for example in brass you may have sustained,
>staccato, swells, falls...).
>My goal would be to to make programs with different groups, that I
>could trigger with something else than velocity : for example by
>turning up the mod wheel, or blowing in my breath controller, or
>pushing a pedal...
>I read the manual, I looked at the editor's parameters, but found
>nothing which suggest something like that is feasable..
>Any suggestion, advice, workaround ?

This would typically be a job for the environment: make a patch that 
alters the position of a cable switcher, depending on the incoming 
modulation for example.  The input of the cable switcher takes 
incoming midi notes, which are sent out to various EXS instances (or 
one instance which uses samples on different midi channels, or any 
other equivalent solution).  The problem is that this will only work 
with pre-recorded tracks and not with live-input, since Logic 
requires you to have a particular EXS-track selected for live 
playing.  With the proposed solution you wouldn't have an EXS track 
selected, but a track assigned to the environment patch.  I really 
hope they fix this in the near future.  Until then, I don't think 
there's another way...

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

sirbellog [mailto:sirbellog@...] asked:
>My goal would be to to make programs with different groups, that I 
>could trigger with something else than velocity : for example by 
>turning up the mod wheel, or blowing in my breath controller, or 
>pushing a pedal...

If you have a limited note range for a specific instrument an approach
could be to create groups on the keyboard layout. E.g. c1-c3: trumpet
sust, c3-c5 trumpet stab, c5-c7 trumpet falls. All groups have similar
pitches.
Now you have te find a mechanism to address these groups. In the
simplest form you use your hands :-). But not all keyboards offer 6
octaves. Maybe look for something on swiftkick.com that transforms mod
wheel data to [note value-24], [note value], [note value+24] and cable
that to the EXS instance. In this approach you keep all velocity
information/switches within each group. Hope this makes sense. 
Regards, Herbert

Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:
>....... Logic requires you to have a particular EXS-track selected for live
>playing.  With the proposed solution you wouldn't have an EXS track
>selected, but a track assigned to the environment patch.  I really
>hope they fix this in the near future.  Until then, I don't think
>there's another way...

There's plenty to fix in the EXS24!
* Velocity crossfades
* Additional loops for release etc
* A matrix for assigning aftertouch/modwheel/breath control to 
various functions.

We really need an EXS24 v2

Regards - Colin

Thoughts from the mind of Colin Shapiro, 06-05-2002:

>Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:
>>....... Logic requires you to have a particular EXS-track selected for live
>>playing.  With the proposed solution you wouldn't have an EXS track
>>selected, but a track assigned to the environment patch.  I really
>>hope they fix this in the near future.  Until then, I don't think
>>there's another way...
>
>There's plenty to fix in the EXS24!

Uh... yes... but I don't think I denied that, did I?  I just answered 
the question...

>* Velocity crossfades
>* Additional loops for release etc
>* A matrix for assigning aftertouch/modwheel/breath control to
>various functions.

Agreed on all 3.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

>  >There's plenty to fix in the EXS24!
>
>Uh... yes... but I don't think I denied that, did I?  I just answered
>the question...

:-) I was just shouting!!

>  >* Velocity crossfades
>>* Additional loops for release etc
>>* A matrix for assigning aftertouch/modwheel/breath control to
>>various functions.
>
>Agreed on all 3.

I wonder, does anyone from Emagic still read this forum and take note 
of suggestions?

Regards - Colin

> I wonder, does anyone from Emagic still read this forum and take note
> of suggestions?

If only. I often feel like my suggestions are systematically avoided by
E-magic. E-mailing feedback directly yields similar results. -Jer

Not wanting to put exs down, but...

In Gigastudio this is done very easily.
You can assign any midi message for
switching samples, as well as the
"keyswitch" function, which uses
out-of-the-range keys for this.
It is very useful for programming
classical music, since there are so many
different articulations.
The big work is building the custom-mapped
instruments....

Regards,
Pedro

There is an environement who can allow u to switch between EXS by pressing a
Midi note :o)
"a la Gigasampler" !!!
http://dancetools.free.fr/

channel selector.

igor

yael wrote:
> 
> There is an environement who can allow u to switch between EXS by pressing a
> Midi note :o)
> "a la Gigasampler" !!!
> http://dancetools.free.fr/
> 
> channel selector.

Thanks Igor - saves us from having to make our own. :-)

Hi gang,

Just received my EXS a few days ago, and having massive fun with it. 
Two small questions though.

In my Logic folder I have aliasses to folders "EXSamples" and "AKAI 
Samples", whose originals reside on another harddisk.  I thought this 
was the proper way to do it, but just want to make sure.  I'd like 
the EXS to spend as little time as possible searching my disk...  In 
fact, I'd like the EXS to _only_ search those folders and no others...

Since I converted some AKAI disks I still had lying around, and since 
those disks contain massive amounts of programs, the program-menu in 
the EXS contain quite a few entries & sub-entries.  Now it takes a 
_few seconds_ before the bloody menu opens -- each time I open it 
(not just the 1st time during a session).  Is this normal?  If not, 
what can I do to speed this up as it's extremely annoying.  Does the 
amount of entries have anything to do with it?


thanks in advance,
HJ, off to play around a bit more :)
-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Hi HJ,

>In my Logic folder I have aliasses to folders "EXSamples" and "AKAI
>Samples", whose originals reside on another harddisk.  I thought this
>was the proper way to do it, but just want to make sure.  I'd like
>the EXS to spend as little time as possible searching my disk...  In
>fact, I'd like the EXS to _only_ search those folders and no others...

You did well, but currently EXS searches_always_when it does_not_find the 
referred audio files in the Sampler Instrument file description. This 
happens when you convert e.g. an Akai disk into exs format, and later you 
move these files into another folder.

Once you loaded a Sampler Instruments, and after it found the appropriate 
audio files,it overwrites the audio file location reference in current 
instrument to the right one, so loading it next time will happen very quickly.

If you open the Instrument editor, and go to Edit/Prefernces..at least on 
PC, then you can define there a volume where to search samples. 
Partitions/volumes are currently the biggest unit for searching, so 
currently you can not restrict the search process to a specific directory!

There are rumours about the Logic 5.2 where the current file management 
scheme will be improved.

>Since I converted some AKAI disks I still had lying around, and since
>those disks contain massive amounts of programs, the program-menu in
>the EXS contain quite a few entries & sub-entries.  Now it takes a
>_few seconds_ before the bloody menu opens -- each time I open it
>(not just the 1st time during a session).  Is this normal?  If not,
>what can I do to speed this up as it's extremely annoying.  Does the
>amount of entries have anything to do with it?

Hm...dunno on Mac, on PC it works fast. But it is advisable to rearrange 
and simplify the sometimes "5 volume for the same type of sound" 
overcomplicated and archaic Akai CD structures into less folders, and even 
deleting the useless folder levels.


>thanks in advance,
>HJ, off to play around a bit more :)
>--
>Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
>Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html
>
>
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 > z o o l a b <  ItaB
Experimental melodic trance
www.zoolabmusic.com

Thoughts from the mind of Bacizone, 10-05-2002:
>You did well, but currently EXS searches_always_when it does_not_find the
>referred audio files in the Sampler Instrument file description. This
>happens when you convert e.g. an Akai disk into exs format, and later you
>move these files into another folder.
>
>Once you loaded a Sampler Instruments, and after it found the appropriate
>audio files,it overwrites the audio file location reference in current
>instrument to the right one, so loading it next time will happen very quickly.

Ah... that might explain some things....  Thanks.  So all I have to 
do is open all zillion programs once...  Sigh... :-))

>If you open the Instrument editor, and go to Edit/Prefernces..at least on
>PC, then you can define there a volume where to search samples.

Ditto on Mac (you can pick "local", "all volumes" or "external", I 
think -- so you can't really pick one specific volume).  However, as 
long as all files are in the EXSamples and AKAI Samples folders, 
there shouldn't be any need to search any further, right?

>There are rumours about the Logic 5.2 where the current file management
>scheme will be improved.

Ahw... rumours...

>  >Since I converted some AKAI disks I still had lying around, and since
>>those disks contain massive amounts of programs, the program-menu in
>>the EXS contain quite a few entries & sub-entries.  Now it takes a
>  >_few seconds_ before the bloody menu opens[...]
>
>Hm...dunno on Mac, on PC it works fast.

Hmpff...

>But it is advisable to rearrange and simplify the sometimes "5 
>volume for the same type of sound" overcomplicated and archaic Akai 
>CD structures into less folders, and even deleting the useless 
>folder levels.

I've already done some cleaning up, but that's a hell of job....  One 
CD can easily contain more tan 500 programs, mostly with very 
intelligent names like "TB ST M" :-).  Oh well, I'll just patiently 
and painstakingly clean up the mess to see if the speed of the 
program menu improves...

Thanks 4 replying...

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:
> Ah... that might explain some things....  Thanks.  So all I have to
> do is open all zillion programs once...  Sigh... :-))

Hi Hendrik Jan,
Here's a little tip for you:
1) Get yourself some program to delete (or move) all "cloned" samples from
your EXS samples directory (on Windows there's a freebie called Clonespy,
www.clonespy.de). This is important for the following steps.
2) Setup a MIDI message in the EXS's preferences to switch programs (one for
"program up" should be enough).
3) Setup a cycle with a sequence sending the defined MIDI message on an EXS
track.
4) Select the very first EXS instrument.
5) Let the sequence play and go have a coffee (or whatelse).

=> When you come back all your instruments should've been loaded at least
once, so any further loading will open them very fast.
Now you might also see the reason for 1): If the EXS finds any duplicated
samples it will ask which ones you'd like to use, which you have to answer
manuallly and therefor the described process won't work.

Regards,
Sascha

Thoughts from the mind of Sascha Franck, 10-05-2002:

>Hi Hendrik Jan,
>Here's a little tip for you:
>1) Get yourself some program to delete (or move) all "cloned" samples from
>your EXS samples directory (on Windows there's a freebie called Clonespy,
>www.clonespy.de). This is important for the following steps.
>2) Setup a MIDI message in the EXS's preferences to switch programs (one for
>"program up" should be enough).
>3) Setup a cycle with a sequence sending the defined MIDI message on an EXS
>track.
>4) Select the very first EXS instrument.
>5) Let the sequence play and go have a coffee (or whatelse).

Wow, this is a wicked hack :-))).  Only step 1 will be one to give 
some thought...  Tres cool.  Thanks a lot -- I wouldn't have thought 
of this.

Just to make sure: I suppose the 1st EXS program is the 1st one in 
the 1st submenu of the 1st submenu...(etc) of the program popup list, 
right?

Something new to be learned every day...

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Hi HJ,

>Just to make sure: I suppose the 1st EXS program is the 1st one in
>the 1st submenu of the 1st submenu...(etc) of the program popup list,
>right?

No, the easiest way to check it to switch the EXS from "Editor" mode to 
"Control" mode and there you see the first patch in the "Instrument" entry 
after the "---" at the top left.
Start the procedure from there...this will be the order EXS will start to 
search the samples ot instruments.

Thanks Sascha for this great help anyway!

ItaB
 > z o o l a b <
www.zoolabmusic.com

Thoughts from the mind of Bacizone, 10-05-2002:

>No, the easiest way to check it to switch the EXS from "Editor" mode to
>"Control" mode and there you see the first patch in the "Instrument" entry
>after the "---" at the top left.
>Start the procedure from there...this will be the order EXS will start to
>search the samples ot instruments.

Okay, great -- thanks.

BTW Ita, I'll respond to your private mail asap...  Bit busy right now...

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Hendrik Jan wrote:> >Just to make sure: I suppose the 1st EXS program is the
1st one in
> >the 1st submenu of the 1st submenu...(etc) of the program popup list,
> >right?

Ita replied:
> No, the easiest way to check it to switch the EXS from "Editor" mode to
> "Control" mode and there you see the first patch in the "Instrument" entry
> after the "---" at the top left.
> Start the procedure from there...this will be the order EXS will start to
> search the samples ot instruments.

Actually both methods are right - first submenu, first entry will work as
well.

> Thanks Sascha for this great help anyway!

No problem, this tip is courtesy of Andrea Gozzi though.

Btw, before the EXS had the MIDI message to soundswitching feature I was
doing the same while switching to "Control" mode, clicking in the Patch
pulldown, then using the + button, which I fixed with some piece of paper so
I didn't have to do it all manually - yes, sometimes you have to be
inventive, even with some 21th century software.

Cheers,
Sascha