EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

klagga wrote:

>
> What╢s the best grand piano samples anyone uses the EXS24 for? I╢m
> talking pro quality here.

I'd put it in a slightly different way: does the Splendid Grand from
the Akai site work as good as it does with the real Akai sampler?
I'm a hardware sampler guy, and I've just been invited to play a
piano part at an EXS equipped studio, and my experience with the
EXS is limited to say the least. Also, I searched through the manual
and couldn't find if I can use off-velocity to modulate the release
the way I do on my Akai/E-Mu machines. Am I missing something or
there's no such feature in EXS? Would I be better of bringing my Akai
instead? Thanks.

Best,

Andy

You might want to check out wizoosounds.com they just recently came out with 
a sample version of the grand. They say there is an exs24 version that can 
be purchased on CD coming soon, or it looks like right now they are selling 
a 230+ meg download right now for around 80.00 I have not heard it yet but I 
have bought some of there small downloads and have been some what impressed. 
Any way here is the link to check out The Grands little brother in exs24 and 
other formats: http://www.wizoosounds.com
Paul Martinson
>From: <HELP@...>
>Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
>To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [exs] Best piano with EXS24
>Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 17:02:29 -0500
>
> > What\ufffds the best grand piano samples anyone uses the EXS24 for? I\ufffdm
> > talking pro quality here.
> >
> > I\ufffdm thinking of trying Halion or Kontakt together with the gigapiano-
> > samples, since these samplers can import the gigasampler format,
> > which EXS24 cannot. But I\ufffdd rather use EXS24 because I guess that
> > would be more solid/bugfree together with my sequencer Logic.
>
>Since Steinberg's "The Grand" is such a memory and DSP hog and only sounds
>REALLY GOOD at it's highest-quality setting, I'm considering making it into
>an EXS instrument at some point soon. Theoretically, it would be pretty 
>easy
>because I can sequence all the notes at exactly the precise velocities to
>get what I want. To get The Grand to work properly, I had to slow my
>soundcard to 6 milliseconds from 3 in order to eliminate ASIO crackle. It
>really is a pig (yes I have 1.5GB of RAM). So an EXS instrument would be a
>really nice option. Although not perfectly real, The Grand is the best
>sounding piano, other than a real piano, that I've personally heard.
>




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world\ufffds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com

> What\ufffds the best grand piano samples anyone uses the EXS24 for? I\ufffdm
> talking pro quality here.
> I\ufffdm thinking of trying Halion or Kontakt together with the gigapiano-
> samples, since these samplers can import the gigasampler format,
> which EXS24 cannot. But I\ufffdd rather use EXS24 because I guess that
> would be more solid/bugfree together with my sequencer Logic.

The Halion will give you the better results because of it's mega trigg
feature that can emulate the Giga dimensions found in the GigaPiano.
The Gigapiano uses 2 different dimensions : the release trigger and
the damper pedal and both are supported (and converted) by Halion.
I don't think this is the case with Kontakt even if it can read the Giga
format.
Or you can use CDXTRACT 4 on PC or Mac to convert the
GigaPiano to the EXS24 format, because the EXS24 doesn't
support these dimension they will simply be removed during
the conversion but that still gives you an excellent piano with
an overall size of 723 MB.

Bernard

Is it legal for a person to manually sample the notes from The Grand,
assemble them into an EXS24 patch, and distribute both elements to others?
Wouldn't this be the same as sampling and distributing samples of a synth?

Eric Pershing, I would be particularly interested in your opinion on this...

Thanks, -Jer

I have now created the new "Grand" and it sounds superb as an EXS24
instrument. Weighing in at only 127MB, it sounds as good as "The Grand" does
minus all the malfunctions of The Grand on max settings. I have sampled
every note at full sustain/velocity (at max quality) and programmed the
filter cutoff to rely on attack. To my surprise and delight, it sounds very,
very realistic in terms of its hammer action, as much to me as the original
Grand does. Now the legal question... I'd love to post this to you guys, but
I'm not sure if the Grand qualifies as a synth or would this be construed as
a redistribution of an existing sample factory? Help me out Eric P!

OK, I take it back. It's not as good as the grand is, but to run the grand I
have to set my Dual-800 G4 from 3ms to 29+ and forget adding any production
around it for a song arrangement. To be honest, I've never played the grand
without ASIO clicks in a full (piano-only) composition. Smaller groups of
notes work ok, but a full song chokes a lot in Logic. Still, my work on this
stand-in will come in handy. Perhaps updates of The (original) Grand will
address performance problems in Logic. In the meantime, this recreation is
among the very highest quality I have in my Instruments folder at this
point... Maybe, one day, if I'm feeling very ambitious, I'll take a crack at
multiple layers...

----------

From: HELP@...
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 06:01:17 -0500
To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [exs] Best piano with EXS24 (legal)

I have now created the new "Grand" and it sounds superb as an EXS24
instrument. Weighing in at only 127MB, it sounds as good as "The Grand" does
minus all the malfunctions of The Grand on max settings. I have sampled
every note at full sustain/velocity (at max quality) and programmed the
filter cutoff to rely on attack. To my surprise and delight, it sounds very,
very realistic in terms of its hammer action, as much to me as the original
Grand does. Now the legal question... I'd love to post this to you guys, but
I'm not sure if the Grand qualifies as a synth or would this be construed as
a redistribution of an existing sample factory? Help me out Eric P!

Hi Jer,

Maybe this has been answered already, but I can assure you that it is most 
definitely illegal to post samples from any sample-based instrument (hardware 
or software). Roland established the precedent in case law a few years back 
against a French company called "Dream". The Dream case provides the legal 
precedent for protection against resampling a sample-based instrument. 
Sampling a PCM based instrument, and redistributing the samples is asking for 
trouble. I'm sure Wizoo/Steinberg protect their samples as much as other 
manufacturers do. (ie; vigorously).

Hope that helps.

-EP


In a message dated 6/29/02 11:49:04 PM, HELP@... writes:

>Is it legal for a person to manually sample the notes from The Grand,
>assemble them into an EXS24 patch, and distribute both elements to others?
>Wouldn't this be the same as sampling and distributing samples of a synth?
>
>Eric Persing, I would be particularly interested in your opinion on this...
>
>Thanks, -Jer

> Maybe this has been answered already, but I can assure you that it is most
> definitely illegal to post samples from any sample-based instrument (hardware
> or software). Roland established the precedent in case law a few years back
> against a French company called "Dream". The Dream case provides the legal
> precedent for protection against resampling a sample-based instrument.
> Sampling a PCM based instrument, and redistributing the samples is asking for
> trouble. I'm sure Wizoo/Steinberg protect their samples as much as other
> manufacturers do. (ie; vigorously).
> 
> Hope that helps.

Thanks, Eric. In my mind the question was actually, is The Grand a
Sample-based instrument, since it appears to be a bit of a hybrid. I guess
Wizoo licensed the right to reproduce The Grand samples then, because
another user mentioned that they were releasing some EXS24 sample kits
derived from The Grand. Most "synthesizers" these days are based on sampled
waveforms. Where does the law draw the line I wonder? Seem to me, hybrid
technology is a growing trend. -Jer

In a message dated 7/3/02 2:15:58 AM, HELP@... writes:

>Thanks, Eric. In my mind the question was actually, is The Grand a
>Sample-based instrument, since it appears to be a bit of a hybrid. I guess
>Wizoo licensed the right to reproduce The Grand samples then, because
>another user mentioned that they were releasing some EXS24 sample kits
>derived from The Grand. Most "synthesizers" these days are based on sampled
>waveforms. Where does the law draw the line I wonder? Seem to me, hybrid
>technology is a growing trend. -Jer

The Grand is based on samples and those samples are protected by the SR 
copyright. Sampling PCM based instruments is considered creating "derivitive 
works" under the copyright law and you have to have permission (a license) 
from the copyright holder to do this. It is a fine line in some cases, but 
the courts always favor the copyright holder in these situations....because 
generally speaking, if the derivitive work is super freative and really 
original, than it usually doesn't end up in court. Releasing samples of the 
Grand would be a clear-cut case of infringement based on my experiences with 
these cases. (I'm not a lawyer of course, but I've been involved in many of 
these infringement cases with both Roland and Spectrasonics protecting their 
intellectual property).

FYI, Wizoo doesn't license the samples from the Grand...they made the Grand, 
so they are the owners of the material in the first place.

That's my knowledge at least.

best,

-EP

In a message dated 7/3/02 12:32:24 PM, PersingEP@... writes:

>super freative

Uhhhhh......I mean "super creative"

!!!!!

LOL

-EP

> FYI, Wizoo doesn't license the samples from the Grand...they made the Grand,
> so they are the owners of the material in the first place.
> 
> That's my knowledge at least.

Ah, thanks Eric. Well, I guess the world won't get to enjoy my port. But at
least it won't cost me anything.