EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Hi Eric,

I still remember the best crossfading instrument I came across in years: the
e-piano of the Roland U-2(2)0. It crossfaded from tiny bells to a pleasant
roar without any audible switching (which can't even be said of e-piano's in
todays high tech workstations). Any tricks there, or just very good sampling
:-)?

Eppo Schaap
Galbatron Epic Symphonic Electronica
www.galbatron.com
music: www.mp3.com/galbatron

----- Original Message -----
From: <PersingEP@...>
To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: [exs] Xfade's great, but what about the phasing?


> Heh....nope! All samplers have this same problem.
>
> -EP
>
> In a message dated 11/29/02 9:47:57 AM, ned@... writes:
>
> >Well, I know I b*tched just like a lot of people about EXS having a
sample
> >
> >crossfade function: be careful what you wish for!
> >
> >Has anyone noticed the phasing when you're in that in-between-two-samples
> >
> >zone (say mp and mf)? If the samples are slightly out of tune with one
> >
> >another (a few cents will do the trick, no?), they will phase.  Any
> >solutions, oh wise ones?
> >
> >Ned
> >
> >
> >
> >http://www.nedfx.com
> >
> >       Ned Bouhalassa
> >
> >n e d @ n e d f x . c o m
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send a blank email to:
> >   exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >For a list of places to get free samples please see:
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
> >Return-Path:
>
<sentto-2063441-6862-1038592062-PersingEP=aol.com@...>
> >Received: from  rly-xd04.mx.aol.com (rly-xd04.mail.aol.com
[172.20.105.169])
> >by air-xd03.mail.aol.com (v89.21) with ESMTP id MAILINXD34-1129124757;
> >Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:47:57 -0500
> >Received: from  n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com
[66.218.66.102])
> >by rly-xd04.mx.aol.com (v89.21) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXD43-1129124744;
> >Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:47:44 1900
> >X-eGroups-Return:
> sentto-2063441-6862-1038592062-PersingEP=aol.com@...
> >Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29
> >Nov 2002 17:47:43 -0000
> >X-Sender: ned@...
> >X-Apparently-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> >Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 29 Nov 2002 17:47:42 -0000
> >Received: (qmail 42551 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 17:47:41 -0000
> >Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216)
> >  by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2002 17:47:41 -0000
> >Received: from unknown (HELO VL-MS-MR004.sc1.videotron.ca)
(24.201.245.36)
> >  by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 17:47:41 -0000
> >Received: from nedfx.com ([24.200.9.192]) by VL-MS-MR004.sc1.videotron.ca
> > (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 0.9 (built Jul 29 2002))
> > with ESMTP id <0H6C005FKMT8HU@...> for
> > exs-users@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:48:44 -0500 (EST)
> >To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> >Message-id: <3DE7A7F7.3060602@...>
> >Organization: nedfx.com
> >X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
> >User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.1)
Gecko/20020823

> > Netscape/7.0
> >From: Ned Bouhalassa <ned@...>
> >X-Yahoo-Profile: bouhalassa
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Mailing-List: list exs-users@yahoogroups.com; contact
> exs-users-owner@yahoogroups.com
> >Delivered-To: mailing list exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> >Precedence: bulk
> >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:exs-users-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
> >Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:46:31 -0500
> >Subject: [exs] Xfade's great, but what about the phasing?
> >Reply-To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send a blank email to:
>    exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> For a list of places to get free samples please see:
>    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Legend has it that Roland had some nice custom sample-processing 
software that they used to create some of their sample libraries.

If you were doing this seriously, and had access to your sampler 
editor's code, I guess you'd put in a feature to overlay two samples, 
set one sample to be the master, click a set of peaks or other 
identifiable points on the master waveform, click the corresponding 
peaks or points on the slave waveform and then have the automatically 
run through the slave waveform cutting or padding data until those 
points aligned, after which you'd hopefully have a guaranteed 
phaselock, and could try breaking the thing into components for 
resynthesis (selecting nice clean unvibrato'ed source samples 
probably helps). 
Roland's R&D helped create a range of resynthesised piano/epiano 
units (MKS20/P330/etc), so maybe their epiano samples were a spin-off 
of that development ... or maybe the samplists simply took one of the 
resynthesised piano patches, turned off the modulation, and got nice 
clean in-phase pairs of samples that way. 

PS: For complex-sounding "real" piano multicrossfades, I guess part 
of the problem is getting the notes played precisely enough in a 
repeatable way, across the keyboard, with precisely-defined force 
intervals -- that might allow you to minimise some of the phase-
variation issues. Yamaha's piano factory has automated machines that 
repeatedly thump the individual keys on completed pianos as 
a "shakedown" exercise -- since seeing that, I've always wondered how 
much easier it'd be to sample a piano properly, played with properly-
calibrated strengths using one of those machines. 
You could sit there with your analysis software, telling your 
autoplayer robot to keep playing "layer seven" strength on a 
particular key until the software beeped told you that the phase was 
a close enough match to the existing "layer six" sample, then click 
ok and repeat the exercise for "layer eight" on that note, and so on. 
Once you'd got the technique right, you could cover the whole 
keyboard in a reasoable amount of time, then do other pianos in the 
same way, then start looking at ways to reduce the amount of data 
when you got back to your lab. 


--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "Eppo Schaap" <eschaap@w...> wrote:
> I still remember the best crossfading instrument I came across in 
years: the
> e-piano of the Roland U-2(2)0. It crossfaded from tiny bells to a 
pleasant
> roar without any audible switching (which can't even be said of e-
piano's in
> todays high tech workstations). Any tricks there, or just very good 
sampling
> :-)?