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K5m Verify Error

K5m Verify Error

2019-04-27 by cball@...

I have a K5m and I'm trying to get it working. I bought it used as "non-working" and my unit is different than most. The ROM is in the alternate slot and there are numerous jumpers on the board, some of which go to an extra chip, a 74hc240 wired towards the un-populated side of the board. I read this is an 8 bit buffer/line driver. Kawai told me I may have an early prototype version, they didn't know.


It receives MIDI and makes the default sound, but I cannot change much of anything.


I have tried several times plugging/unplugging the battery and the M-004 lower board, but no results.


If I try to "Write" to internal memory I get a "Verify Error". I may try to get a RAM card to try to see if I can save to it or load patches from it. But I was hoping somebody had seen this error before and may have some insight.


thanks


Chris

Re: K5m Verify Error

2019-05-17 by cball@...

Hello K5 Group,

After letting the K5 sit for a few days with the battery disconnected and the display not plugged in, I decided to try it out again with no battery.

Surprisingly I was able to adjust parameters, change MIDI channel turn on/off system exclusive as if all was normal.

Then, suddenly it stopped and I was back to the limited selection, most parameters not working but still able to make a few choices.

So I now believe I do have a functioning unit, yet something is still wrong.

I'm going to try to repeat the last setup and see if I get the same results.

Re: [k5synth] Re: K5m Verify Error

2019-05-17 by Sylvester Leontiadis

Hi,
It looks like a rom problem?
Have you tried new ROMS ?

From: k5synth@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 17, 2019 5:47 AM
To: k5synth@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [k5synth] Re: K5m Verify Error

Hello K5 Group,


After letting the K5 sit for a few days with the battery disconnected and the display not plugged in, I decided to try it out again with no battery.

Surprisingly I was able to adjust parameters, change MIDI channel turn on/off system exclusive as if all was normal.

Then, suddenly it stopped and I was back to the limited selection, most parameters not working but still able to make a few choices.

So I now believe I do have a functioning unit, yet something is still wrong.

I'm going to try to repeat the last setup and see if I get the same results.

Re: [k5synth] Re: K5m Verify Error

2019-05-17 by Antoine Deschênes

Maybe the ROMs are rotting out, but I'd make sure the power supply is working properly first. I had one unit starting to have cracked solder joints on the power supply board in the late 90s. It had a lot of hum coming from the headphones and output jacks. Capacitors could be going bad as well too. If you can check with a multimeter, maybe you have a lot of AC ripple or wrong voltages coming through
Show quoted textHide quoted text
Le ven. 17 mai 2019 01 h 50, Sylvester Leontiadis dir_marillion@... [k5synth] <k5synth@yahoogroups.com> a écrit :


Hi,
It looks like a rom problem?
Have you tried new ROMS ?

From: k5synth@yahoogroups.com <k5synth@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of cball@... [k5synth] <k5synth@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2019 5:47 AM
To: k5synth@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [k5synth] Re: K5m Verify Error

Hello K5 Group,


After letting the K5 sit for a few days with the battery disconnected and the display not plugged in, I decided to try it out again with no battery.

Surprisingly I was able to adjust parameters, change MIDI channel turn on/off system exclusive as if all was normal.

Then, suddenly it stopped and I was back to the limited selection, most parameters not working but still able to make a few choices.

So I now believe I do have a functioning unit, yet something is still wrong.

I'm going to try to repeat the last setup and see if I get the same results.



Re: [k5synth] Re: K5m Verify Error

2019-05-18 by cball@...

Hello thanks for your replies.

I have purchased a new 1.2 ROM and have it in the unit. It responds the same way as the 1.0 ROM.

I have been able to repeat the results: If I turn it off, battery out then on start I can briefly adjust all parameters. I set it to the master tune, adjusted it up +4 and left it for several minutes, just to see what would happen.

The K5 maintained flashing the +4 until I moved the data dial and we are back to limited selection. When in that state, I can rename patches, change patch volume, but I cannot save with or without battery in, with or without memory protect on/off. I also cannot change System parameters.

Briefly, everything is as expected, then limited control. I was bale to set MIDI channel, then back to no luck. I have to leave it off for about an hour to get it to briefly allow System changes.

I think perhaps one of the RAM chips is failing or somehow being shut off, this could be as you mentioned a power supply issue. I have schematics from Kawai, there are several RAM chips on both the M-03 and M-04 board, but I think It could be the working RAM.

I'm also wondering if the RAM is getting written too by the system and filling up.

It doesn't help that I have an early revision, with jumpers soldered here and there and oddly the ROM in the alternate slot. I purchased another K5m motherboard and it has numerous differences, would not work with the K5 shell I have I think because of the power headers in different locations.




Re: [k5synth] Re: K5m Verify Error

2019-05-18 by Sean Luke

What interests me is that your machine works for a bit, then fails for an hour.

There are two possible reasons for this:

	- A component is failing when it warms up, and you must let it cool back down.  I wonder what happens if you leave the machine open, with a fan blowing cold air into it.  Does it stay on slightly longer?

	- You have a very small crack in a solder joint etc. which acts like a capacitor.  It works for a while, but then it builds up enough capacitance to cut off the connection.  You have to then let it sit for a long time to bleed out the capacitance.  This happened to me once with an old NeXTstation, though the bleed-out time was about 10 days.

Either way, this doesn't sound like fun.

Sean
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On May 18, 2019, at 12:38 AM, cball@... [k5synth] <k5synth@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello thanks for your replies.
> 
> 
> I have purchased a new 1.2 ROM and have it in the unit.  It responds the same way as the 1.0 ROM.
> 
> I have been able to repeat the results: If I turn it off, battery out then on start I can briefly adjust all parameters.  I set it to the master tune, adjusted it up +4 and left it for several minutes, just to see what would happen. 
> 
> The K5 maintained flashing the +4 until I moved the data dial and we are back to limited selection. When in that state, I can rename patches, change patch volume, but I cannot save with or without battery in, with or without memory protect on/off. I also cannot change System parameters.
> 
> Briefly, everything is as expected, then limited control. I was bale to set MIDI channel, then back to no luck.  I have to leave it off for about an hour to get it to briefly allow System changes.
> ! 
> I think perhaps one of the RAM chips is failing or somehow being shut off, this could be as you mentioned a power supply issue. I have schematics from Kawai, there are several RAM chips on both the M-03 and M-04 board, but I think It could be the working RAM.
> 
> I'm also wondering if the RAM is getting written too by the system and filling up.
> 
> It doesn't help that I have an early revision, with jumpers soldered here and there and oddly the ROM in the alternate slot. I purchased another K5m motherboard and it has numerous differences, would not work with the K5 shell I have I think because of the power headers in different locations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [k5synth] Re: K5m Verify Error

2019-05-19 by cball@...

Hello thanks for the info.

I didn't realize that capacitance from bad connections and fractured solder traces could happen. I am going to try as suggested to re-solder all the power supply joints. But finding where the other possible bad solder joint is might be difficult, however it appears to be RAM related.

I had written I thought it might be Working RAM, but because of the "Verify Error" on trying to save patches internally I think it may be both or the program RAM. I think I read that the K5 uses some of the "program" RAM, i.e., patch RAM, for some other functions.

I hope I do not need to replace the RAM chips, that would be a drag. I did find some small amounts of the chips online.

Once I get the power supply solder joints re-soldered and there is no change I might try re-soldering all the RAMs pins, shouldn't hurt anything if I'm careful.



Re: [k5synth] K5 patch editor

2019-05-27 by Fair light

Hello!

Is there anybody who can tell me of how can I get a good working Kawai K-5 patch editor for PC, or for old Mac or for Atari? Any copies, downloadables, help are very welcome. Thank you!

Re: [k5synth] K5 patch editor

2019-05-29 by Sean Luke

Edisyn works well on Windows and the Mac.  But it will require Java and runs on *moderately* recent versions of those OSes.

Sean
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On May 27, 2019, at 11:53 AM, Fair light fairlight2x@... [k5synth] <k5synth@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
>  Hello!
> 
>  Is there anybody who can tell me of how can I get a good working Kawai K-5 patch editor for PC, or for old Mac or for Atari? Any copies, downloadables, help are very welcome. Thank you!
> 
>

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