2015-12-23 by domgoold@...
hi everyone, new member :)
i just picked up a k1rII, which is in pristine condition. however its sound output
is a mess: no noise on outputs but i get crackling and i'm sure these aren't
how the waveforms are supposed to playback.
my patches from a memory card are a mess too.
is this a very sinister fault with CPU or DAC, or just a battery going flat?
if it's the 'bad' could it be caused by knock in transit? it came with original psu,
but that's no guarantee it hasn't been plugged into something else.
any ideas appreciated, thanks.
the 2nd issue is: i thought i was buying a regular K1r, not a mkII.
is this model the same bit-rate as the mark1? i read somewhere
that they went to 16bit, but wasn't that the K4?
(also thought i'd find fx on this one, but apparently that was only the kbd
version?)
2015-12-23 by Samuel Cameron
i presume there is a headphone out that is the same((that should not be a flat batteryas that only loses memories..obviously you should do reset then loadsome patches via midiand see if it is no bettersam
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From: "domgoold@... [kawaisynths]" <kawaisynths@yahoogroups.com>
To: kawaisynths@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 23 December 2015, 13:11
Subject: [kawaisynths] k1rII fault ?
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hi everyone, new member :)
i just picked up a k1rII, which is in pristine condition. however its sound output
is a mess: no noise on outputs but i get crackling and i'm sure these aren't
how the waveforms are supposed to playback.
my patches from a memory card are a mess too.
is this a very sinister fault with CPU or DAC, or just a battery going flat?
if it's the 'bad' could it be caused by knock in transit? it came with original psu,
but that's no guarantee it hasn't been plugged into something else.
any ideas appreciated, thanks.
the 2nd issue is: i thought i was buying a regular K1r, not a mkII.
is this model the same bit-rate as the mark1? i read somewhere
that they went to 16bit, but wasn't that the K4?
(also thought i'd find fx on this one, but apparently that was only the kbd
version?)2015-12-23 by sghookings@...
Hi k9k9dog - I recognize you from EMU Samplers I think :-)
Small world
I have the K1r (since new) and a K4 which, with the help of Neil Johnson, I got upgraded to 1.4 ROM.
You are right - the K1 were 8 bit.
The K4 were 16 bit.
As for the sound, check the capacitor over the volume knob. There are some great references on the net - I think I added a post here too. What I did was to take a spare cap from my electronic bin, hold it over the tracks and hey-presto the volume of the K4 worked again. True mine was the other way around - with the cap broken it was full output but anyhow check this out.
If something worse has happened then too bad - however IF the aftertouch is working on the keyboard then console yourself you have a good action keyboard with a reasonable aftertouch - the K4 for example works beautifully with the EMU ESI and I believe you can zone the keyboard so you get to have more fun with the ESI.
I added some panels for Ctrl if you are interested for K1(r) and K4. One other chap improved on them but they can be found on Miniaktools site (my primitive version -
Miniak Hacks! ) or check out the Ctrl website direct for modified versions.
Hope you get your keyboards fixed in time for Xmas.
Regards
Steve H
2015-12-23 by sghookings@...
Dang - I was just finishing a bonfire - realise I misread your post .. You have the rackmount version so no keyboard ... apologies.
Kawai K1ii | Vintage Synth Explorer Kawai K1ii | Vintage Synth Explorer The K1ii was the first major update to Kawai's popular K1 digital PCM-waveform synthesizers. The K1ii
has the same synthesis architecture as the original K1.
Preview by Yahoo
So it is like my K1r but with some extra multi timbral.
In which case you will like the Ctrl panel -- much easier than squinting at the display.
It has no effects according to the above article - the keyboard had it. This is similar to the K4 v K4r.
The r instead had extra channels which you could put thru an effects unit.
It is true that the lack of effects is a bit of a bummer. But hardware is cheap these days or one can use DAWs.
I was going to sell my K1r until I wrote the panel for it ... then I realized thanks to other posts you can fake analog like synths out of it and the AM unit is real crazy. So it gets switched on a few times a month now.
2015-12-23 by domgoold@...
hi guys, thanks for quick response ;o)
hi Steve, yep, the same...
yeah, so i checked the headphone out, same deal.
i've emailed the vendor to find out if this was known about
before postage - it arrived in a freaky cardboard thing, not
quite a box (and still had cables plugged in, wdf...have neither
seen nor imagined that happening). was pretty sure i was getting
a mk1...
i'm hoping that the battery can't quite make it with restoring all params.
i bet if i look at the sysex sheet the names params come up early in the
list (hoho talking it up here, in desperate hope) - so i'm gonna have to rip
that m*tha out (face it,you can't desolder those things, they must use a
mig welder, i had to cut the contact pieces when i changed the battery in
the keyboard K1)
now here's the thing...i got the kbd K1 in one of those cashconvert places,
funkyjunk price, and evidently not highly-regarded by the kids who work there (suckers!)
(came with memory card, psu) - and i've been loving that lo-gloss, no filter, raw
digi thing, all the more since restoring patch storage, and thinking is the actual
keyboard+joystick part of the appeal/how you approach this thing. is it a k/board
i can live with?(i don't 'do' keyboards, for size+space reasons mainly)
i've got some stunning pad/string things on there now, -i'd pass up many things
to use some of those-, and oh, it does *great*...mallets :)
(in terms of the appeal of synths, how/why, you could almost lump it in with
analogs: "and here's easy-access raw digi"
so i'm thinking all this, and at the same time thinking meh, but it's got to go
(it isn't that big really, almost alpha juno1 size) and reading up on the racks,
thinking ok those are cheap and plentiful, i'll get one of those one day. read up
on K1/r/m/II, K4/r,xd-5..and there i see Polynominal saying the mkIIs have
' higher resolution'. somewhere else, someone says mk1s are 8bit, and IIs
are 16bit, as are K4. who said 12bit? so i'm unclear whether this is the
same machine. or if it really makes a difference. i do know that i like,within
reason/bounds, stuff i find on the K1 k/b, and its 'presence'. yes, it is additive:
check out how that sax patch is built. that's clever...and those 'iconic'
non-realistic sounds can work really well among other sounds.
so, then i saw this rack advertised and thought (ah check this out, never
happy, eh?) meh, it's only a mk1, but hey that's good, it's the 8bit one,
who needs multi outs and fx (thought the k1rII had fx as well, and yeah
multi-outs,excellent instead) - i started musing 'hey this thing is like a
multi-instance plugin...just stick it in rack and edit it remotely, and use
those parts, and get rid of the big keyboard gig - which isn't encouraging
multitimbral use much anyway...
and then i open the parcel and see...4 outs? hang on, look at front -absolutely
spotless- and it says k1rII - wa-heey! rejoicing, and at same time thinking
what about my 8bit synth, if this is 16bit? and seeing these f***en jacks sticking
out of it?!! chr*st...is it alright? it even had a midi cable plugged in(bent, thankfully
the socket is alright, it's the midi cable that's bent)
it sounds like crap. patches are semi-scrambled, crackling, with other wavecycles
appearing, loops going on. i'll record an audio demo of this condition later. patches
i made on the keyboard sound nothing like, a mess. impossible to make any
sound comparison, but...does it have the ooomph of the other one? i'm just
being paranoid. i got the 'better' model (more outs) and it's soooo clean, and i'm
stll not happy :) well, if i could get it to work...if it's got a fried CPU i won't be.
i'm still absorbing this fact, and placing my hopes on a change of battery. but no,
the keyboard worked+sounded fine with a dead battery. ...
damage in transit? damaged before shipping? hope not. battery battery..
it doesn't look like anyone's been in there trying to circuitbend it,either: *dustless*
APART FROM THAT (while i'm on the subject) *is there* a noticeable difference
in sound between mk1+2 due to a different bit rate/'resolution' ? (another new
synth myth) is it 8bit for K1, 12bit for K1II, 16bit for K4 ?
2015-12-23 by domgoold@...
there's no reset procedure for K1s. looked at Kawai site.
ah, but now i just googled it again, and found this:
KAWAI Europa GmbH
right, lets try this.
:O)
2015-12-23 by Samuel Cameron
further thought,,its always possible someonebotched up an attempted circuit bend and then
sold it on..a k1 is a very good circuit bend as i had my k1mdone and then bought a k1r and put same patcheson it so i could control the dry.wet balance..i suppose some internal power faults in componentscould account for the faults describedSam
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From: "domgoold@...m [kawaisynths]" <kawaisynths@yahoogroups.com>
To: kawaisynths@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 23 December 2015, 13:11
Subject: [kawaisynths] k1rII fault ?
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hi everyone, new member :)
i just picked up a k1rII, which is in pristine condition. however its sound output
is a mess: no noise on outputs but i get crackling and i'm sure these aren't
how the waveforms are supposed to playback.
my patches from a memory card are a mess too.
is this a very sinister fault with CPU or DAC, or just a battery going flat?
if it's the 'bad' could it be caused by knock in transit? it came with original psu,
but that's no guarantee it hasn't been plugged into something else.
any ideas appreciated, thanks.
the 2nd issue is: i thought i was buying a regular K1r, not a mkII.
is this model the same bit-rate as the mark1? i read somewhere
that they went to 16bit, but wasn't that the K4?
(also thought i'd find fx on this one, but apparently that was only the kbd
version?)2015-12-23 by domgoold@...
it is spotless inside, no sign of tampering.i'll have to take the board out
to change the battery, so i'll get a better look.
just ran some audio off onto a recorder of the way it is now.
sounds quite cool in a twisted way.
before possible eeprom update? this has 1.0 -latest is 1.3
that would reset it.
it says reset is done on each start.
2015-12-23 by bkolins@...
Hi-
I'd like to hear the audio. I've been following these posts because I'm hoping there's still help for my K1 II keyboard. At the moment it's nothing but a MIDI controller. There is some audio output, but doesn't sound anything like it should; lots of white noise, random uncontrolled modulation, and only a hint of what the patch is. I took it to get serviced and was informed that an unavailable proprietary chip has failed.
So I'm curious to see if your audio sample is similar. Let's hope not. Thank goodness I still have a working K1r II. :-)
~Brian
2015-12-23 by domgoold@...
oh.
yeah that's the worry.
i've had a reply from Kawai, with service tech contact.
i described the problem. i'll have to edit down the audiofile
a bit for some examples.
2015-12-23 by Daniel Forró
Hi everybody,
enjoy some Christmas music on my new YouTube channel if you
celebrate :-)
Daniel Forró - Forrotronics
2015-12-23 by Eldred Pickett
I have a K1II(keyboard version) that's acting the same way, so I'm looking forward to seeing the answer...
Eldred
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On Wednesday, December 23, 2015,
domgoold@... [kawaisynths] <
kawaisynths@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
hi everyone, new member :)
i just picked up a k1rII, which is in pristine condition. however its sound output
is a mess: no noise on outputs but i get crackling and i'm sure these aren't
how the waveforms are supposed to playback.
my patches from a memory card are a mess too.
is this a very sinister fault with CPU or DAC, or just a battery going flat?
if it's the 'bad' could it be caused by knock in transit? it came with original psu,
but that's no guarantee it hasn't been plugged into something else.
any ideas appreciated, thanks.
the 2nd issue is: i thought i was buying a regular K1r, not a mkII.
is this model the same bit-rate as the mark1? i read somewhere
that they went to 16bit, but wasn't that the K4?
(also thought i'd find fx on this one, but apparently that was only the kbd
version?)
--
U.S. Congress: The best politicians money can buy...
2015-12-29 by gonzinigonz@...
Just uploaded the service data for the K1 / K1II
Should help you out if you can make sense of it. I've got a K1r and a K4r. Done some work on the K1r, the K4r is broken, custom filter chip has failed :(
It does still work, just loud cracking noise on the filter with modulation.
2016-01-02 by domgoold@...
update: i tried a different K1 PSU that i know to be good, no difference,
so that's ruled out. stll making horrible glitchy sounds(some are quite
good but..not what i want)
no reply from kawai tech yet.
so next step is disassembly+examination.
if it's one of these big ICs, that's bad news. what could be done there?
or do i just flog it for parts? great shame, it's in such good condition.
wonder if the modern day midibox whizz's could do anything with a
digital synthesizer like this?
first want to try to get some normal behaviour out of it, it is useless
like this :(
2016-01-02 by Daniel Forró
You can find the OS version by pressing System button during power on.
Try to send to the instrument proper SysEx data file.
If it doesn't help, it's time to open it and check inside.
Try to disconnect, clean and reconnect all connectors, reseat all IC's
in sockets... This can help if it's just the oxidation.
Then check electrolytic capacitors, if some are bad, change them.
Check the PCB for cracks, or if there's nothing inside, some piece of
metal or so which can cause short circuit...
If it doesn't help, it's time for more detailed checking but it needs
proper tools and knowledge.
I couldn't find service manual, only not so good schematics...
Daniel Forro
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Jan 2, 2016, at 4:13 PM, domgoold@... [kawaisynths] wrote:
> update: i tried a different K1 PSU that i know to be good, no
> difference,
> so that's ruled out. stll making horrible glitchy sounds(some are
> quite
> good but..not what i want)
>
> no reply from kawai tech yet.
>
> so next step is disassembly+examination.
>
> if it's one of these big ICs, that's bad news. what could be done
> there?
> or do i just flog it for parts? great shame, it's in such good
> condition.
>
> wonder if the modern day midibox whizz's could do anything with a
> digital synthesizer like this?
>
> first want to try to get some normal behaviour out of it, it is
> useless
> like this :(
2016-01-02 by domgoold@...
yep already sent it factory sysex. might do it a couple more times, you
never know :) and OS is known, @ v1.0
so...i took it apart. there are 3 surfacemount big ICs on the underside, couple of
smaller CMOS. everythng spotless.
the battery seems still good, measuring 3.18v, -which i think is spot on?amazing
after 20+yrs.
only 1 eeprom in a DIL socket, and i did take it out, came out easily -maybe too
easily? i cleaned pins lightly and put it back in;
checked it, still has a scratchy sound. it's calling patches very well, mainly
recognisable.
so that's pretty much everything i can check myself. no scope+probe here, and
i wouldn't know where to look anyway.
? some ROM decoding or clocking issue?
i don'tknow how to check capacitors..
i think this fault is either minor, or something very specific (soz to state the obvious, haha)
but it isn't total chaos, and may even have improved slightly; i'm going to plug the Remote
into it with TC's Kawai K1 mapping and abuse it a bit.
i'm thinking, this thing got packed badly, and then flipflopped a few times on post office
conveyor belts( if you still imagine there's a nice careful chap picking up your precious
parcel and carrying it from A to B...) - tell'em: bubble-wrap or forget it !
2016-03-07 by domgoold@...
bump for info on faulty k1 IIs
?has anyone had any joy getting one back from glitchy state?
got hold of a regular k1r, but i'd really like to get the
4 outs.
2016-03-08 by bkolins@...
Nope. Given up. I'm getting it ready for the auction block.
2016-03-09 by domgoold@...
mm..for someone with the right skills...
at midibox.org or something?
if the mask eeprom(?)is the bad one
- *if that's the fault*
gotta put mine back together and try last ditch
2-way connected sysex dump...
what are you going to try to get for it in as is condition?
(providing cosmetically etc. ok, with manual+psu)
i'm pleased i have the k1r regular, anyway. it's what i
thought i was getting 1st time
("is it same bitrate?"...lol)
it is set up to be 'stereo/2x mono'. 4 would be better,
and the rhythm part could be nice (i like the gated snare)
