The Logic Off Topic list

>  1.  The issue in this conflict is clearly not energy consumption.


I agree.

>
> 2.  If you believe that the issue is distribution of wealth then you
> must remember that the wealth of the Arab world comes from US,
> Europe, and Japanese energy consumption...but I am very doubtful that 
> reducing the amount
> of money entering the economies of those countries would be of any
> particular benefit to their populations.

Agreed.

>   It would be nice see those
> countries investing in technologies that may be of economic use to
> them in a future where they have less oil to sell.  Maybe that is
> happening but I have not seen any examples.

In Dubai, the biggest production plant for th next "fuel" is being 
prepared. I can't think of the English name (or the chemical code), but 
I mean the clean 'fuel' which is extracted from water and which is said 
to be the energy source for the future. Reason why it's built there: 
first of all because Dubai is a place with a lot of sun (which, 
apparently they need for extracting it) and second because those 
oil-sheiks (sorry for the spelling) are investing an awful lot of money 
in it (together with Shell and other oil companies) to make sue they can 
still make money once the new energy source is the most important one.

>
>
> 3.  There are historical as well as geographical reasons why the US
> energy consumption is relatively high.  The US infrastructure was not
> built in a day. It has been developing over about a 100 year period
> during which energy was relatively cheap.  I have always thought that
> American automobile manufacturers could put more effort into
> increasing fuel economy of their cars.  In the past few years they
> have been doing better.  But the reasons for them doing so have very
> little to do with inherent morality just as the reasons why things
> are different in Europe have nothing to do with inherent morality
> which brings me to:

The reason is because fuel is much cheaper in the US.

>
>
> 4.  There are historical as well as geographical reasons why European
> energy consumption is relatively low.  European automobiles and
> peoples basic habits with regard to energy consumption have developed
> in an atmosphere where the cost of energy was relatively high.  But
> the reasons for them doing so have very little to do with inherent
> morality its mainly just a matter of history and economics.  Now it
> has become extremely convenient OTOH for Europeans to claim a
> position of moral superiority since they can do so without changing
> their habits at all and can conveniently ignore the fact that is was
> economy rather than environmental considerations that lead to their
> energy consumption habits in the first place.
>
> 5.  I live in Tokyo.  I am highly skeptical about any claims that
> Japanese energy consumption habits are better than those in the US.
> For example on a hot summer day there are sections of town where you
> can cool off just walking on the street in front off the large open
> store fronts where the cold air from the air conditioners just pours
> out on the street.  Several areas within Tokyo are about as bright as
> Las Vegas every night.  Most houses to this day do not have
> insulation in the walls.  I think people may put less miles on their
> cars because the streets are narrower and more crowded and it just
> takes longer to get anywhere.  I can't be sure about this though.
> Traffic is incredibly heavy I regularly see traffic jams even when I
> am taking a Taxi at 3:00 AM .  I take a train whenever I can but they
> stop running at about 12:30, since there are still a lot of people
> working and commuting after those hours IMHO a vast amount of energy
> could be saved just but running the trains and subways 24/7.
> Working in "show biz" as I do I am also skeptical of any statistic
> cited in the media because I have witnessed with my own eyes people
> "just making them up".
>
> 6.  The technology exists now to decrease energy consumption and do
> it in a way the will not have an un acceptable impact on peoples life
> styles.  I am all for that.  Promotion of these technologies should
> be a priority of western governments.  Bitching and whining about us
> being too rich and them being to poor will never work.   People like
> to be wealthy.  That won't change.  The realistic solution of the
> problem is to implement the technologies that allow people to live
> well with out living wastefully.  It's happening.  Slowly.
>
> 7.  I don't "know" what will be possible in the future regarding
> living standards but I do know that vast amounts resources are
> totally wasted on war, corruption, and repression.
> -- 
>



-- 
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

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