> >Dennis! > > > >The story glosses over the facts in hand. > > Really? I thought it was a rather accurate metaphor. really? you can say this in all honesty? > >You cannot deny the subtle > >interplay between nations over centuries. > > There was nothing subtle about the attack. Or the Taliban harboring > bin Laden and his camps. Or their constantly changing and totally > conflicting stories about their relationship with him. Agreeed nothing subtle about the attack - however there was a very subtle interplay of forces (discussion, agression, ignorance, jingoism) displayed in equal measure by all parties involved in the act (ie. attackers, attackee, bystanders etc...) > >By using the story to berate > >Yoonchi you do yourself an injustice and I would go as far as to say that > >you do a diservice to the memory of all those killed on Sept 11 and all > >those who will be killed stemming from these atrocities. > > Huh? I maintain that if anything should stem from the memory of those innocents killled then it should be discussion, concilliation and ultimately peace. I realise that it may be necessary to spill blood at some stage. I merely hope that this spilling will not be as a result of anger, mistrust or revenge but (and somewhat perversely perhaps) as a result of reasoned discussion to determine who (if anybody) be held responsible. A knee-jerk reaction is, I am sure, not the kind of memory that anyone would want attached to their death. During the height of the troubles in Northern Ireland many younf men were killed. The next day you would regularly see their mothers on TV begging people not to take revenge in the name of their sons that the only way forward was forgiveness, discussion etc... (as above) > >Debate and discussion are the lifeblood of society. If you conveniently > >disregard the facts - > > Again I think it was an accurate metaphor. What fact has been disregarded? > all the important points as discussed in this list and elsewhere - I would n ot include CNN or much of the media as good sources of information. Some sites of interest: http://www.thenation.com www.janes.com not definitive by any stretch (I dont have time right now to ferret out all the sites I have saved as bookmarks at the moment) . Read, discuss, follow hyperlinks - think about it (and by this I do not suggest that you are not thinking about it : ) ) I do not at any level condone what the Terrorists have done but the West must realise that it is responsible for creating hatred and intolerance in certain levels of Islamic society through certain attitudes, actions, and inactions. This does not imply that we deserve condemnation or death, it simply states that we have a responsibility to take on the elimination / transformation of those attitudes and actions which cause such an effect and to reach a compromise that will lead to understaning between us and the less developed world. The same is true for non-westerners. > >then at a basic level you are rejecting society, humanity > >and all those good things. > > How so? What did I miss. Yoonchi says what I see as reasonable > point of view is stupid. And so I beg to differ and use a > metaphorical story to illustrate my point. What is the fact I have > ignored. I'm sorry, I'm with Yoonchi on this one. > But I suppose that at this point this is all just rehash. And all > those who I have offended will be happy to know that, though I will > probably continue to be very angry for a very long time about what > happened to my compatriots, I will try to shut up about it here. You are entitled to be angry - just be sure who you are angry at and why. Nobody on this list wants to deny you that, but you must realise that they do want you to see another viewpoint that they know to be broader than the one you are discussing. > There is just one thing that I haven't said though. It was *not* > just an attack on us loud, naive, arrogant, evil, environmentally > hostile US cowboys. Take a look at your economies of the past weeks > and tell me otherwise. we were heading for a recession anyway, many major companies had decided to pull out of Ireland by February this year, mainly due to the fact that the ceiling on corporate tax had to be removed as we became integrated into Europe. A very bad thing in the short term, but I think a good thing all round.. I know America was having its problems too, just look at all the interest rate cuts this year - is it 9 now? regards and respect -- Mark Lennox Consultant ENDUSER Guinness Enterprise Centre Taylor's Lane Dublin 8 Ireland -- e-mail : mark@... phone : (+353 1) 4100 665 direct : (+353 1) 4100 707 fax : (+353 1) 4100 985 web : http://www.enduser.ie -- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Gunn" <mightyjohn@...> To: <logic-ot@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 6:30 PM Subject: Re: Attacking Afghanistan( was: Re: [L-OT] OT^2 - Thanks) > At 5:03 PM +0100 10/11/01, Mark at Enduser wrote: > -- > > > Dennis Gunn > Mightyjohn@... > > check out MIGHTY JOHN HENRY's album "hot air head" > info at > http://www.twics.com/~mightyjo/home.html > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >
Message
Re: Attacking Afghanistan( was: Re: [L-OT] OT^2 - Thanks)
2001-10-11 by Mark at Enduser