The Logic Off Topic list

On Thu, 11 Oct 2001 GAmoore@... wrote:

> >might be a small part of a much larger
> >American agenda in the middle east (not explained to the press for
> >political reasons)
> 
> I've noticed that people from repressive regimes often think there is a 
> conspiracy in everything. I think the "American agenda" is to maintain 
> stability in the region and prevent world terror. The various governments 
> have a secret plan to stay in power rather than be strung up by fanatical 
> mobs and have their countries returned to 5th century standards of 
> living. There it is, I let the cat out of the bag. Now you know the 
> secret motivation. Damn, I shouldn't have opened my big mouth. 

My response was to Dennis, who was confused about why anyone would find
his analogy to be a gross oversimplification of the political situation at
hand.  What I said was that it's naive to believe it's as simple as all
that... and it is.  There's a lot to the story beyond what they're telling
us in the press briefings, which isn't to say that there's a deliberate
conspiracy here... just that (among other things) there has to be a clear
and to-the-point statement of purpose and motive on behalf of the
government to its people for the purpose of gaining support for its
actions.  That statement is obviously not going to include (for any of
several reasons) long-winded detail clarifying the exact nature of the
conflict, all of our motives for overthrowing the Taliban and installing a
US-friendly government in its place (That some Muslims will surely see as
another "puppet"), the suspected master plans of various extremist
dictators that must be thwarted, a history of Islam since the Crusades,
what our relationship is with all these other middle-eastern governments,
etc., etc., etc... all very relevant and all very absent from too much
public opinion, discourse, and less-than-modestly suggested plans of
action.  (I heard one ex-military political commentator say the solution
to end terrorism is to /nuke/ Iran (!))

No, to hear the cheerleaders summarize it, faultless innocent USA suffered
a horrible unprovoked attack by misguided cowards, so we're bombing their
country because they won't surrender a suspect.  What's not to understand?

...Which means that there's going to be a lot of public discourse at a
level where participants aren't working with all the relevant 
facts...  because they haven't any insight on what's going on beyond what
they've heard from the political speeches and rallying cries from
public officials that have everything to gain from a supportive public in
accomplishing a long list of political ends (one of which, I concede, is
ending terrorism).

A lot of insight can be gained from listening to what political
commentators on all sides have to say about it... The history of the
conflict from several points of view, including (and perhaps most
importantly) those of the terrorist-sympathizers themselves.

Accepting a distorted, simplified version of the truth, and
underestimating what we're up against by failing to question and
investigate is as dangerous to our own proper understanding as it is to
that of the oppressed underclasses in the Middle East when they believe
unquestioningly the propaganda spread by bin Laden or the Taliban.
We've seen what they can do when they believe his simplified version
of what motivates US military action in the Middle East-- "infidels
declare war on Islam."  Of course, we don't believe we're declaring war on
Islam... any more than they believe they're declaring war on freedom.
These are just bullshit war cries, not explanations or just causes.
They're just there to get people to fight.  Not unlike kids on a
playground saying something like "Dude, did you hear what Mikey said about
your mom?  I'd kick his ass!"

"Dude, when bin Laden sent his cowards to destroy the WTC and the
Pentagon, he was attacking us because we're FREE!  Let's bomb his ass!"

"Dude, America is occupying the holyland, starving millions with an Iraqi
embargo, supporting Israel's terrorism of Palestine, and CRUSADING against
Afghanistan because they're trying to destroy Islam!  Let's Jihad!"

Both false, but both believed.  Both also succeed at motivating war.

-Denizen