The Logic Off Topic list

GA Moore wrote:
>My apologies to Koolmusic for my comments infering drug usage.
Thank you. They are appreciated.

>Some of the comments, which I found unfairly insulting to the US,
And ... which particular comments of mine were those?

>... seemed so far afield from reality in my view
then maybe it's about time you tried amending your view of reality instead 
of always trying to get others to amend theirs.

>that I wondered if mind altering substances were actually involved.
... well ... when someone does not exactly and always agree with you it's 
always a lot easier to insult them and attribute outrageous motives and 
attributes to them. Or ... was I supposed to take your earlier outburst as 
an example of rational debate?

>However, it was rude to voice this
And surely ... equally as rude even and ever to have had such thoughts.

>and I should not have made comments which sounded derogatory and kept my
>impressions to myself.
The impressions are totally erroneous. I have never in my life taken any 
mind-bending drugs. And I never will. Even though it is clearly your 
opinion, and that of a couple of others, that I am in deep need of them.

And ... as for 'comments which sounded derogatory', well if I really have 
made any such to you then I will similarly apologise. You obviously feel 
that there must have been some issued by me. You, for your part, did not 
have search very far to find remarks made to me that could have been 
considered derogatory to me. I, on the other hand, am searching extremely 
hard to find any of mine that were directed at you.

> >Soldiers have marched up to my home and placed me
> >under arrest. They imprisoned me and my sisters and my brother and my
> >mother and my father. They were foreigners, too. I was also very interested
> >in the make and model of their guns. That is my reality.
>
>I'm very sorry about that. I don't know where you live or what the
>circumstances were. But I am sure this was quite terrible.

Yes it is indeed a terrible thing. It happened to me and my family not once 
but twice. At intervals of just over 20 years apart. And both involving 
disputes over exactly who had won an election. This happened to us for 
doing nothing more than trying to establish a democracy. Do not even begin, 
kind Sir, to try and engage me in a debate about who exactly supplied those 
guns.

On the first occasion my family and I were fortunate that my father got 
word and managed to flee the country even as they came to our house for 
otherwise those soldiers would have shot the lot of us out of hand. They 
came 45 minutes after he left and there were such prayers that day that he 
could sneak over the borders way far to the north. His only crime was to 
have been foolish enough to have been elected to the Opposition and to have 
done his job. On the second occasion it was my mother and my sisters they 
got. That second coup had been planned for a while but my father had again 
had to leave the country on short notice, which the coup planners had not 
anticipated. All their plans were in place, however, and they went ahead 
anyway. Me ... I was in a fine university built by the very people who 
supplied those guns and doing a degree course that involved learning about 
peace and brotherhood to man. Let us just say that my father died in very 
mysterious circumstances and leave it at that, OK? That he simply is dead I 
accepted long ago. It took a lot of work but I learned not to be bitter 
about it. He was a most excellent father and I do my best daily to be a 
credit to what he taught me. And ... what he taught me he in his turn 
learned from the ancestors.


As for the perception of reality that I have and that you clearly find so 
disagreeable ... it is formed directly by the fact that I have smelled the 
blood of my fellows running in the streets. Not a nice thing. My perception 
of reality is formed by the fact that I heard bombs falling down all around 
me. I have had my back door shot in by soldiers with machine guns who then 
threatened to kill me if I would not immediately tell them what they wanted 
to know. They shot animals. They shot people. All around me. Arbitrarily. 
Not a nice thing.

And that, kind Sir, is where MY vision of how to conduct one's self in life 
comes from. I have no idea how your perception of reality has been formed. 
But that's where I got mine.



A while ago you told me that the wisest thing to do was to prepare for war. 
So ... I am assuming that you have now done your best to offer me your hand 
in sincere apology and hopefully in at least some semblance of friendship. 
What would you have me do now, then? Reject this and prepare for war?

I must confess, though, that I AM finding a small matter of trust a very 
hard thing to deal with right now. Can't say that I feel like trusting you 
very much right now. Why should I? I have had you insulting me insulting my 
parentage insulting my heritage and accusing me of drug-taking ... and I 
have had Dennis Gunn telling me to shove a thorn bush up my backside. Is 
that the kind of thing you want me to remember of Americans? Or would you 
really rather prefer it if I was gracious enough to set such things aside 
and just move right along to a brave new tomorrow?

I have read many of your emails. Clearly you love books and reading. It may 
come as a surprise to you, but so also do I. You are fortunate enough to 
live in a country where you can take books completely for granted. I come 
from a country where we cannot. To you, it is such a simple thing to go out 
and buy a book ... and not only buy a book, but know that what is between 
its covers is very likely to be truthful. (Setting the odd edition of The 
National Enquirer aside). I have not always had such a luxury.

I do know, though, that people have sacrificed their lives so that books 
containing truth and useful information can exist. Not too long ago a book 
by Salman Rushdie was banned in many places. Why, exactly, do you think 
that was? (A rhetorical question). And last year, or maybe the year before, 
a British author was taken to court for writing a book about Hitler and 
Nazi Germany and the Holocaust full of denials and apologetics and the 
plain misinterpretation of 'historical facts'. But that book was released 
into an environment where people had a very healthy respect for the power 
and sanctity of books. He was taken to court. He lost his case. Where I 
come from ... you can't trust books. And THAT'S when you can find them.

I was fortunate enough to be able to go to several Western (and 
non-Western) countries. And I have studied. I have read an awful lot of 
books. Probably as many as you have at least. We have probably even read 
many of the same books ... although, clearly, we have learned different 
things from them.

Like me, Prince Alwaleed bin Talal was educated in some fine Western 
universities. Mine were in the UK, his in the US. And he read them and he 
studied them. And he was not afraid to look the people who had written 
those books straight in the eye and say: 'I disagree with you on this 
point'. Would you really have it otherwise? What is the point of an 
education if one day a student cannot look at a teacher and say ... 'I'm 
very sorry but I disagree with you on this point'. And ... as Mr. Giuliani 
did to the Prince, so have you done to me. 'I'm very sorry GA Moore but I 
disagree with you on this particular point'. You had better get used to 
such statements because there's an awful lot more people where I come from 
who are going to lift up their heads from their books and say exactly that 
to you. All I can hope is that you will accord to them far better treatment 
than you have seen fit to accord me.

Yes Sir ... I have had soldiers shoot at my house and bombs fall out of the 
sky and seen human body parts flying and I have been mortally afraid for I 
have doubted that I would survive that day. It is not pleasant. Not at all. 
As you have said, it is a terrible thing. I would not wish it on anyone. I 
honestly and sincerely do not wish it on you either, kind Sir.

And what I have learned is that the hand of friendship and understanding 
should always be offered. Clearly, you have learned a different lesson.

Bombs falling out of the sky, though, is a daily reality for a few poor 
souls on this planet. And just look what has happened here in this forum. 
Just a few emails. That's all. Nobody marching upon your home. Nobody 
brandishing a bun at you. And look how you have felt it necessary to 
explode. Imagine what it is like for those who have to live with a lifetime 
of it.



So ... you have now offered me an apology. Well ... excuse me while I be 
just a tad uncharitable and ponder it's sincerity for a while for this is 
certainly an email at considerable variance with those I have seen come in 
from you over the last few weeks. It is possible that you are most sincere. 
But it is my right to judge this for myself ... and most especially so 
given the way in which you have qualified it. It is entirely possible, 
after all, that you have only offered this apology because there is a whole 
email group looking on and you know perfectly well that what you said and 
the way you said it did not make you Look Good ... and you know perfectly 
well it was most absolutely not an example of your much vaunted 'rational 
reasoning'. Probably, that is the only reason you have offered it. You sent 
me a one line private email a couple of days ago, after all, after I had 
remonstrated with you over another matter ... and there was not a HINT of 
an apology in that earlier one. So ... I am rather inclined to believe that 
the fact that this is a public arena is what lies at the bottom of this 
present one. I am perfectly entitled, thank you, to my own vision of 
reality and to my own tortuous brands of rational reasoning.

Probably, though, and in the end, I will come to accept its sincerity. 
However, I am still a bit close right now to the reality of what you said 
and the abuse you hurled at me. Give me a few days, however, and I am sure 
that your sincerity will come shining through. That's the kind of person I 
have tried to make myself to be.

I must say, though, that I am a lot more impressed with a War On Poverty 
and a War With Books and a War With Food than I am with any War On 
Terrorism. Seems to me that -- at least if MY personal life-experience is 
anything to go by -- the latter three kinds of wars are a lot more 
productive of human cooperation and kindness than the last of that group. 
They also overthrow despotic and tyrannical regimes a lot more effectively. 
But then ... what do I know? I am just an ignorant and primitive soul who 
needs a few lessons on shaping up his vision of reality a bit and so that 
he can 'get real' and 'grow up'.

And ... regarding a War With Books ... judging from the strong remarks you 
made earlier about the last US election and who won and who lost and who 
voted for whom, I am sure you will agree with me that there are a fair few 
citizens in the US citizens who would do well to read a few more books and 
have such a War directed at them.

Thank you for your apology, though. I am working very hard on accepting it. 
As I said, it might take me a while but I'll get there.

I do write a lot sometimes. It's just my way of dealing with reality. Nice 
thing about it is ... it doesn't leave trails of blood everywhere. And it 
doesn't make peoples rooves cave in. It just wears my fingers out.

Kool Musick
Keep Musick Kool


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