The Logic Off Topic list

>>wow; on a very basic level, i find myself somewhat stunned by your 
>>(?studious?) naivetE, here.....

>I may be naive, but I'm not so dense as to see that the longest running
>and most controversial spot in the world for the last half century has
>been Israel. 
i've no idea what you mean by 'longest-running', but i certainly agree w/you 
on 'most controversial'..... at least, insofar as 'western' interests are 
concerned.

>>b) to oversimplify, here; the brits offered what was purportedly 'their'
>>land 

>If so, why was their an armed conflict against the Arabs in the area 
>which drove them from their homes, and Jewish terrorist campagn against
>the British?
i said 'purportedly'; i can't presume to know.

>>to the jews --- a core of jews had already established themselves as 
>>settlers, there, struggling and *building* a communal/democratic society
>>for 
>>some time.

>Small numbers were welcomed by the arabs, until they decided to overwhelm
>their hosts.
okay!
it *sure* is great to have the facts, then!
ahhh, expert opinions.....
*-0

>>but, why *would* they go back to what were once their 'homes'?, when:
>>a) they had nothing left, there, & there were certainly no welcoming arms,
>>b) they hadn't been allowed 'citizenship' in germany until the late 
>>1800's, & 
>>then only when they accepted government-issued last names which clearly
>>marked them as 'outsiders' --- even those who were 'culturally assimilated',

>Japanese and Asians were not allowed to become US citizens easily. In 
>fact, many of the "Japanese Americans" rounded up and put into camps in
>the Western US, were technically "Japanese" citizens. However, even with
>all the hatred directed toward them, they stayed, they rebuilt, they went
>on with their lives, and became wealthier on average than white Americans.
while i can't deny that the internment camps in the usa were an atrocity in 
their own right, i would say that there's no direct analogy between the 2 
situations, esp. given the really, really long history of anti-semitic 
sentiment & action.

>>c) most of them had been hounded from place-to-place in the region for
>>generations-upon-generations

>They seemed to have fairly stable lives up until 1930s.
huh? you and i clearly have *very* different  life-experiences.
if you are as interested in all this as you *seem*, it might be edifying for 
you to befriend some european & ex-european jewish, rom & armenian families 
in order to get a sense of their 'internal' histories.

>>d) there was the promise of a 'new beginning', somewhere?

>Because that somewhere was not theres to take or to be given.
me? i can't really justify that, either, and i didn't --- but, again, i don't 
presume to judge based on my limited knowledge.
my wife (who is iroquois) feels much the same about your forebears, who took 
america lock, stock & barrell; i don't think she holds you personally 
responsible, though..... 

>>there are *hundreds* of authoritative books and articles 
>>available on this intensely complex subject --- if you're truly curious,
>>there is a wealth of materials available for your edification.

>Like that piece that Tiran sent around? Are these "authoritative" books
>written to justify the unjustifiable?
i don't know who tiran is, nor what was sent. i'm not trying to justify 
anything, certainly not the existence of israel, of which the events 
surrounding its inception--- again --- i don't really understand.
i *was* trying to offer some insight into other people's experiences, which 
you seem inclined to rigorously deny --- what's up w/that?
best,
splattercell