The Logic Off Topic list

Tony Thompson wrote:

>I wasn't being entirely serious at all
LOL! OK!! I'll work upon my humour more!!!

>As for my own pedigree, my mother's side were all staunch British
>establishment-hating Irish Republicans,
Well I'm not Irish Republican but I'm with you on the rest.

>I hope you'll see that with this kind of
>background I find the whole area of national identity and culture absolutely
>fascinating and feel very much that current UK culture, for all its faults,
>does allow me to celebrate my differentness along with all the other people
>in my country from diverse backgrounds.
Good thing.

>I probably overreact unconsciously
>to perceived lack of understanding of the UK
I think so, actually!!

>because I feel there is so much
>to celebrate here which people should know about
Agreed.

>- so I'm sorry if I've
>offended anyone on this list in the process. It amounted in my mind to no
>more than gentle teasing.
Well ... I'm a British citizen and I do understand the annoyance of those 
things, but I must honestly say that that story you told about the Scottish 
Borders and about that lad's US school teacher asking whether or not that 
was 'his' castle in the photograph ... that did not read to me like 'gentle 
teasing' ... It read like you were a bit narked, actually ... and trying 
very hard to make a point. But ... maybe that was just me.

>Nonetheless, I feel that  at this time we all ought to be learning more
>about each other and talking to as many people as possible and clearing up
>as many misconceptions as possible.
Yup.

>Even if this process is uncomfortable at
>times it comes way ahead of dropping cluster bombs or sending anthrax
>through the post in my book.
Double yup.


>.. Trinidadian musician friend ... Louis Farrakhan ... Buddhist ... Reiki 
>healing. Maybe I'm weird and off
>the wall, but I'm reasonably happy with it.
Good kind of weird IMO!!!

>My view is that British people not knowing about the outside world is
>something we really have to work hard on when we have such comparatively
>good access to information about other cultures.
That much is true. Most UK citizens apparently still don't know which one's 
Belgium or Norway when confronted with a map.

>Well, joke taken, the general infatuation of UK opinion makers and leaders
>with US attitudes does seriously concern me,
Agreed

>though I'd also be concerned if
>they were infatuated with the EU
Some are

>or the Organisation of African States...
What's wrong with that!!!!! (Another joke, OK??!!!)

>we need to be working out our own set of ideas, not being point man for George
>W. Bush or anyone else in the diplomatic jungle.
Agreed.

>Well yes, my problem is basically that I'm just not interested in that kind
>of big macro picture of itself,
Nowt wrong with that.

>whereas you clearly are to some extent.
Yup.

>This comes of over exposure to politicos and regular TV documentary exposes
>of  another crisis in something or other.
No it doesn't. It comes from being interested, in a different kind of way 
from you, in the world around me. Why the put down?

>I suppose I have a feeling when
>people bring out sets of facts like that that the next step is going to be
>'something must be done'
Did I ever say anything REMOTELY like that?

>because I've heard it so many times before,
Agreed.

>when to
>me the answer is clear - that everything in the end comes down to the
>individual and his responsibility for his own actions.
That's more my way of thinking. Doesn't change my interest in the fact that 
Britain is a slowly changing society which inevitably means that the 
proportions of people doing this and that is changing. More women and 
Indian and Pakistani and Serbian MP's, musicians, doctors and everything 
else is a sign of a changing society. Personally, I applaud it. The fact 
that I like to keep my eye on the numbers and the distribution of wealth 
and power that goes with it in no way means that when I relate to someone, 
such as you, I am doing so because I have some kind of pet peeve or axe to 
grind. I'm doing my best to relate to you in the same way I do to everyone 
else. On a personal level and as a simple result of what comes up.

>My prejudice, totally
>- I was reading more into what you were saying than was there.
Oh. Should have read this bit first. Yes ... you were reading way more into 
what I said than was there.

>Well, here I'd have not so much to disagree with you as to suggest that he
>was far more influenced by the general leftwing climate of the times,
Could have been, and probably was, a mixture of both. Only Peter Gabriel 
could answer ... and even then he might not really know!!!

>where
>being working class was a little flag you could wave about to excuse all
>kinds of inverted snobbery and handing over responsiblity for your life to
>other people -
I do not approve of these kinds of excuses. Nonetheless, when e.g. I got to 
University, I couldn't help but notice how few other Africans were there. 
Obviously, I had worked very very hard to get there and I wouldn't for one 
moment want it any other way. Nevertheless, it's still IMO pretty 
ridiculous for anyone to suggest that there are no institutional obstacles 
to Africans and West Indians entering university rampant in British 
society. An example would be that ridiculous teacher who with one half of 
her brain honestly thought I'd learned my impeccable English in five hours 
flat on the plane on the way over to England with one half of her 
brain  ... but who then proceeded to treat me, with the other half of her 
brain, as if I was stupid because I simply had to be having just come over 
all fresh from the jungle.

>So, Kool - are we any closer to understanding each other here?
Yup. Basically, we're in firm and absolute agreement that the best way to 
change society is for each individual person to deal with their own lives 
and not to priss about with 'general trends' or any such guff. 
Additionally, I am interested in counting up numbers and trends whereas it 
doesn't appeal to you much. That about right? (Except, of course, for my 
subsidiary and unspoken question of trying to understand the nuts and bolts 
of where people are to get their ideas on what to do next from if it isn't 
from occasionally thinking about general principles like 'be good to your 
neighbour' and asking themselves if they've really done enough seeing as 
how things haven't changed much around them!!!)

>I've just finished an experimental remix of a Nigerian songwriter's
>  track ahead of time,
I'm curious. Who?

>  so this string of cross purposes can't have totally used up my
>energies!
OK. Next time I promise I'll try a lot harder to totally mess up your head 
and render you unable to do any work, OK!!!!!!!

Kool Musick
Keep Musick Kool


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