The Logic Off Topic list

Hi Joeri,

As a result both of Dennis Gunn's recent post and Col Bernau's earlier
response to Raymond's announcement of his departure, I had quite literally
given up on the Logic lists and quite literally only come back to my PC to
unsubscribe from them. As I said in my most recent posting, this is the
third time that I have come here in an attempt to be a member.

> I'd like to ask everyone's personal opinion. I'm not going to start this
> discussion on the LUG or we'll g et into trouble. :-)
I think it very significant, actually Joeri, that you have yourself stated
that you are not willing to start this kind of discussion on the LUG because
of the trouble it would cause. That, surely, is the only answer you need to
your own question. Although only an amateur I own quite a few pieces of soft
and hard ware and so am subscribed, under on nom-de-plume or another, to
several lists and forums. Of them all, this LUG is by far the most
intolerant and has by far the most unacceptable noise to signal ratio.

> Should I moderate harder on the LUG?
For a while ... yes I think so. I say only for a while because it does not
take people long to learn the kinds of lessons Phil has just learned.
Eventually, the character of a list is preserved by its members who make it
clear to each other what they will and will not tolerate.

> Problem is that before I can put
> someone into moderated mode, he has posted already.
This, in itself, does not matter -- because people will see the RESPONSE
immediately, and so even new members will come to understand what is and is
not to be accepted and/or tolerated.

> E.g.: should I moderate every time the PDF, crack and dongle threads pop
> up? I'm willing to do so, but I don't know whether the list wants me to.
Absolutely. Even though I have joined and left twice before, those topics
have come up so often and to no good purpose that even I am tired of them.
What it must be like for those who have been on this list for years and
years I can only imagine.

Would it not be a simple matter to put up a web page somewhere so that any
and everyone on the list can immediately direct people to that list as soon
as one of those truly interminable subjects comes up?

> Let's hear some opinions on it.
Well ... you're getting mine!!

> I have to say though that I already moderate quite a lot.
I'm sure you do. And, actually, although I am in the middle of complaining
please could I take this opportunity to thank you for the efforts you make /
have made to start and keep this list going.

> There is e.g.
> no way spammers can get in or banned people can reports their offensive
> mails... all of that is impossible on this list.
This is good

> I needs a lot of work,
> but I've been able to stop a nice amount of offensive mails already and
> that keeps me going.
Again, thank you.

In essence, and for what it's worth, if you want a quality product then you
have to put time into it. I regret to say, however, -- and I am only saying
because I think I can say it and feel that it would be heard
constructively -- that the standard of debate on this list, and the
interminability, unconstructiveness and repetitiveness of some of the topics
debated, and the manner in which those things are debated, is depressing to
say the least.

It would be very hard work for you for a while to change the Logic list so
that incidents such as we have had do not occur.

For my part, I am now filled with hope that you should post such an email
and will hold in abeyance my earlier decision to resign. You have my
complete support in in trying to change the character of this list, and if
there is anything I can do to assist you then I promise you that I will do
it with enthusiasm.

Thank you very much for your efforts.