The Logic Off Topic list

Joeri Vankeirsbilck:

> Should I moderate harder on the LUG?

Well, I have just now made the decision to unsubscribe, so take what I'm
saying FWIW.  It was frustrating and hard to sort through already.  Now, I
have to say, I'm taken aback and repulsed by the determination of the
faction bent on making the LUG a safe haven for intolerance - malicious or
inadvertent - masquerading as humor.

In the past few months, we've been treated to defenses of insensitive
commentary involving misogyny, rascism and nazism as "just jokes."
Jokes, yes but... "just" jokes, no.  I happen to believe that this sort of
boorish garbage is not acceptable in civilized society.

So in response to John Matthews query, "hey,  Marv, how'r u doin?" the
answer is: not so great.  Sick and tired of being sick and tired.  Ready to
move on.

Joeri, I value and appreciate your efforts.  Thank you for all that you've
done.  I regretfully withdraw my offer of assistance.

> Problem is that before I can put
> someone into moderated mode, he has posted already.

I don't think that's a big deal.  Most of the bandwidth abusers are repeat
offenders.  Perhaps you could announce the closing of a thread, or the
shunting of a thread to the OT list, and that anyone who posts further in
violation of your decision will be placed in moderated mode.  Then, do it.

> E.g.: should I moderate every time the PDF, crack and dongle threads pop
> up? I'm willing to do so, but I don't know whether the list wants me to.

The more moderation the better.  All that you can stomach.  The more that
you do, the better the list will be.

> Let's hear some opinions on it.

I think that it's unfortunate that you chose to belittle KA B in your
attempt to close off the thread:

from Joeri's earlier LUG post...
> That doesn't mean everyone should be moaning about it for the rest of their
> lives.

The person responsible for the ruckus was Phil Angus (did Len Sasso make a
good call, or what?).  The person with the power to heal the group and end
the discussion was Phil Angus.  And much to his credit, he rose to the
challenge (thank you, Phil!).  Therefore, pressure should have been applied
to PHIL from the very start.  Comments such as the one he let fly will
inevitably result in indignant replies.  Some of them will be furious and
hot, such as Santi's.  If you are _lucky_, you see a level-headed,
conciliatory post such as KA B's.  Why rebuke him, for goodness sake?

If the list is to be free from controversies such as the one that just
rocked it, it will be due to one of two things: effective moderation that
weeds out posts such as Phil's before they can do any damage, or a consensus
on the part of active posters that offensive behavior is unacceptable.  The
consensus of the active posters to the LUG seems to be quite far from that
at present.  It seems that great value is placed by many on the ability to
make offensive jokes in a public forum without being subjected to the
discomfort of hearing protest from the offended parties.

Aside from the fact that I find this personally repugnant, I believe that it
dooms the list to an unending onslaught of unwise wisecracks followed by
heated debate.  I have done what I could to nudge the list away from this
path, but it is time for me to admit that the culture of intolerance in the
LUG is firmly entrenched, and that many of the poeple who might once have
helped to change that have been driven away.  Add my name to theirs.

-- Marvin Humphrey
Mastering Engineer and Graphic Designer, emeritus
Mr. Toad's, San Francisco, California, USA
CD design website - http://marvin.mrtoads.com