The Logic Off Topic list

> >Those, that like you do not
> >understand trance, will be agreeing wholeheartedly with what you have
said.
> >And the other camp, which has been able to grasp the concept, will
probably
> >be thinking: 'If only he knew'.
>
> Can you explain the deper understand for us heathen then? It sounds good -
I
> hear beats, and synth parts coming in,  and dropping out. There is stuff
> going on. Its hypnotic. But what is so special about all that?

Looking at my post again, that "grasp the concept" bit seems a bit
rude/patronising and was not what I really meant to say. I'm sorry if you
found that at all offensive.  It should have been "And the other (probably
very small) camp, which has been fortunate enough to hear the music in the
right circumstances (large soundsystem, crowd, dancing, MDMA in the
bloodstream etc...) will probably be thinking 'If only he knew'"
Almost anyone in those circumstances should be able to understand the true
_purpose_ of  Trance music.  It is a tool to reach a euphoric/spiritual
state of mind on the dance floor, nothing else.

The commercial trance you have probably been listening to is often just a
tool that  record companies/artists  use to cash in on the scene.

Listening to good trance at home on a pc is not a misuse, but maybe an
impotent use of it.  The other required factors (listed above) are not
there, so the desired effect is not reached.   The exception being for those
people who have danced to the music at a club and then get the feeling
return to them on listening again at home.   There is a movie called Human
Traffic which conveys the whole experience and lifestyle very well,  I
highly recommend watching it.  The trance music in it is well chosen.

>A good "song"
> has those same qualities - with less hypnosis. My view is that its nice,
but
> not that rapture you're making it out to be.

Trust me,  a good song as you put it,   has none of required qualities that
trance has.   They are like chalk and cheese.    I play conventional 'good
songs' at home, saving the trance for parties and clubs.   Most days I will
listen to classical, dinner jazz, Brazilian vintage samba/MPB, chillout and
even a little 'pop'.  Very little rock oriented music thought,  not since my
teenage years and I'm 28 now.  Starting clubbing in 1991 finished all that.

>Its like a Led Zeppelin fan
> saying ... its so wonderous how Jimmy Page plays a Les Paul on some songs,
> and a Telecaster on others - you can tell the difference in the sound, but
> overall the average listener doesn't know or care. Certainly the
differences
> don't merit a new name of music  - "Humbucking Zep" versus "Single Coil
Zep".
> Obviously you (Hector) are an expert in this music. I'm just wondering if
the
> distinctions are similarly subtle.

There are all the same subtleties and nuances in good trance that can
inspire in a very similar way.   I can thing of no other music that makes
such use clever use of carefully crafted timbres.  A great example would be
the sound emitted by the Roland TB-303 bassline. I have used many clones
both in hard and software forms and none have the class of the real thing.
But, as in the example you give, it is not that important to the listener.
The quality of the overall composition being the real issue.

> The only dance song that can think of that has a real emotion moment is
BT's
> Hip Hop Phenomenon....where it builds and then has a break.

A strange choice for me.  Whilst I greatly admire BT's skill in the
construction of that tune and similar ones on the Movement In Still Life
album I do not believe it would cut the mustard on a trance dancefloor.  I
do not find it emotionally rousing, rather just impressive.   It is a
'Breaks' tune anyway, not trance.   Some of the more '4 to the floor' tracks
on the album would fare better and are more emotive to me.   If you have not
done so already you should really give his 'ESCM' album a listen as I feel
that is much more of a landmark piece of work.   It has pictures of
monoliths on the cover and I think he is fully justified in putting them
there. There is also a real stunner called 'Divinity' on his first album
'Ima'.   Shows his musical tallent and genius to the full.  These songs are
still a little soft sounding for todays trance lovers.   I wish so much he
would produce some harder stuff.

Trance needs to be full of sonic energy and rising spiralling synth riffs
that lifts a crowd and sends them hurtling throught fractal galaxies in
their minds.  It's not called 'trance' for nothing. Without wanting to sound
like a hippie,   it is truly mind expanding and the greatest form of
hedonism/escapism that has ever existed.  It can all be achieved over a
weekend with little effort involved.   Such is the intensity of it, new
inexperienced clubbers will often often get themselves into trouble by doing
it every weekend.   After a few months their bodies and minds begin to let
them know  that they should slow down.   Wiser and more experienced clubbers
will go partying maybe just once a month.  The golden rule has always been
'Less is more'.   I have been doing it for ten years and have never felt
better.

Sometimes my enthusiasm gets misinterpereted as a 'holyer than thou'
attitude.  I hope you have not thought that.  I have tried to convey what I
know but it is not an easy subject to explain.   I certainly know that if
someone had tried to explain it all to me before I started,  I doubt they
would have given me an accurate picture.

regards Hector.