The Logic Off Topic list

Hector

You justify almost everything you do by what the punter wants!
It's good of you to justtify fraud. In my experience in europe, the 
average punter did not know that almost everything they were 
seeing when they went to see a "live" gig, was faked!
Why not advertise it truthfully?
Something like.... come see the faces of the people who made
these tracks, stand in front of you and pose and pretend their 
playing live while they play the record in the backround.....
But i guess that wouldn't bring in the same crowds....so
that would be unnacceptable for you....
It's all about large crowds =ing "good" in your opinion???
Large crowds used to gather for public executions....
According to your logic, because large crowds would attend, 
maybe we should bring back the public executions.....
Think of it, you could dj at the gig, make a few bucks and satisfy
the publics wants all at the same time.
Mcdonalds and nike need your morals now!
I would post your resume ito them f i were you.

john
 


--- In logic-ot@y..., "Hector" <hector@n...> wrote:
> > quote from hector <Dance music is totaly preprogrammed
> > most of the time and cannot be played live. Those that
> > attempt to play live, offer music that is way below
> > the standard of their vinyl releases thus
> > dissappointing the audience...>
> >
> > ... you won't mind if i disagreee with you here
> > hector? :)
> >
> 
> Of course I don't mind!   However, in that quote I  should have 
said :
> '...and cannot _easily_ be played live. _Most_ of those that 
attempt to...'
> 
> > i have seen many live techno acts and most of them
> > have been extraordinary!
> >
> 
> Yes, there are some that are live, and some that appear to be 
live.  But how
> many are really live? And what is 'live' in a dance music context 
anyway?
> 
> > take, for instance, underworld (probably the best live
> > band of this ilk that i've had the pleasure of
> > seeing). they agree on an opening track before hand
> > and then improvise the set-listing and the tracks as
> > they go along. tracks can merge into other tracks,
> > parts that were never there on the vinyl versions are
> > added and the whole vibe is like nothing i've ever
> > seen! no two gigs are ever the same.
> 
> Yes I have read a good Sound On Sound interview with 
Underworld and in it
> they show off their live rig.   It cosists of  a _lot_  of gear,  
requiring
> roadies,   all way too expensive for the average underground 
producer.
> 
> > then you have people like orbital (who i saw only a
> > couple of weeks ago!) who most fans would agree are
> > better live than on record...
> 
> Again, bands such Orbital, the Chemicals etc... have got the 
money.   Even
> then, when I heard the Chemicals live 2 years ago at 
Glastonbury I thought
> they were dreadful, and nothing like their records.  Some 
drums and two
> analogue synths being tweaked live for an hour.  About was 
about as
> interesting as watching paint dry,  they need not have bothered.
> 
> > you might have heard of pob? (on platipus records) ...
> > seen them play a blinding live set too!
> 
> Yes,  I have a few of their records.   Unless you are a close 
friend of them
> I don't see how you can be 100% sure that they are totally live.   
Bands
> always say they are live.   It is very easily to create an 
impression of
> being live by showing a sequencer with a moving time-line.   
How many
> bounced down audio tracks are they allowed before it is no 
longer live.
> There could be an audio track playing the whole song bounced 
down,  how
> would you know?   It's a damn sight less risky for them than 
relying wholely
> on a load of midi gear.
> 
> A few years back when I was booking dj's and 'live' acts for a 
weekly night
> at Heaven in London,  I saw loads of different ways of faking it.   
These
> were underground bands that did not have the money for a live 
midi setup,
> that sounded like their records and would not fail on them.  It 
was and
> still is just not viable unless you are one of the bigger fish.   Not 
a
> single act I booked turned out to be totally live.   The crowd 
danced and a
> good time was had by all.   If somebody had started running 
round the stage
> pointing their finger shouting "Your not live! Your not live!" 
would anyone
> in the crowd have really cared? Demanded their money back? I 
doubt it.
> They would probably have told him to shut up and dance.   In 3 
years and 150
> odd acts we never received a single complaint.  Some might 
say it is a
> deception,  but I think not.  The punters are not stupid,  most I 
talked
> with understand that live dance music is way more difficult and 
fraught with
> problems than with other non-programmed music styles.  
Given the choice
> between seeing a good dance band playing off dat/partially live 
and not
> seeing them at all, virtually people all I am sure would choose 
to see them.
> 
> The only major band we had was Apollo440 and they invited 
themselves to
> promote a new single.   I didn't really think their music was 
close enought
> to what we usually played, but we said yes anyway.  We didn't 
have to pay
> them and they were only doing 2 songs.   I can tell you half of 
Sony Music's
> technical division came down.   The stage was _full_ of gear,  
the
> dancefloor, which is not big,  had a huge engineers platform in 
the middle,
> snakes all over the floor.  All that money and manpower just for 
2 songs
> that turned out to be less than impressive.  Even the sound 
quality was no
> better than any of our other bands.
> 
> > honourable mentions also go out to spooky, system 7
> > (who improvise guitar and synths whilst dj-ing),
> > pychick warriors of gaia, fluke, speedy j, the aloof,
> > red snapper and many more.
> 
> The odd live synth noise, allows the band to say they play 
some live synths.
> A few drum pads and a guitar are also common ways of 
boosting 'live'
> credibilty.   Those big fish bands you list above will have 
varying degrees
> of liveness, but there is no clear distintion between what is truly 
live and
> what is not.  Does a couple of improvised instruments over a 
backing track
> constitute 'live'?
> 
> So to sum up:
> All dance bands want in their hearts to play live.   A lot can't 
because
> they do not have the resources/roadies for a big, reliable and 
musicaly
> faithful rig.  A lot of bands are in that grey area inbetween 
bounced audio
> track/DAT and midi/live instruments.
> Whatever they are doing, only a po-faced party-pooper would 
go round
> scrutinising their rigs and kicking up a fuss.
> 
> regards Hector.