The Logic Off Topic list

--- In logic-ot@y..., "Hector" <hector@n...> wrote:
> > Is it just possible that you are by degrees a victim of the 
emperers new
> > cloths? That if one took e's in a math class they
> > might also experience a trance?
> 
> Don't be silly. I merely suggested that they greatly affect the way 
the
> music is perceived.  Nothing more.  It is 10 years down the line 
now since I
> started clubbing.  Any naive illussions I may have had, have 
long gone.
> Doesn't it say something that after all this time I still have such 
great
> enthusiasm for it all?

It simply says that you have great enthusiasm for it. That's all.
Just like all the boy bands and girl bands that continue to fester 
and multiply for the last 10 years, something that sticks around 
does not  neccisarily = good....... 


> > Your right, there is "some" good trance,
> > like there is "some" good in almost any music or musical 
concept!
> > But basically i find most trance and techno heads to
> > be pretty small minded. They inflict their imagined little
> > dance club rules onto themselves and onto each other. It's a 
peer
> > pressure thing. The reality is, a bunch of computer geeks
> > got a hold of sequencers and the lack of depth to their
> > musical abilities and depth of their computer abilities left 
them with
> > default minimalism.
> 
> You get all sorts of people in the club scene, it is very big after 
all. It
> would be small minded of you to generalise or tar everyone 
with the same
> brush.   Were individuals.  Nobody follows a set of rules laid 
down by
> anyone else.

Not true as the rest of your post makes quite clear, you follow the 
rules yourself and you do it because you think it's  quite 
"practical".
You figure out what others want , ie clubs or the punters, and 
cater to the lowest common denominater sort of like mcdonalds
marketers.

 
> > In general i find almost all of the little sub genres
> > of techno laughable. Change the feel of the high
> > hat and rename the genre sort of stuff. It's all about over 
defining,
> > so that the defining justifies the lack of inspiration. And voilla
> > we have over defined disposable music that's often concept 
justified only,
> > rather than substance justified.
> 
> The sub genre names are just descriptions to allows people to 
know what is
> being talked about.   They have no actual effect on the scene.   I 
do not
> see how a loose description such as 'energy trance'  can 
seriously affect
> the way anyone actually writes it.

Then you must not have been very into the scene the last 10 
years. It was lawbreaking to use a guitar until just recently??
> 
> 
> >   By the way, Kids dance. Kid's have always danced. Kids like 
to think
> > their into something new. Kids have always liked to think
> > they were into something new. Because lots of kids dance to 
trance
> > does not mean that the bulk of it is good. Although i know that 
most
> > conservative people these days think that "success equals 
good", remember
> > that there have also been alot of successful fascists who 
were supported
> by
> > the bulk of their populations.
> 
> This statement is in total agreement with stuff I wrote in earlier 
postings.
> Read my posts again.  I have to listen to 10 records to find one 
good one.
> 
> 
> > I find your comment that you wouldn't play this or that
> > out at a club very typical. Why not? You might break a "club 
rule"????
> > Don't you have different spontanious moods thru out a night? 
Can't you be
> > true to yourself rather than true to a invented genre??
> 
> Firstly clubs have music policies.  Crowds expect certain types 
of music.
> You play what you perceive _they_ want to hear.  Only a detroit 
techno dj
> would be so self-important and arrogant to think that they could 
play
> anything and to hell with what the crowd wants.  If a crowd 
doesn't like the
> music policy of  a club there are plenty of others that will offer 
what they
> want.   When I say that I would not play something at a club, I 
am talking
> about just those clubs _I_ play at.  I am not saying that it is not 
suitable
> for any club.   8 years of dj'ing experience has taught me what 
music the
> crowds I play to are more likely to enjoy.   The example I gave 
before was a
> BT track.   I personally would not play it because it a breaks 
tune, not
> trance.   The last time I tried to play some breaks to a trance 
crowd,
> people came up and suggested that I stick to trance.   I am one 
of the more
> adventerous dj's when it comes to trying out new stuff on a 
crowd,  but
> ultimately I follow their wishes.

Exactly!!!!!!!
You follow.......their wishes.....like a good marketer......
Not your own.......
Where's your creativity?

 
> > I was in europe in the early 90's, having electronic dance 
guys
> > come and borrow my adats so that they could make people 
think
> > that the led's on them were actually doing something while
> > they played a dat in the backround....lol ..fraud......
> 
> Well I can tell you that people in the crowd don't give a flying 
f***.
> Only people in the music industry seem to care about that one.    
I know
> bands that play off DAT and they have never received any 
complaints from
> people in the crowd.  Dance music is totaly preprogrammed 
most of the time
> and cannot be played live.    Those that attempt to play  live, 
offer music
> that is way below the standard of their vinyl releases thus 
dissappointing
> the audience.  As long as the audience is happy, all the other 
critics can
> go to hell.

Exactly again. Mcdonalds for the masses. HIp Hip Hooray!
If people will eat it, then we'll sell it!
 
> >  I absolutely beleive that there is good music to be found
> > in trance, and i absolutely beleive that by and large most
> > of it is shite!
> 
> 90% is shite agreed.   The remaining good 10%  accounts for 
maybe 30-40
> records a week and is plenty enought to keep the scene going.
> 
> >I watched a couple of friends pump out dance
> > singles in a weekend just to get the 1000 pound checks.
> > And they were considered very credible, lol...., if you only new 
how
> > little they cared!
> 
> Again, it would be small minded to believe that everybody has 
this cynical
> approach.   I believe most do it for the love of it and get little 
financial reward.
 
> 
> > A good song or good music has nothing to do with whether it
> > has this or that in it! Vocals no vocals, analogue or digital.
> > Remember when all the techno producers blathered on and 
on about
> > analogue???
> 
> ??? This is in total agreement with stuff I have already wriiten.  
Re-read
> my posts.
> 
> 
> > I like rebellious music, music without laws. Music that uses, 
or doesn't
> > use, any tool at any time without being restrained by some 
pointless
> attempt
> > to fit into neat little (and i mean very little) sub genre boxes.
> 
> I don't know why you think trance should be rebelious.   It is 
simply a tool
> with a job to do and it does it very well.

I don't think of music as being utilitarian and with a job to do.
It's this sort of attitude that i find profoundly conservative!

   You seem to be very hung up on
> 'sub genre boxes'.   I can assure you that they do not influence 
anything.
> They are merely a means of description.

There mundane and self important with no substance to back 
them up. 
 
> > I say To hell with all the little conservative sub genre stuff. 
How bout
> > really being free and just playing and writing anything you feel 
like at
> any
> > time, instead of playing with self imposed rules to make the 
conservative
> > kids happy??? What do ya say Hector?
> 
> Your free to write what you want.  So is everybody else.   There 
are no
> lemmings.   Some people make a particular type of music 
because it has been
> shown that crowds like it.   There is always room for
> experimentation/innovation within a genre without having to do 
something
> drastic like replacing a '4 to floor' beat with a breakbeat or 
whacking in a
> saxophone solo.    

LOL...."experiment within a genre", conservative again!

Music policies/restrictions exist at clubs so that
> punters get to hear what they paid to hear.   There is always a 
club
> somewhere that will cater to their tastes.   There is no point in 
going out
> for a night to a techno club, expecting to hear that music, and 
then have
> some 'rebelious' dj play a new garage/country hybrid music at 
them.  You can
> just imagine people complaining to the dj,  and getting the 
reply; "F*** off
> you conservative w*nk*rs, I'm doing this for your own good!"

Or i could imagine but you probably can't, that someone would 
play something outside the mold of the evening and people 
might just get exited or inspired. But your far to busy playing to 
the "crowd" as lowest common denomonater....money 
maker...and dj.....


john

> regards Hector.