The Logic Off Topic list

This past Wednesday in Audio Round-Table we discussed payment and hiring
issues  for session players and producers on rocketnetwork, and what
arrangements could be made to foster a social scene for meeting new
players better. We also touched on EXS24 and EVP88 for the few users who
were not yet enjoying these marvels :)

The session was attended by LennieJ, drumboy, butchjones, BetaBrett,
remixqueen,
DJ-Allard, xiabram, MixMasterMark and oink.
The following is a substantially edited summary of the forum chat:


 remixqueen says, "so oink can we start ?"
 BetaBrett says, "let's..."
 oink says, "OK , welcome everyone"
 oink says, "I have set 2 topics tonight"
 oink says, "Softsynths, because the functionality has changed since
4.7"
 oink says, "and arrangements for hiring session players on rocket,
cause that is becoming more of an issue lately, as to where we need to
go"
 remixqueen says, "well who is using rocket for session work . . i know
I'm using it for co-writing?"
 oink says, "ok lets go to the sessions topic"
 oink says, "I think butch has a strong interest there"
 remixqueen says, "yes I'm interested to know about this"
 remixqueen says, "too"
 butchjones says, "you mean the session work stuff"
 remixqueen says, "i have only thought of a co-writing situation whereby
if money changes hands for the recording one gets paid . .like in the
real world"
 oink says, "yes"
 remixqueen says, "supposedly (-:"
 BetaBrett says, "btw.... check out DigiDesign's DigiProNet for actual
action around these issues..."
 LennieJ says, "well so far its been on a situation basis for me"
 oink says, "so we need a system to make that more easy on rocket"
 oink says, "especially for remote users"
 remixqueen says, "well who is going to pay?"
 remixqueen says, "and who is paying?"
 oink says, "well, also a system of record for future payments"
 butchjones says, "Currently trying to setup a NY base for xxxxxxx as
well as anyone else "
 oink says, "like sessions done on the expectation of gettin paid when
the producer does"
 butchjones says, "from what they say money for session players and
studio time is being wired directly into accounts"
 remixqueen says, "but that's between the producer and muso not rocket i
would have thought"
 oink says, "does xxxxxxx have a plan for a payment system ?"
 oink says, "well I don't think rocket needs get totally involved"
 oink says, "at all"
 remixqueen says, "no not at all"
 oink says, "but if a 3rd party were to come on board"
 remixqueen says, "it should be strictly between the producer and muso"
 butchjones says, "I talked with xxx from xxxxxxxx and that's how they
go about it for right now"
 butchjones says, "wire services"
 BetaBrett says, "DigiProNet is doing it as a service related to Rocket
but not delivered by Rocket"
 remixqueen says, "3rd party?"
 remixqueen says, "oink?"
 oink says, "well an escrow company"
 remixqueen says, "no it shouldn't have anything to do with rocket"
 butchjones says, "that's because they [xxxxx] want to keep it self
proprietary"
 oink says, "or someone who could be there to register agreements"
 remixqueen says, "no it should be between pro and mus"
 remixqueen says, "what should rocket get involved"
 remixqueen says, "a regular studio doesn't"
 remixqueen says, "which is what rocket really is"
 oink says, "well if there was a button on the webpage"
 oink says, "that would lead to commercial service providers"
 remixqueen says, "?"
 oink says, "cause we are in remote situations"
 oink says, "different unions etc."
 remixqueen says, "i think people who are looking for collaborators or
musicians can find them easily enough on rocket"
 remixqueen says, "i certainly have"
 oink says, "sure"
 BetaBrett says, "I think we should see Rocket as a behind-the-scenes
provider of code for collaboration - others will do the business of
music business.... that's my guess anyway"
 butchjones says, "might be nice to start building some kind of data
base when a person uses a musician where they can be rated by current
users"
 BetaBrett says, "but in the meantime.....  ;)"
 oink says, "there are people here available for sessions"
 remixqueen says, "and my agreement with everyone is exactly the same as
if they were in my "real"studio"
 oink says, "lots"
 remixqueen says, "but who would use them?"
 oink says, "but a lot want some framework for arranging payment etc."
 remixqueen says, "the session players . . . "
 remixqueen says, "but it's nothing to do with rocket . . . "
 remixqueen says, "session players have a union"
 oink says, "not for on-going collaborations so much"
 remixqueen says, "collabs are different"
 oink says, "but for quick 'one-timers'"
 remixqueen says, "they are writing"
 oink says, "yes, of course"
 remixqueen says, "well who do u know that is doing sessions on rocket?"

 oink says, "i know a few who want to"
 oink says, "but are wary"
 remixqueen says, "well don't we all (-:"
 oink says, "and i'm sure there will be individuals who want to hire
players"
 remixqueen says, "i'm sorry but that sounds like typical musi paranoia"

 butchjones says, "xxxxxxx has been doing them between @@@@@ and Calif"
 oink says, "especially private users who want a bit more pro-edge to
what they're working on"
 remixqueen says, "but is that not something they have sorted out
individually?"
 remixqueen says, "butch?"
 butchjones says, "they just did a horn date on Sat with players from
Earth Wind and Fire"
 remixqueen says, "and was rocket involved?"
 remixqueen says, "i thought rocket was a service"
 butchjones says, "The players and arranger were contacted by the Calif
engineer"
 remixqueen says, "not a collection agency"
 oink says, "its not a collection agency"
 remixqueen says, "good"
 drumboy says, "hi guys, i'm new to rocket but as a session drummer in
los angeles, i would love to be able to get some sort of payment for
programming drums on a track over this system for someone who would need
that service."
 butchjones says, "xxxxxxx pays directly to the producer or arranger i
believe"
 remixqueen says, "k"
 oink says, "never will be, I hope, but we are talking about the general
process of online sessions"
 remixqueen says, "well as i've said before why should it be any
different from the "outside" world?"
 remixqueen says, "u make an agreement"
 butchjones says, "agreed"
 remixqueen says, "phew (-:"
 oink says, "in real world there are plenty of private individuals who
want to hire session players to finish of their projects, this could be
a source of work for players  here"
 oink says, "if a producer or two could offer a service"
 remixqueen says, "so the people who want to work should avail
themselves of the public sessions"
 butchjones says, "that's why i think there should be some kind of
referral page along with ratings for players that have been used"
 remixqueen says, "that's the best way to see how someone plays and
thinks"
 oink says, "yes indeed"
 drumboy says, "and the people who need the musicians should too"
 remixqueen says, "good idea butch"
 BetaBrett says, "Butch... does AMG offer this stuff?"
 oink says, "spending time around the place sure helps"
 remixqueen says, "yes indeed (-:"
 drumboy has left the Session
 butchjones says, "no "
 BetaBrett says, "k"
 butchjones says, "they just gather all RIAA approved credits and post
them on their database"
 BetaBrett says, "ahhh"
 oink says, "a referral page would be good"
 oink says, "but there needs to be an umpire or something behind it"
 remixqueen says, "AMG is a good ref but a lot of indie records don't
make it there"
 butchjones says, "but if you keep checking through the played with
links you can find out what ever a player you're looking into has been"
 butchjones says, "that"
 oink says, "and not a lot of non-US records either"
 remixqueen says, "yes . .almost"
 oink says, "UK coverage is poor"
 butchjones says, "that's right but the best musicians do"
 butchjones says, "we would have to do some research because there must
be an eqiv service in Europe"
 oink says, "maybe not, i haven't found one"
 oink says, "except for band-register"
 oink says, "which isn't the same"
 oink says, "http://www.bandreg.com/"
 butchjones says, "i'm now trying to tap into a lot of the session
players that i work with in the studio here in NY to see how they feel
about this new tech"
 oink says, "they have a service you can pay for i think"
 butchjones says, "they're loving the idea but they are also waiting to
see about the payment plans"
 oink says, "so we need agents really"
 oink says, "on-line agents"
 oink says, "just dealing with rocket stuff"
 butchjones says, "not so sure"
 BetaBrett says, "hmmmm"
 butchjones says, "i think xxx's idea of making your deal with whoever
is going to play on the session then working out a wire transfer"
 oink says, "or at least a live body who has an on-line presence, who
can arrange things, suggest players , keep tabs ?"
 butchjones says, "one of the things to work on is finding a way"
 butchjones says, "to loose the mystique of who does what first"
 LennieJ says, "well its all pretty simple  if your going to hire
someone the odds are 99% its someone U have worked with before"
 butchjones says, "wire the money, play the gig first, get money first,
etc....."
 butchjones says, "gotta start working with people we trust"
 butchjones says, "also you can still deal with them thru the union"
 oink says, "yes , and we need someone who can be a 'rabbi', who can
gently hint if they know a user might be full of ****"
 BetaBrett says, "lol"
 butchjones says, "that's part of the ratings page if it can happen"
 oink says, "cause its a good platform for spammers"
 butchjones says, "person is bad he gets listed as badddddd"
 LennieJ says, "the ratings page is a big can of worms "
 butchjones says, "not a good platform if they're in the union tho"
 oink says, "ratings page can be a bit difficult at first, if we have a
small userbase"
 LennieJ says, "U cant put rocket users into classes"
 oink says, "people could get political"
 butchjones says, "it's not classifying them"
 oink says, "personal friendships could come into play"
 butchjones says, "and we know about friends in the studio :-) "
 oink says, "wheras a few individuals who are online all the time and
keep tabs on whats going on"
 oink says, "rabbis if you will, could be more impartial"
 BetaBrett says, "the only true filters are our own experiences - like
in the real world"
 oink says, "because their reputations would depend on being fair"
 remixqueen says, "i hate to be the harbinger of doom but i think all of
this is a bit pie in the sky . . the only way i would ever use someone
is on recommendation . .  . and name experience . . "
 BetaBrett says, "that's right on jan"
 remixqueen says, "i co-write with a lot of people on rocket"
 oink says, "well in every city there is a microcosm of a 'session
scene' or 'music scene' , but individuals would have to spend a lot of
time on-line to become part of that sort of scene on a global basis"
 remixqueen says, "and play in public sessions to see who's around and
to "shock horror" play some music occasionally (-:"
 remixqueen says, "because i enjoy it  . . . ."
 oink says, "yeh, but trust and positive experience will grow the
system"
 oink says, "jan has a good line on a lot of good players here"
 oink says, "probably the best"
 remixqueen says, "oh gosh i should say so . . ."
 remixqueen says, "incredible collabs"
 oink says, "when we have 20 or 30 'jans' around the place"
 butchjones says, "that's how it begins"
 oink says, "it will grow on its own strength"
 butchjones says, "being able to listen to each other"
 oink says, "well we have to push push push for community"
 remixqueen says, "yes butch"
 remixqueen says, "and yes oink"
 butchjones says, "and hear what's being played goes along way with
recommending those players too"
 oink says , "yes it does, and IRL that is in clubs"
 oink says, "well trust needs community"
 remixqueen says, "can we have lounges please"
 BetaBrett says, "yup, jan"
 remixqueen says, "like we used to in the studio days"
 remixqueen says, "thanx"
 oink says, "yes lounges"
 remixqueen says, "coffee and tea?"
 remixqueen says, "can we talk about soft synths and midi situation type
4 in a mo please?"
 oink says, "ok midi situation type 4 is a Unified midi engine error"
 remixqueen says, "yes . .i'm getting a lot of those"
 oink says, "which can be avoided if you turn off UME"
 remixqueen says, "4.72"
 remixqueen says, "well that's the last thing i want to do "
 oink says, "but you lose the functionality"
 remixqueen says, "so what is the reason for these errors?"
 remixqueen says, "512 ram"
 remixqueen says, "dual g4"
 remixqueen says, "should be able to handle it"
 oink says, "i don't know, but some sort of conflict between UME and the
way youre doing midi"
 remixqueen says, "oh"
 remixqueen says, "what could that be?"
 oink says, "in the readme emagic have stated they would like some
feedback on when people get these sort of errors"
 remixqueen says, "ok i'll pay more attention and report it"
 remixqueen says, "thanx"
 oink says, "are you using OMS ?"
 remixqueen says, "no"
 oink says, "oh hang on, are you using autoloads created in older
versions ?"
 BetaBrett says, "good point"
 oink says, "i had those errors on 4.7 till I rebuilt my autoload"
 remixqueen says, "hmm poss  . .i'll redo them if that's the case"
 oink says, "never get them now"
 oink says, "touch wood"
 remixqueen says, "k "
 remixqueen says, "thanx"
 remixqueen says, "always good advice"
 oink says, "did you only get them on audioinstruments ?"
 remixqueen says, "seems that way"
 oink says, "have you got them when you had no softs ?"
 remixqueen says, "hardly use the midi rack anymore (-:"
 remixqueen says, "so hard to tell"
 oink says, "it might pay to just replace the audioinstrument objects
when you open an older song"
 remixqueen says, "k"
 oink says, "save the settings first as a preset"
 oink says, "the delete the object and create a new one"
 oink says, "worth trying"
 remixqueen says, "k thanx"
 oink says, "just off the top of my head"
 remixqueen says, "your auto load theory makes the most sense  . . "
 oink says, "butch: are you using softsynths much ?"
 butchjones says, "not yet"
 oink says, "EXS is very handy on rocket"
 remixqueen says, "i think it's the best way to work on rocket"
 butchjones says, "have to check it out"
 remixqueen says, "snap "
 remixqueen says, "and the little freebie vst insts are great too"
 remixqueen says, "the mda piano is great for writing"
 butchjones says, "gotta an early session tomorrow so hope i get to talk
with evrybody again next Wed"
 oink says, "I have a yen for the full version of absynth"
 remixqueen says, "of course the evp88 is a dream come true (-:"
 butchjones says, "thanks for the invite"
 remixqueen says, "bye butch"
 BetaBrett says, "cya butch, take care"
 oink says, "great butch, thanks for coming :)"
 remixqueen says, "bye"
 oink says, "bye"
 butchjones has left the Session
 xiabram says, "i dont use them much"
 xiabram says, "somtimes though should use them more"
 oink says, "but you have a rhodes etc. don't you X ?"
 xiabram says, "no only a  triton pro X"
 xiabram says, "and a JD800"
 MixMasterMark says, "you  can do that on the triton  x"
 xiabram says, "thats it here"
 oink says, "well EVP88 would be cool for you"
 xiabram says, "yes it would"
 oink says, "it loves a weighted kb"
 xiabram says, "and i love piano"
 oink says, "only EP, but lovely"
 xiabram says, "yes iv'e heard"
 oink says, "dynamics are so much better than layered samples"
 xiabram says, "how much is it?"
 xiabram says, "cost"
 oink says, "I'll check, i dunno the US cost"
 xiabram says, "i've heard demos of it sounds wonderful"
 xiabram says, "i'm still kinda worried about doing things internally"
 xiabram says, "i still like having dedicated units"
 oink says, "ok I got a rrp of $199"
 BetaBrett says, "EVP88 as low as 169$US i've heard"
 oink says, "i guess it could be less"
 xiabram says, "wow i thought it was more"
 xiabram says, "that's well worth looking into"
 oink says, "well if you are worried about doing things internally, just
take a pointer from those of us who have both and just get too slack to
go to the external devices"
 oink says, "cause its so easy to just grab a soft"
 BetaBrett says, "I always wonder about that - grabbing an external midi
device is sooooooo easy in logic"
 xiabram says, "it just seems to me that already when im doing audio and
processing that to start doing samplers and synths just gonna be one
more thing that can go wrong"
 oink says, "i have to keep kicking myself to use that hardware more
often"
 oink says, "well not really, the same things go wrong with both"
 BetaBrett says, "Am i the only one here who still mixes on a hardware
desk????"
 oink says, "its not a cumulative effect"
 xiabram says, "no i use a hard wear desk"
 BetaBrett says, "whew!"
 BetaBrett says, "i feel better now"
 xiabram says, "a small one"
 xiabram says, "makie 1604"
 remixqueen says, "no brett i still use a "line mixer" which is what my
dear old mackies have become (-:"
 oink says, "hehe"
 xiabram says, "yeah"
 BetaBrett says, "ahhh yes... i use a 32 4-bus and love it"
 BetaBrett says, "mackie"
 xiabram says, "its nice to touch something"
 remixqueen says, "yes i have the 8 bus and they rocked"
 xiabram says, "hehe"
 BetaBrett says, "mmmmmmmm yummy, 8bus"
 remixqueen says, "even had the sidecars"
 BetaBrett says, "sweet"
 xiabram says, "id like to find some neve channels"
 remixqueen says, "oh yes please"
 xiabram says, "like 2"
 oink says, "but sequencers are only just coming up to speed with bus
arrangements"
 BetaBrett says, "hooked up to a mackie 8bus"
 remixqueen says, "guys . .have to finish my remix . .great chatting see
y'all next week"
 BetaBrett says, "cya jan - die well!"
 oink says, "thanks for joining us jan :)"
 remixqueen says, "hehe bye"
 oink says, "cya :)"
 xiabram says, "ciao"
 oink thanks eveyone for coming"


***********************************************************************
 Disclaimer: I have edited this chat substantially, but done my utmost
to maintain the sense of what was said. This is to be regarded as only a

precis of the actual chat, and any unforseen or contentious inference
that can be drawn form one line to the next, is purely unintentional on
my part, and cannot be attributed to the persons who posted the chat.

***********************************************************************

Dave Eager [oink]




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