The Logic Off Topic list

Last Christmas I had to buy the Eminem CD as a present for my 12 year old
Niece. The language was ok for a 12 year old so thought  my fair minded
sister, however was definitely not a good idea for my nieces younger
siblings to hear "Mother f*^&*er" and so forth.

The result was that my sister asked me if I could burn a CD copy with all
the swearing taken out! for my niece to play infront of her younger sisters.
Thinking it would only take an hour or so, I agreed.  Using Logic and or
Cool Edit, it took me EIGHT HOURS, there was that much bad language and
shock value lyrics. At the end of the session I felt my brain would be
irretrievably twisted by the experience- that explains a lot then..... :-)

Using Logic my SW1000XG and Rode NT1, I then sampled an Eminem loop, and
made a spoof Eminem rap tune for my sisters kids-

"My name is....My name is...... My name is  ..funky unky John"

Cheers

John

Groovey Band website               mail to : chickenjohn@...
http://www.grooveyband.co.uk/
East Kent Morris Minor Club web site        or  ; john@...
http://www.ekmm.co.uk
Shake The Snake web site (other band)   or  ; john@...
http://www.shakethesnake.co.uk


----- Original Message -----

From: <yoonchi@...>
To: <logic-ot@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 23 August 2001 20:28
Subject: [L-OT] Why does EminEm irritate so many people?


> Hi,
> I don't get it. This dude uses foul language in his songs, builds an
> image and makes money, and everyone seems to get on his back. What's
> the problem? Jealousy? Narrowmindedness?
> Pop music's been this way since I can remember it. Johnny Rotten used
> to do the same thing, so did Chuck Berry, the Stones and you name it.
> Ok, Chuck didn't use foul language, but he implied it. And wasn't his
> music called devil music at first?
> But what's the problem with Em? He built an image, used artistic
> freedom. He may even have an influence on the music to come. What's
> wrong with that? If Marilyn Manson was chosen as endorser of Logic,
> would that have made a difference?
> I followed the discussion on the LUG and I burst laughing when the
> person who started the thread said he wouldn't use a product because
> of the association with a certain artist. Well, that could prevent him
> from using a lot of products that you use daily, if it was important
> to you to not use products associated with certain individuals. How
> about computers that are also being used for militairy purposes. Oil
> from countries that finance wars. Would you use a Mac if you knew
> Saddam Houssein was using them?
> Just some thoughts,
> Yoonchi
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Taking all the swear words out just makes the 'genuine article' all the more appealing...

What was left when you were done? 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John Matthews 
  To: logic-ot@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 12:48 PM
  Subject: Re: [L-OT] Why does EminEm irritate so many people?


  Last Christmas I had to buy the Eminem CD as a present for my 12 year old
  Niece. The language was ok for a 12 year old so thought  my fair minded
  sister, however was definitely not a good idea for my nieces younger
  siblings to hear "Mother f*^&*er" and so forth.

  The result was that my sister asked me if I could burn a CD copy with all
  the swearing taken out! for my niece to play infront of her younger sisters.
  Thinking it would only take an hour or so, I agreed.  Using Logic and or
  Cool Edit, it took me EIGHT HOURS, there was that much bad language and
  shock value lyrics. At the end of the session I felt my brain would be
  irretrievably twisted by the experience- that explains a lot then..... :-)

  Using Logic my SW1000XG and Rode NT1, I then sampled an Eminem loop, and
  made a spoof Eminem rap tune for my sisters kids-

  "My name is....My name is...... My name is  ..funky unky John"

  Cheers

  John

  Groovey Band website               mail to : chickenjohn@...
  http://www.grooveyband.co.uk/
  East Kent Morris Minor Club web site        or  ; john@...
  http://www.ekmm.co.uk
  Shake The Snake web site (other band)   or  ; john@...
  http://www.shakethesnake.co.uk


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: <yoonchi@...>
  To: <logic-ot@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: 23 August 2001 20:28
  Subject: [L-OT] Why does EminEm irritate so many people?


  > Hi,
  > I don't get it. This dude uses foul language in his songs, builds an
  > image and makes money, and everyone seems to get on his back. What's
  > the problem? Jealousy? Narrowmindedness?
  > Pop music's been this way since I can remember it. Johnny Rotten used
  > to do the same thing, so did Chuck Berry, the Stones and you name it.
  > Ok, Chuck didn't use foul language, but he implied it. And wasn't his
  > music called devil music at first?
  > But what's the problem with Em? He built an image, used artistic
  > freedom. He may even have an influence on the music to come. What's
  > wrong with that? If Marilyn Manson was chosen as endorser of Logic,
  > would that have made a difference?
  > I followed the discussion on the LUG and I burst laughing when the
  > person who started the thread said he wouldn't use a product because
  > of the association with a certain artist. Well, that could prevent him
  > from using a lot of products that you use daily, if it was important
  > to you to not use products associated with certain individuals. How
  > about computers that are also being used for militairy purposes. Oil
  > from countries that finance wars. Would you use a Mac if you knew
  > Saddam Houssein was using them?
  > Just some thoughts,
  > Yoonchi
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  >
  >
  >


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
       
       

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Using Logic and or
> Cool Edit, it took me EIGHT HOURS, there was that much bad language 
and shock value lyrics. At the end of the session I felt my brain 
would be irretrievably twisted by the experience- that explains a lot 
then..... :-)
> 
> Using Logic my SW1000XG and Rode NT1, I then sampled an Eminem 
loop, and made a spoof Eminem rap tune for my sisters kids-
> 
> "My name is....My name is...... My name is  ..funky unky John"
> 
> Cheers
> 
> John


Very cool email! The point has been accented!

Listen, I started the thread because I believe in principles. One of 
those principles is to try to be associated only with products, 
companies, and tools which do the job, and which are designed and 
built by people whom care about our existence on this planet.

These tools, those of music creation and capturing, are the heart of, 
at least my, creative process (not as a manipulation tool, but as a 
recording device)

I work on music that is uplifting, inspiring, from the dark to the 
light.

The problem I have with the artist I mentioned is that his art does 
nothing to bring mankind to a greater awareness, or awakening, or 
uplifting. Art should do that. Originally, IMHO, that was how Art 
started. To inspire, instill awe...

not to disseminate, and promulgate hatred, and deprecating attitudes.

so, that's my peace: That Emagic, in their choice to reach a broader 
audience and more sales, sold their integrity on Quality, creativity, 
the spark of life.

Such a representative....well....

it's done.

> The problem I have with the artist I mentioned is that his art does
> nothing to bring mankind to a greater awareness, or awakening, or
> uplifting. Art should do that. Originally, IMHO, that was how Art
> started. To inspire, instill awe...

Eminem, and all commercial music, is not about art. It's about selling a
product, and he's done very well with that. In a society where ignorance is
becoming a virtue, it is not surprising that something like Eminem's
products would sell so well.

As you have probably already noticed, the music industry is moving away from
any pretense of creating art. I recently read a blurb somewhere from someone
in a new cookie-cutter teen pop girl group who, upon completion of her first
album, spoke of how proud she was of her "product". She used the word
several times, obviously making no claim to being an artist.

What is truly laughable are the people who try to make Eminem out to be so
much more than what he is. I see phrases like "poet of the new generation"
and "speaking to the disenfranchised" tossed around all the time, usually by
critics trying desperately to show that they're hip because they pretend to
like the stuff. If people honestly believe that this is serious art (and
even Eminem himself has said that it isn't), then that's all the proof you
need that western civilization is in serious decline. Anyone who writes
stuff like "I'm Slim Shady/The real Slim Shady/All you other Slim Shadys/Are
just imitaties" and gets hailed as a poet is laughing all the way to the
bank.

Anyway... although we use Logic for creating art, Emagic sells it to make
money. One can't fault them for using the success of a product made with
Logic to promote it.

--- In logic-ot@y..., "Bruce Bartlett" <bruce.bartlett@p...> wrote:
> 
> Anyway... although we use Logic for creating art, Emagic sells it 
to make
> money. One can't fault them for using the success of a product made 
with
> Logic to promote it.


Excellent, excellent, excellent conclusion to this thread, Bruce!!!

You are right, and I guess that's the crux of my argument. I've 
always been involved in music and the Arts in general because of the 
creativity, the inspiration, and the sense of awe you can deliver, 
and be a part of....the potential for insight to life, to uplift, 
express...

and the frustrating part for me was to see my tool, as if it were the 
same brush that M&m used....when I know he's all about things which I 
simply don't agree with, from an Artistic perspective.

And my chief complaint wasn't really about him, but about the 
commercialism and numbers game that Emagic had seemingly done such a 
good job of steering clear from...


You hit the nail on the head, much more succinctly than I did.

Thanks for the great reply!

Regards

Serafim

>Listen, I started the thread because I believe in principles. One of 
>those principles is to try to be associated only with products, 
>companies, and tools which do the job, and which are designed and 
>built by people whom care about our existence on this planet.

Its a good thing Eminem didn't make Logic at all! 

>These tools, those of music creation and capturing, are the heart of, 
>at least my, creative process (not as a manipulation tool, but as a 
>recording device)

Well become famous and Emagic will feature you too. 

>The problem I have with the artist I mentioned is that his art does 
>nothing to bring mankind to a greater awareness, or awakening, or 
>uplifting. Art should do that. Originally, IMHO, that was how Art 
>started. To inspire, instill awe...

Well he does have a slightly catchy tune - that "Real Slim Shady". But he 
is just one of many rappers who make women sex objects, who cuss like 
sailors, who talk about killing cops. This has been going on for 10 years 
or more. Its the whole genre!

>> The problem I have with the artist I mentioned is that his art does
>> nothing to bring mankind to a greater awareness, or awakening, or
>> uplifting. Art should do that. Originally, IMHO, that was how Art
>> started. To inspire, instill awe...

Just because he doesn't uplift YOU...

... he's the messiah to the trailer trash of america!

:)

--- In logic-ot@y..., marc lindahl <marc@b...> wrote:
> 
> 
> >> The problem I have with the artist I mentioned is that his art 
does
> >> nothing to bring mankind to a greater awareness, or 
awakening, or
> >> uplifting. Art should do that. Originally, IMHO, that was how 
Art
> >> started. To inspire, instill awe...
-------------
art surely also exists to irritate, confound, cause seemingly 
sensible people to become judgemental, and yes, cause people  
like me to bother responding to an otherwise irrelevance....
id never buy one of his records, but i think he does a sterling job 
of bringing people to their sense, ie, with any luck causing 
us/them to examine our prejudicial mindsets....in short, if you 
detest/dislike someone like eminem then you're probably not fit 
for and entry in my address book :)

andy

At 12:55 AM +0000 8/24/01, soreyenus@... wrote:
>
>Listen, I started the thread because I believe in principles. One of
>those principles is to try to be associated only with products,
>companies, and tools which do the job, and which are designed and
>built by people whom care about our existence on this planet.
>
>These tools, those of music creation and capturing, are the heart of,
>at least my, creative process (not as a manipulation tool, but as a
>recording device)
>
>I work on music that is uplifting, inspiring, from the dark to the
>light.
>
>The problem I have with the artist I mentioned is that his art does
>nothing to bring mankind to a greater awareness, or awakening, or
>uplifting. Art should do that. Originally, IMHO, that was how Art
>started. To inspire, instill awe...

This gives me a tummy ache.   I makes want to puke in someone's shoe. 
My background has exposed me to the "holier than though" set and 
sickeningly destructive results of their hypocrisy far too much to 
allow me to believe a word of anyone who represents himself in this 
way.  In my experience the greatest pleasure people who talk this way 
can derive is when they can actually find someone they can convince 
their act is real and the pleasure is generally shorter lived than 
the pain because the whole thing always falls apart but somehow 
refuses to end.  It is far far more "uplifting" to me to hear 
somebody simply say what is really on their mind even if it's ugly 
rather than trying to convince the world that they are nicest most 
enlightened person in it and that everything would be peaches and 
cream if everyone else was just like them.

Thank you for warning away from your art.

For the sins of sanctimony and censure I sentence you to spend 
eternity on the phone with doctor Laura and Rush Limbaugh.
-- 


                                 Dennis Gunn
                                 Mightyjohn@...

                  check out  MIGHTY JOHN HENRY's album "hot air head"
                                                    info at
                        http://www.twics.com/~mightyjo/home.html

--- In logic-ot@y..., Dennis Gunn <mightyjohn@t...> wrote:
 It is far far more "uplifting" to me to hear 
> somebody simply say what is really on their mind even if it's ugly 
> rather than trying to convince the world that they are nicest most 
> enlightened person in it and that everything would be peaches and 
> cream if everyone else was just like them.
> 
> Thank you for warning away from your art.
> 
> For the sins of sanctimony and censure I sentence you to spend 
> eternity on the phone with doctor Laura and Rush Limbaugh.
> -- 
> 
> 
ha ha Dennis! Or is it mightyjohn? Don't worry...maybe you already do 
know my Art, but just don't know it's me!!!!

I'm not as sanctimonious as you, and my pleasure is not derived in 
trying to convince anyone of anything. But aren't you doing the very 
same thing trying to convince all of us my post was wrong?

It was simply voicing my concern about Emagic to the Emagic user 
group, just the way you voiced your concern, albeit entirely 
mistaken, about my post. Somewhere, in the fuzz of your brain, you 
missed that I actually was speaking my mind. It did end with a 
question, right?

Got a problem with that? Who cares!!! 

You can't even capture the main point from my post, which has nothing 
to do with how enlightened I may or may not be....but with the 
central purpose, to my mind, of reminding a company, from their 
customer, that I do care whom they choose to represent the product, 
their company. Think back a few decades, or were you still in 
diapers? Companies used to spend agonizing days, weeks, months 
choosing public representatives...because they were genuninely 
concerned about the impact to their reputation, moreso than the 
numbers generated (though it was a factor as well)

Some of us humans haven't gone the way of mainstream; immediate, 
hedonistic desires instantly fulfilled and every lusty hole plugged. 
Some of us do still have principles, and understand that Art has a 
greater impact than people want to believe, and that it truly can 
touch and become the timeless...

HA HA!

I can still say what I want, and know why I say it, and condemn you 
to listen to the idiocy Rush L. would spread in your brain, as it 
seems the seed is already there.

Enjoy!

Serafim

Hey Serafim
Disagreeing with people is fine. We all have our opinions even though 
they may be radically different. However, making personal attacks (on 
Dennis in this case) is not appropriate. Please try to show some common 
courtesy. 

Greg

At 3:10 AM -0400 8/25/01, GAmoore@... wrote:
>Hey Serafim
>Disagreeing with people is fine. We all have our opinions even though
>they may be radically different. However, making personal attacks (on
>Dennis in this case) is not appropriate. Please try to show some common
>courtesy.

Thank you Greg.  But truly I was baiting Mr Soreyanus because I 
wanted to see exactly how uplifting his response would be.   So he is 
quite welcome to become peeved and attack me all he wants.  It 
illustrates my point perfectly.
-- 


                                 Dennis Gunn
                                 Mightyjohn@...

                  check out  MIGHTY JOHN HENRY's album "hot air head"
                                                    info at
                        http://www.twics.com/~mightyjo/home.html

At 4:57 AM +0000 8/25/01, soreyenus@... wrote:
>--- In logic-ot@y..., Dennis Gunn <mightyjohn@t...> wrote:
>  It is far far more "uplifting" to me to hear
>>  somebody simply say what is really on their mind even if it's ugly
>>  rather than trying to convince the world that they are nicest most
>>  enlightened person in it and that everything would be peaches and
>>  cream if everyone else was just like them.
>>
>>  Thank you for warning away from your art.
>>
>>  For the sins of sanctimony and censure I sentence you to spend
>>  eternity on the phone with doctor Laura and Rush Limbaugh.
>>  --
>>
>>
>ha ha Dennis! Or is it mightyjohn? Don't worry...maybe you already do
>know my Art, but just don't know it's me!!!!

Do I?  You tell *me*.

>I'm not as sanctimonious as you,

Oh certainly not.  And your daddy can't beat up mine too.

>and my pleasure is not derived in
>trying to convince anyone of anything.

That's too bad because if you are not getting any pleasure from your 
efforts then I fear they are *totally* in vain.

>But aren't you doing the very
>same thing trying to convince all of us my post was wrong?

Ah no.  I can't recall lecturing anyone about what the purpose of art 
was (personally I don't believe it has any *single* purpose but 
rather has *many*) or condemning anyone for choosing to associate 
themselves with anyone else (after all Jesus use to hang out with 
whores and thieves).

>It was simply voicing my concern about Emagic to the Emagic user
>group, just the way you voiced your concern, albeit entirely
>mistaken, about my post.

If I get the gist you were censuring e-magic for associating their 
product with an artist whose work you feel to be vulgar and 
worthless.   And further basically proclaimed that the purpose of art 
in general (and yours in particular) is to uplift man.   Where am I 
mistaken?  Also I can less recall voicing concern than amusement.

>Somewhere, in the fuzz of your brain, you
>missed that I actually was speaking my mind. It did end with a
>question, right?
>
>Got a problem with that? Who cares!!!

Uplifting prose if there ever was.

>You can't even capture the main point from my post, which has nothing
>to do with how enlightened I may or may not be.

All I know is what you actually said if the point you were trying to 
make was something else that's not my fault.

>...but with the
>central purpose, to my mind, of reminding a company, from their
>customer, that I do care whom they choose to represent the product,
>their company. Think back a few decades, or were you still in
>diapers? Companies used to spend agonizing days, weeks, months
>choosing public representatives...because they were genuninely
>concerned about the impact to their reputation, moreso than the
>numbers generated (though it was a factor as well)

Hmmm sounds like a rather rose tinted take on things.  Are you 
telling me that back in the good old days companies were more 
concerned with presenting a wholesome image than selling their 
product?

Do you remember Anita "come to the Florida Sunshine Tree" Briant.

>Some of us humans haven't gone the way of mainstream; immediate,
>hedonistic desires instantly fulfilled and every lusty hole plugged.
>Some of us do still have principles, and understand that Art has a
>greater impact than people want to believe, and that it truly can
>touch and become the timeless...
>
>HA HA!

Thank you for appending the laughter yourself and saving me the trouble.
-- 


                                 Dennis Gunn
                                 Mightyjohn@...

                  check out  MIGHTY JOHN HENRY's album "hot air head"
                                                    info at
                        http://www.twics.com/~mightyjo/home.html

Who actually does listen to Eminmen?

Black people think he's a phoney (because he's white). He's no "donny 
osmond" when it comes to attracting teenbopper chicks. I guess his base 
is the angry white teenager who is not into heavy metal. 

>>> The problem I have with the artist I mentioned is that his art does
>>> nothing to bring mankind to a greater awareness, or awakening, or
>>> uplifting. Art should do that. Originally, IMHO, that was how Art
>>> started. To inspire, instill awe...
>
>Just because he doesn't uplift YOU...
>
>... he's the messiah to the trailer trash of america!

At 10:11 AM -0400 8/25/01, GAmoore@... wrote:

>Black people think he's a phoney (because he's white).

Wait a minute, only white people are allowed to be racist.
-- 


                                 Dennis Gunn
                                 Mightyjohn@...

                  check out  MIGHTY JOHN HENRY's album "hot air head"
                                                    info at
                        http://www.twics.com/~mightyjo/home.html

--- In logic-ot@y..., Dennis Gunn <mightyjohn@t...> wrote:
> At 3:10 AM -0400 8/25/01, GAmoore@a... wrote:
> >Hey Serafim
> >Disagreeing with people is fine. We all have our opinions even 
though
> >they may be radically different. However, making personal attacks 
(on
> >Dennis in this case) is not appropriate. Please try to show some 
common
> >courtesy.
> 
> Thank you Greg.  But truly I was baiting Mr Soreyanus because I 
> wanted to see exactly how uplifting his response would be.   So he 
is 
> quite welcome to become peeved and attack me all he wants.  It 
> illustrates my point perfectly.
> -- 



ha ha! Right. You have that much intelligence and foresight. Ha ha!!

You're soo kewl...

--- In logic-ot@y..., Dennis Gunn <mightyjohn@t...> wrote:


>But aren't you doing the very
>same thing trying to convince all of us my post was wrong?

Ah no.  I can't recall lecturing anyone about what the purpose of art 
was (personally I don't believe it has any *single* purpose but 
rather has *many*) or condemning anyone for choosing to associate 
themselves with anyone else (after all Jesus use to hang out with 
whores and thieves).


Dennis, you make some excellent points. I'm humble enough to admit 
I've gone a bit over the edge, and my idealism had taken hold a bit 
too strongly. (that ideal being that Art has the power to transform, 
and with it comes responsibility)

You are right, my spew did turn into a lecture, which I should've 
never subjected the group to. I have no place at all judging 
another's Art, moreover condemning it, and subjecting the group to 
this entirely useless, personal rant.

Thanks for being persistent enough to break down my arguments even 
further, to make me see what I was really saying. My sincere 
apologies for my personal attacks out of the heat of passion.


My grand apologies to the entire group for starting, and continuing, 
this useless rant.

Play on,

Serafim

>>Black people think he's a phoney (because he's white).
>
>Wait a minute, only white people are allowed to be racist.

Thats true. I have heard from Hispanic (guera loca = crazy (slutty) white 
girl), Black, Jewish ("goy and chiksa"), Korean, and Japanese friends 
various derogatory comments about whites which is "OK", but all of these 
groups play the race card whenever it suits their interests.

At 1:52 AM +0000 8/26/01, soreyenus@... wrote:
>
>Thanks for being persistent enough to break down my arguments even
>further, to make me see what I was really saying. My sincere
>apologies for my personal attacks out of the heat of passion.

I am utterly speechless.  I have never seen anybody switch off rant 
mode so quickly and simply.  I don't think I could.  Truly I am 
humbled.
-- 


                                 Dennis Gunn
                                 Mightyjohn@...

                  check out  MIGHTY JOHN HENRY's album "hot air head"
                                                    info at
                        http://www.twics.com/~mightyjo/home.html

Hi Dennis,
first, if it wasn't you that asked this on Daw-Mac then forgive me. I 
was writing an answer and my Mac crashed. I think I saw your name as 
the person who asked for this so :-) :
At least with OS 8.6 and Ethernet you will get these mini freezes 
(your mouse moves but you can't do anything else). It's a well known 
bug in OS 8.6 and the version of Open Transport in it. This shouldn't 
happen with 9.X systems (I don't know 'cos I'm still on 8.6).

Cheers
-- 
Check out the web page for my band:
Now solo works also:
New home address : http://koti.welho.com/jpennane