The Logic Off Topic list

>Sadly, Britain has made crap cars since the early 1970's (with the exception
>of a few small companies who make sports or luxury vehicles).

The Rolls, Bentleys, and Jags are really nice - but it may have to do 
with business more than quality - just like how Ataris and Macs are 
better than PC's but you know what happened there.

Actually England and the US dominate music strangely here in the US (as 
far as I'm concerned - certain to piss of many people) - one reason is 
that we like to listen to music we can understand. 

Despite their engineering strengths the Germans are not next with the 
hits. I think its the Swedes (Abba, Ace of Bass, etc), then Germans 
(Scorpions and 99 Luftballoons). Kraftwerk is an underground band. 

Here in the states I can hear more Spanish/Mexican/Tejano music than 
French, Italian, Russian, etc which is virtually non-existent - which is 
a shame. I taped one French punk song off the radio one time which I 
loved, but I have no clue what they are saying. I do have one CD of Offra 
Hazi made in Israel - I'm not sure if she is Jewish or Palestinian 
however, and I think she died in the meantime.

Actually I have quite a collection of about 30 Japanese CD's which I like 
a lot. Nakamori Akina, Princess Princess, Chisato Moritoka, Dreams Come 
True, etc.

I wonder how America rap music plays in Europe. I hear rap sounds stuff 
played in Indian movies. I think "god they are copying the worst part of 
American culture."

Traditionaly there used to be to schools of recording engineers, the British
Over-produced and use much more extreme FX, processing, non-traditional
techniques than there conservative American cousins,  so there is the
British EQ, Brian Eno, Depeach Mode, The Beatles.... Americans traditionally
are more inclined to the purist school, unplugged, jazz, and compressed
rock, dry alternative  "well except for the Elvis reverb king ".... Anyhow I
think the rise of computers and globalization are showing there trends,
considering that calkwalk can have fancy FX your average garage band is
experimenting with filters, modulations and such, long are the days when
congas were considered exotic

! > That there is something more organic, authentic, and gritty
> about American music.

Has anyone heard French rap? Or Algerian RAI music with some french rapping!
its such a weird combination......

> But the great thing about that
> culture, is it gets exported, fused, and turns into other things like Rock,
> etc., and comes back and gets mutated again, and so on.  In my opinion,
> anyone who dislikes a genre is ignorant - there are good songs and bad songs
> in any of them.
>

>The bands I mentioned were all from the 1960's, unfortunately, mediocrity
>seems to be the rule of the day today. The best songs (guitar bands etc) we
>hear on British radio at the moment mostly seem to come from the US.

Another American that made it in Britain, like Hendrix was Suzi Quattro. 
However, she never made it big in the US. She made an interesting 
comment. That there is something more organic, authentic, and gritty 
about American music. I forgot her exact words. I got the impression that 
the Brits are high brow intellectuals or soccer hooligan punks (with all 
due respect to our British members of course), while the US music somehow 
more soulful. Its not just Chicago blues, or New Orleans Jazz. Even Kurt 
Cobain/Nirvana, Hendrix, the whole original Woodstock thing, the summer 
of love, NIN, Aretha Franklin, etc have some very real about them in a 
different way. Maybe its non-pretensiousness.

However, almost all of my favorites are British - Beatles, Soft Cell, 
Duran Duran, Depeche Mode, Oasis, etc - none of which has much sincerity 
to it. So I don't know what that means.

--- In logic-ot@y..., GAmoore@a... wrote:
> Actually England and the US dominate music strangely here in the US 
(as 
> far as I'm concerned - certain to piss of many people) - one reason 
is 
> that we like to listen to music we can understand. 

Oh, it's all about marketabillity, as David already said. Try to 
market french chansons or german schlagger(I hope this is the correct 
spelling, :-)) on the US market. It's much more difficult to sell 
something unknown to people.
AFAIK the music business is much more a business in the US then in the 
rest of the world. The corporations sell music as a product; it could 
have been soap these corporations sell. So, to get hits in the US, you 
have to have a product that fits the selling channels. Your music has 
to be playable on radio, your image should be acceptable.

> Despite their engineering strengths the Germans are not next with 
the 
> hits. I think its the Swedes (Abba, Ace of Bass, etc), then Germans 
> (Scorpions and 99 Luftballoons). Kraftwerk is an underground band. 

I think there is more a tradition of producing music in Germany in a 
different form than via bands. You have guys like Giorgio Moroder and 
producers like that that produce a lot of pop music.
You can see from the countries that you mention above, that the bands 
that got on the US market are bands that don't have such a large 
national market; Sweden has a population not more than 20 million, 
AFAIK. German, french and italian markets are much larger. So you get 
people singing in their native language, operating more on their 
native market.

 
> I wonder how America rap music plays in Europe. I hear rap sounds 
stuff 
> played in Indian movies. I think "god they are copying the worst 
part of 
> American culture."

Hmm, I see you don't like hiphop. That's ok. In fact, hiphop is 
something that you find in a lot of cultures around the world, in 
different forms. The hiphop that is known in the US is partly 
Jamaican; in Jamaica they used to do talking on records, it's called 
"toasting". And in afro/caribean culture you have music where people 
give comments while playing african drums, like djembe, congas, bata 
etc. In India you also have similar music.
Here in Europe, with it's immigrants from former colonies, have 
incorporated their cultural influences into hiphop. You have here in 
Holland people rapping in dutch, in France rapping in french, and in 
Germany rapping in german.
Hiphop is an interesting form of music. It's more like performance to 
me than only music. One of my best friends hates hiphop music, but I 
think people dispise this form of music because of the lack of 
knowledge about this genre. True, hiphop has gotten a bad rap because 
of it's image. Still I find it to be one of the purest forms of music. 
The same way I used to hate blue grass music, until I gave it a 
listen.
Yoonchi.

--- In logic-ot@y..., GAmoore@a... wrote:

> 
> I wonder how America rap music plays in Europe. I hear rap 
sounds stuff 
> played in Indian movies. I think "god they are copying the worst 
part of 
> American culture"

Well, you know the old saying about opinions and a**holes; 
everyone has one, and they all stink. :-)

Hip Hop music (what many uninformed people still call RAP)
is more than just the music, it's a culture, much like rock & roll 
was back in the day. I don't think it's the worst part of American 
culture. Actually, Hip Hop is probably the ONLY truly 'American'
music form left besides jazz, and is still the only 

To answer your question, Hip Hop music and culture plays very 
well in Europe. It must not be all that bad.

Charles

Thank you Charles for bringing some enlightenment!  It is the sound of the
Hip Hop culture.  Rapping can be found in many forms of music - e.g. the
country song "Devil Went Down To Georgia" - hardly a hiphop tune!

Though, to be fair, you'd have to say that Country is also an American
original, and traces it's heritage directly back to Blues.  Though, I'd
argue that there hasn't been innovation in Country in 30 or 40 years, since
the lap steel became popular.  So in a way, Hip Hop, Jazz, and Country all
share common roots in Black American music.  But the great thing about that
culture, is it gets exported, fused, and turns into other things like Rock,
etc., and comes back and gets mutated again, and so on.  In my opinion,
anyone who dislikes a genre is ignorant - there are good songs and bad songs
in any of them.

> From: cas@...
> Reply-To: logic-ot@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:20:16 -0000
> To: logic-ot@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [L-OT] British bands
> 
> --- In logic-ot@y..., GAmoore@a... wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I wonder how America rap music plays in Europe. I hear rap
> sounds stuff 
>> played in Indian movies. I think "god they are copying the worst
> part of 
>> American culture"
> 
> Well, you know the old saying about opinions and a**holes;
> everyone has one, and they all stink. :-)
> 
> Hip Hop music (what many uninformed people still call RAP)
> is more than just the music, it's a culture, much like rock & roll
> was back in the day. I don't think it's the worst part of American
> culture. Actually, Hip Hop is probably the ONLY truly 'American'
> music form left besides jazz, and is still the only
> 
> To answer your question, Hip Hop music and culture plays very
> well in Europe. It must not be all that bad.
> 
> Charles
> 
>

> Has anyone heard French rap?


Yes, GREAT!! Some of it anyway.

> Or Algerian RAI music with some french rapping!
> its such a weird combination......

I agree. I love many of Cheb Khaled's songs. (the rhythm of "Diti" still 
makes me want to dance every time I hear it :-)

-- 
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

On Tue, 30 Oct 2001, LogicBaby wrote:

> Has anyone heard French rap? Or Algerian RAI music with some french rapping!
> its such a weird combination......

Yeah you can go on Kazaa (distributed peer-to-peer filesharing network
like Gnutella) and search for "French Rap" to find quite a bit of
interesting stuff.  I also found a lot of rap in German, Arabic, Japanese,
and (one of my favorites) Vietnamese.

The Viet rap was from the US though... with an English chorus.

-Denizen

> From: Dennis Gunn <dennisg@...>
>> Though, to be fair, you'd have to say that Country is also an American
>> original, and traces it's heritage directly back to Blues.
> 
> 
> Oh I don't know sometimes when I am listening to Irish and Celtic
> music I could swear I am hearing Blue Grass.

Song structure, subject matter, instrumentation, ...?

To me, some celtic drumming is very similar to traditional african
drumming...


> I think it is a bit of a smear to say that there has been no
> innovation in in country music don't you.  Right now I have Danny
> Gatton -88 Elmira st. blasting.  I suggest you check it out.

No, I don't think it is...  I really haven't heard anything that isn't
either hackneyed or derivitave, or at least old-school.  Don't get me wrong,
an artist that sticks to trad. roots could be great, like my man Johnny
Cash.  But that doesn't make him innovative.  what's innovative about Danny
Gatton, for those that haven't listened to it yet?

marc lindahl <marc@...> wrote:
> In my opinion,
> anyone who dislikes a genre is ignorant - there are good songs and bad songs
> in any of them.

now there's a real thinking human being! cheers to you for saying that. Is
everyone else listening? he is educating you... don't sleep thru it.

tk brooklyn, NY

> > marc lindahl <marc@...> wrote:
> > In my opinion,
> > anyone who dislikes a genre is ignorant - there are good songs and bad 
> songs
> > in any of them.

Teddy Kumpel wrote:
>now there's a real thinking human being! cheers to you for saying that. Is
>everyone else listening? he is educating you... don't sleep thru it.

Slept through some stuff ... but that I was awake for.

Kool Musick
Keep Musick Kool


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

marc lindahl <marc@...> wrote:
>> > In my opinion,
>> > anyone who dislikes a genre is ignorant - there are good songs and
>bad 
>> songs
>> > in any of them.
truth!
i don't listen to very many 'songs', though.....
*-)
best,
splattercell

yoonchi wrote:


>AFAIK the music business is much more a business in the US then in the
>rest of the world. The corporations sell music as a product; it could
>have been soap these corporations sell. So, to get hits in the US, you
>have to have a product that fits the selling channels. Your music has
>to be playable on radio, your image should be acceptable.

It's far more formatted and commercialized here in Japan than 
anything I have ever seen in the states.  The boy band thing is 
currently on a roll in the States.  In Japan girl bands boy bands 
totally dominate the waves and have for years and years and for the 
most part no one over the age of about 15 even pretends that any of 
these people have any real singing ability.

Marc Lindahl wrote
>
>Though, to be fair, you'd have to say that Country is also an American
>original, and traces it's heritage directly back to Blues.


Oh I don't know sometimes when I am listening to Irish and Celtic 
music I could swear I am hearing Blue Grass.



First you say:

>Though, I'd
>argue that there hasn't been innovation in Country in 30 or 40 years, since
>the lap steel became popular.  So in a way, Hip Hop, Jazz, and Country all

then you say:

>In my opinion,
>anyone who dislikes a genre is ignorant - there are good songs and bad songs
>in any of them.

I think it is a bit of a smear to say that there has been no 
innovation in in country music don't you.  Right now I have Danny 
Gatton -88 Elmira st. blasting.  I suggest you check it out.