The Logic Off Topic list

Hm, I don't think PCs suck.
From observing all kinda mailing lists it also seems to be a myth that a Mac
necessarily must be the only choice for pros, compared to a well-configured
PC.
Please note, I said "well-configured"!
This IMO is the major drawback, many PCs seem to need quite some tweaks
because of incompatible hardware and stuff like that - this might even go so
far that you'd have to replace an otherwise working piece of hardware.

Apart from that I don't think that Macs are faster generally.
Not too long ago I had to work on a Mac which is almost similar to my PC
from the specs and it defenitely wasn't any worse or better to work with it.
It only crashed two times, something my PC almost never does - as said, it's
all a matter of configuration and with PCs you just have too many things to
choose from, so softwarecompanies never get the chance to optimize things
for certain important parts of your hardware (mainboards, CPUs, graphic
cards). This might be the reason why Macs are said to be more stable.

Bottom line: If it works, it works.

And then (well, maybe the importance of this is depending on how much pro
you are): You will find a huge amount of nice little apps for Windows to
choose from. Just have a look at my VST plugin folder... costs me nothing
but is still nice - there even are no commercial counterparts for Mac users.

Well, after all I don't really care, if I had a Mac I would be doing similar
things and if I ever would run into a situation where I had to work with my
machine in front of clients I also would have no problem if this was a PC.

Sascha
(oh btw, I love my two mousbuttons, no multibutton mouse will ever give me a
scissor, a velocitytool etc. instantly)

I would have thought the end result (ie a well recorded and produced piece
of music) depends more on the man (or woman) than on the machine.

Dont forget, you'll have to learn how a Mac works and may have to change
some gizmos (such as Midi interfaces, dongles etc) for the USB/firewire
equivalents, and we have all heard that these can cause problems.

Cheers

John

Groovey band website
http://www.grooveyband.co.uk/

mail to : chickenjohn@...
----- Original Message -----
From: Sascha Franck <saschafranck@...>
To: <logic-ot@egroups.com>
Sent: 15 December 2000 19:12
Subject: Re: [L-OT] Re: OT: do PC's really suck?!


> Hm, I don't think PCs suck.
> From observing all kinda mailing lists it also seems to be a myth that a
Mac
> necessarily must be the only choice for pros, compared to a
well-configured
> PC.
> Please note, I said "well-configured"!
> This IMO is the major drawback, many PCs seem to need quite some tweaks
> because of incompatible hardware and stuff like that - this might even go
so
> far that you'd have to replace an otherwise working piece of hardware.
>
> Apart from that I don't think that Macs are faster generally.
> Not too long ago I had to work on a Mac which is almost similar to my PC
> from the specs and it defenitely wasn't any worse or better to work with
it.
> It only crashed two times, something my PC almost never does - as said,
it's
> all a matter of configuration and with PCs you just have too many things
to
> choose from, so softwarecompanies never get the chance to optimize things
> for certain important parts of your hardware (mainboards, CPUs, graphic
> cards). This might be the reason why Macs are said to be more stable.
>
> Bottom line: If it works, it works.
>
> And then (well, maybe the importance of this is depending on how much pro
> you are): You will find a huge amount of nice little apps for Windows to
> choose from. Just have a look at my VST plugin folder... costs me nothing
> but is still nice - there even are no commercial counterparts for Mac
users.
>
> Well, after all I don't really care, if I had a Mac I would be doing
similar
> things and if I ever would run into a situation where I had to work with
my
> machine in front of clients I also would have no problem if this was a PC.
>
> Sascha
> (oh btw, I love my two mousbuttons, no multibutton mouse will ever give me
a

> scissor, a velocitytool etc. instantly)
>
>
>
>
>
>

I was not trying to be unhelpful -- just brief(ish).

For what it's worth, I am a PC user. Always have been. Always will be. I,
personally, have never seen anything in the Macs that have been sufficient
to motivate me to switch from PC's to Mac's. It did use to be the case that
there was far more, and far more quality, software available music-wise for
the Mac ... but this is no longer really true. The PC userbase is so vast
compared to the Mac one that any software house wanting to make serious
sales ultimately ports over to the PC. Yes ... there are one or two nice
pieces of exclusively Mac software -- but honestly nothing to make me 'jump
ship'.

My feeling (and advice) -- if you are already on the PC side and happy, then
stay there. I simply suggested a visit (and not necessarily incognito) to a
Mac music-making facility because with the negative comments you have and
the experience you now have, you would be able to ask some very savvy
questions that would give you some hands-on and personal interaction with
Macs and Mac software.

It has got to the point, now, where this is a feeling thing as much as
anything else. Who knows ... you might walk into a Mac studio and
immediately fall in love with it and want to switch. Nothing wrong with
that. Personally, I've looked at both options and I've seen nothing that
might make me want to switch.

I'm with Sascha here. At the end of the day, it doesn't make a hoot of
difference what you're working on. If it works sufficiently well to keep you
happy and let you do what you want to do, why switch. Hey ... so the
occasional 'guest' comes to your 'hotel' and insults your 'decor'. Well ...
they don't have to come back, do they? That's their choice. And if you want
their business, then just smile sweetly, say nothing, and keep on doing what
you're doing. Having guests who complain is a part of the cost of doing that
kind of business.

I apologise, again, if I seemed to have been blowing you off before. I was
just trying to say that the only way to really make your own mind up is to
have some personal experience, and the best way to do that is to visit
somewhere.

OK??!!!


----- Original Message -----

From: <loopmusic@...>
To: <logic-ot@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 10:19 AM
Subject: [L-OT] Re: OT: do PC's really suck?!


> > Since this is your profession??, why not make your own mind up?
>
> Opening a pro studio came about by accident and the work/equipment
> really piled up before having an opportunity to really assess what I
> was doing... changing over to a Mac wasn't an issue before.
>
> What is the immediate advantage of buying a machine which is
> comparable to a PC half the price? It can't just be a question of
> speed (which is forever increasing)? The quality of the sound would
> be no better? The user interface looks the same as windows? They seem
> to crash on the same regular basis and both have their quirks?
>
> Why? KAB - I take it you are a Mac user; why did you get one?
> [don't give the answer - "cause every other studio uses them; they
> must be good" - I heard it before :)]
>
> The reason I am asking is that my studio is ready for upgrade &
> either I start planning my next PC or get hold of a Dual G4...
> looking for constructive user feedback.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hi,

> I would have thought the end result (ie a well recorded and produced piece
> of music) depends more on the man (or woman) than on the machine.

EXACTLY!!!

> Dont forget, you'll have to learn how a Mac works and may have to change
> some gizmos

I have a PC in my project studio and in most pro studios where I work, they have
Mac. So, I work on both. I'll never change to Mac myself though... but I don't
mind working on it. Both systems work well, so if you're happy, stick to your
system.

Ciao,
Joeri
--
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

> I was not trying to be unhelpful -- just brief(ish).

No worries; I just got off the phone to a collegue who'd been 
slagging off the studio all morning, then read your mail which I took 
the wrong way. Apologies from me.

Thanks all for the comments; I am entirely for music first and 
equipment second; and when it comes to synths & samplers I rarley 
give a hoot what other studios use. 

I'll be sticking with the PC; if anyones' interested I'll be posting 
the spec here for anyone who wants to reference against it (Logic & 
Digi001 system).

> OK??!!!

:)

Hello

    From the test we saw in the press, a dual G4 500 MHz is some times
faster than a dual Pentium III at 1 Ghz. (test made with Photoshop, at
that time the only software running using the 2 processors)

    The MAC OS is so much simple to handle. I had a friend that was
obliged to do a clean install (scratching windows) every other month
otherwise he had plenty crashes, this friend of mine when to MAC, he is
now a happy user.

    I have installed to my sister a Performa 5 year ago, I never had to
re-install anything on her MAC. I have bought my G4 a year and a half
ago, I never had to re-install MAC OS !! I keep upgrading it every month
with all the patches available (it's an automatic procedure !)

    If you want to play with config.sys, autoexec.bat win.ini etc....
buy a PC.

    If you want a plug and play machine buy a MAC.

    I use my Mac G4/400 to make music, I do not want to spend half of my
time doing "system" work.

Cyril

loopmusic@... wrote:

> > Since this is your profession??, why not make your own mind up?
>
> Opening a pro studio came about by accident and the work/equipment
> really piled up before having an opportunity to really assess what I
> was doing... changing over to a Mac wasn't an issue before.
>
> What is the immediate advantage of buying a machine which is
> comparable to a PC half the price? It can't just be a question of
> speed (which is forever increasing)? The quality of the sound would
> be no better? The user interface looks the same as windows? They seem
> to crash on the same regular basis and both have their quirks?
>
> Why? KAB - I take it you are a Mac user; why did you get one?
> [don't give the answer - "cause every other studio uses them; they
> must be good" - I heard it before :)]
>
> The reason I am asking is that my studio is ready for upgrade &
> either I start planning my next PC or get hold of a Dual G4...
> looking for constructive user feedback.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> (test made with Photoshop,

THE Mac test: Photoshop is THE Mac program. :-) Aargh... I never though I'd
get into this discussion again. :-)

> I had a friend that was
> obliged to do a clean install (scratching windows) every other month
> otherwise he had plenty crashes

That's because he messed with software, not because of the system. Try
installing all kinds of freeware on any computer and eventually you'll want
to reformat.

>     If you want to play with config.sys, autoexec.bat win.ini etc....
> buy a PC.
>     If you want a plug and play machine buy a MAC.

That's indeed correct: a PC needs more fine tuning!

>     I use my Mac G4/400 to make music, I do not want to spend half of my
> time doing "system" work.

I've set the system settings once and haven't touched them in over a year.
BTW: the rme-audio.com website mentiones all "tweaks" that are recommended.
It might give you a good idea of what it takes to make a PC a good audio
machine.

I've seen Pc's crashing, I've seen G4's crashing.... I've heard good music
made on a Pc, I've heard good music made on a Mac, I've heard good music
played by a band. ;-) It doesn't matter what you use, it all comes to making
music in the end.

Bye,
Joeri

--
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM