The Logic Off Topic list

I upgraded from LAG to LAP 2 months before the deal
was made public. Now, you can't tell me that no one at
Emagic knew at the very least talks were going between
them and Apple. I have no doubt that even there own
people were kept in the dark. Knowing all to well that
if word leaked out of just the possibility of LA
becoming an Apple product, not many windows versions
would be sold. Making as much as they could off this
product was priority #1. Part of the attraction for me
to upgrade(whether it's in the liscencing agreement or
not) was the forknowledge of recieving updates and
bugfixes on a periodic basis. If you had taken that
away I would have stuck with LAG and been completely
happy. Lord knows I recieved my monies worth out of
that version. I then would have moved on to something
else with no regrets or complaints.
                   Not pissed off,just pissed on,
                                  Steve

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>  I upgraded from LAG to LAP 2 months before the deal
>was made public. Now, you can't tell me that no one at
>Emagic knew at the very least talks were going between
>them and Apple.

It's in fact quite possible that no one knew.  Rumor has it apple was 
trying to buy digidesign and when that deal did not happen they 
courted and bought e-magic.  The deal may have gone down very 
quickly.  You and I have no way of knowing.

>I have no doubt that even there own
>people were kept in the dark. Knowing all to well that
>if word leaked out of just the possibility of LA
>becoming an Apple product, not many windows versions
>would be sold. Making as much as they could off this
>product was priority #1.

If that were the case then why did they make the announcement at all? 
They could have just silently stopped development of LAW and gone on 
selling it until October 1st at which time they could have simply 
stopped without saying anything at all.  Why didn't they do that? 
They could have silently stopped development of LAW at any time but 
they continue to this day.  Why?

>Part of the attraction for me
>to upgrade(whether it's in the liscencing agreement or
>not) was the forknowledge of recieving updates and
>bugfixes on a periodic basis.

Perhaps that was the attraction for you but, no matter what else that 
is, it is pure presumption on your part.   If your decision to buy 
something is based on the assumption that it is going to turn into 
something else better that is not the fault of the people selling it 
who say over and over and over again that they are selling it as is 
and are making no promises about upgrades.


Based on the real world observations it silly to even expect the 
upgrades are always going to be what you want anyway even when they 
do come.   I can't tell you the number of things that I have hoped 
would be implemented or fixed that simply never have been.  There was 
a lot of midi stuff in Studio vision 14 years ago that was better 
implemented than the implementation in LAP.  The fact of the matter 
is that development is often in areas that are unimportant or totally 
irrelevant to many of us and the stuff we hope for the most gets 
neglected for years at a time.


>If you had taken that
>away I would have stuck with LAG and been completely
>happy. Lord knows I recieved my monies worth out of
>that version.

Then I assume you will get monies worth out of this one too if you know how.



>I then would have moved on to something
>else with no regrets or complaints.

Yeah, right.  The bottom line is you made a deal with e-magic and 
they held up their end bargain and in fact have kept on delivering 
and continue to this day to deliver stuff you didn't and will never 
pay for.  Did you or do you give them anything in return for the free 
LAWP upgrades that continue to come?  No, you just call them thieves.

>                    Not pissed off,just pissed on,
>                                   Steve

I don't know how old you are but if that is what what you call 
getting pissed on then I am sorry to say you have a lot of unpleasant 
growing up ahead.

The attitude reminds of a 30 year old breast feeder biting his 
mommy's tit and punching her in the face when she finally tells him 
she is just too old to feed him that way anymore.

--- Dennis Gunn <dennisg@...> wrote:
> > 
> The attitude reminds of a 30 year old breast feeder
> biting his 
> mommy's tit and punching her in the face when she
> finally tells him 
> she is just too old to feed him that way anymore.



  I give in. The left side of my brain is in shock and
the right is just numb!
              Later,
                steve

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>>  I upgraded from LAG to LAP 2 months before the deal
>>was made public. Now, you can't tell me that no one at
>>Emagic knew at the very least talks were going between
>>them and Apple.
>
>It's in fact quite possible that no one knew.  Rumor has it apple was 
>trying to buy digidesign and when that deal did not happen they 
>courted and bought e-magic.  The deal may have gone down very 
>quickly.  You and I have no way of knowing.

First of all, any negotiations would have been secret. What if the word had 
gotten out about the talks, and then people stopped buying LAW, then the 
talks broke down. Then Emagic would be screwed both ways. This is standard 
operating procedure - in all business dealings of this sort. In fact, there 
was undboutably non-disclosure agreements signed as a first step. Nothing at 
all is wrong with that.

The only thing I think was discourteous was.... once the deal was decided... 
that we find out in a terse web statement. Since millions of dollars and 
hundreds of thousands of users are involved, it would have been wise, 
courteous, and good business sense - to announce it in a nice way, with some 
plans for the LAW cross grade already thought out. Apple screwed up by 
stirring everyone up unnecessarily.

However, as I said before, Apple is doing a number of borderline crap things 
- trying to copy Micro$oft's greedy bully tactics.

> First of all, any negotiations would have been secret. What if the 
word had 
> gotten out about the talks, and then people stopped buying LAW, 
then the 
> talks broke down. Then Emagic would be screwed both ways. 

I guess we'll have to wait 'till dr. Lengeling publishes his memoires.


> The only thing I think was discourteous was.... once the deal was 
decided... 
> that we find out in a terse web statement. Since millions of 
dollars and 
> hundreds of thousands of users are involved, it would have been 
wise, 
> courteous, and good business sense - to announce it in a nice way, 
with some 
> plans for the LAW cross grade already thought out. Apple screwed up 
by 
> stirring everyone up unnecessarily.

Exactly: bad timimg, bad information. Customer relations management 
has never been Emagic's strongest point.

>The only thing I think was discourteous was.... once the deal was decided...
>that we find out in a terse web statement. Since millions of dollars and
>hundreds of thousands of users are involved, it would have been wise,
>courteous, and good business sense - to announce it in a nice way, with some
>plans for the LAW cross grade already thought out. Apple screwed up by
>stirring everyone up unnecessarily.

I absolutely agree with this.  They should have made their statement 
a little less ambiguous and open to interpretation.

>However, as I said before, Apple is doing a number of borderline crap things
>- trying to copy Micro$oft's greedy bully tactics.

They have always done some pretty annoying things.  That's why 
everyone was so happy and optimistic back in the clone days.  The 
problem was the clones nearly put them out of business.

>> biting ... tit and punching her in the face
 
     =8v0

I'll have to try that next saturday night

>  >> biting ... tit and punching her in the face
>
>      =8v0
>
>I'll have to try that next saturday night

Planning a bite out on the town?