Yahoo Groups archive

The Logic Off Topic list

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 23:27 UTC

Thread

Re: [L-OT] Backup Issues

Re: [L-OT] Backup Issues

2003-04-22 by Oblivian | Bacteria AS

Hans Hafner wrote:
> Do you give them a drive with all the files on it and tell them, this
> is it, make as many backups as you can, so that the data always
> exists.

Why do you give the RAW files to a client? I think the client is only
entitled to a "master", but that depends on each contract I guess. Also, it
depends on what projects you are refering to, studio sessions or what...?

In regard to backups, I use a "semi"-secure method. I have a second
computer/server with lots of GB and run automated mirroring (of my work
machine) every four hours. Finnished jobs I burn out on DVD's, and really,
that's not the "best way I think, because the DVD/CD media is too fragile in
nature. A more reliable media like tape's etc. is better I think.

All the best.

Re: [L-OT] Backup Issues

2003-04-22 by Hans Hafner

At 11:02 Uhr +0200 22.04.2003, Oblivian | Bacteria AS wrote:
>Why do you give the RAW files to a client? I think the client is only
>entitled to a "master", but that depends on each contract I guess. Also, it
>depends on what projects you are refering to, studio sessions or what...?

Say you produced their album and ten or twenty years down the line 
(I'm not in the business that long, but one of my clients/colleagues 
is) they need a remix and you've lost their production due to a 
serious hardware crash (I am not making this up unfortunately...)

Wouldn't it then be better to tell them, well... you had the stuff... 
not that it's about the blame game, but if you produce several 
artists a year, all this can add up and be a huge responsibility (I'm 
talking careers of the artists obviously) and maybe even result in 
some legal issues...

Anyway, I'm rambling, but this is rather serious..

Cheers
Hans

Re: [L-OT] Backup Issues

2003-04-22 by Oblivian | Bacteria AS

> At 11:02 Uhr +0200 22.04.2003, Oblivian | Bacteria AS wrote:
>> Why do you give the RAW files to a client? I think the client is only
>> entitled to a "master", but that depends on each contract I guess.
>> Also, it depends on what projects you are refering to, studio
>> sessions or what...?

Hans Hafner wrote:
> Say you produced their album and ten or twenty years down the line
> (I'm not in the business that long, but one of my clients/colleagues
> is) they need a remix and you've lost their production due to a
> serious hardware crash (I am not making this up unfortunately...)

Seriously, I don't think it is your responsibility to safeguard their
recordings. There are a hundred different reasons for the material to get
lost, backruptcy for one. It can only be the artists responsibility to make
sure he has all the raw material for his recording.

On-the-fly-backups are only important to avoid halt in the actual production
progress. Not for you to be the "National Library" so to speak. ;-)

> Wouldn't it then be better to tell them, well... you had the stuff...
> not that it's about the blame game, <snip>

Yes!

Re: [L-OT] Backup Issues

2003-04-22 by Hans Hafner

At 12:11 Uhr +0200 22.04.2003, Oblivian | Bacteria AS wrote:
>  >> Why do you give the RAW files to a client? I think the client is only
>>>  entitled to a "master", but that depends on each contract I guess.
>>>  Also, it depends on what projects you are refering to, studio
>  >> sessions or what...?
>

and then later wrote:

>Seriously, I don't think it is your responsibility to safeguard their
>recordings. There are a hundred different reasons for the material to get
>lost, backruptcy for one. It can only be the artists responsibility to make
>sure he has all the raw material for his recording.

Sorry if I'm a nitpick, but aren't you contradicting yourself?

but I'm glad you see it the same way I do if I go by your last post. 
Give them the raw stuff, all the takes, all the session files 
(obviously not the sample library used, but if I loose that, then 
it's really my problem...)

Cheers
Hans

Re: [L-OT] Backup Issues

2003-04-22 by Oblivian | Bacteria AS

Hans Hafner wrote:
> Sorry if I'm a nitpick, but aren't you contradicting yourself?

Hehe! Yes, and no... It depends on the situation and the contract. Like for
me, when I record my stuff and have the record company pay for the actual
production, I only give them the right to the master (copyright), and not
the raw files. You can say, I am an artist making sure I have my material,
like the artists should have done in your collegues case.

Re: [L-OT] Backup Issues

2003-04-25 by John Pitcairn

Here's how I handle archiving of clients' graphic design projects
(which can run to gigabytes):

At the end of a project, the client gets whatever is needed for them
to use the results. This usually means a collected Quark document or a
composite PDF file, on CD. The client may request additional files, in
which case I provide them and charge time and media for doing so.

All work, including the finished product and all intermediate art etc,
is then archived (to CD-R currently, but this will change) using
Retrospect, and removed from my hard drives. I do this archiving at no
cost to the client, and I make it clear that while I make every effort
to ensure the longevity of the data, I do not guarantee the integrity
of the archive at any time and will not be responsible for any data
loss beyond this point. That said, my archive stretches back to 1995
and has been fully retrievable so far.

If the client wishes to maintain their own archive I will provide them
with all or selected files (at their cost as above), while still
maintaining my own archive - many of my clients are incapable of
storing anything for more than a few days/weeks/months without
misplacing it or providing their only copy to third parties...

Should the client require any data retrieved from my archive, all time
and materials involved in doing so are chargeable, whether the
searching/retrieval is successful or not.

Finally, it's the client's data, stored on my media. They cannot
request the actual archive media, as it contains data from many
clients. I cannot use their data for any purpose without their express
permission or instructions.

In addition to the above, I make daily incremental backups of live
data to 2 alternating sets of DLT tape, maintaining a backup history
of approximately 2 months per set before recycling the tape media at
alternating months per set.

As noted in previous posts on the subject on the main list, I do NOT
trust hard drives as a suitable backup or archiving medium. Have you
seen the current warranties on large hard drives? Not
confidence-inspiring...

John Pitcairn

------------------------------------------------------------------
Midi controller learn in Logic. Soft takeover. Lots of memories. 
Tracks remember control assignments. Write track automation.
Fadermapper environment demo: http://www.revolver.co.nz/fadermapper/
------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [L-OT] Backup Issues

2003-04-25 by Oblivian | Bacteria AS

John Pitcairn wrote:
> In addition to the above, I make daily incremental backups of live
> data to 2 alternating sets of DLT tape, maintaining a backup history
> of approximately 2 months per set before recycling the tape media at
> alternating months per set.

What's the largest tape streamers you get these days?

Re: [L-OT] Backup Issues

2003-04-25 by Oblivian | Bacteria AS

John Pitcairn wrote:
> In addition to the above, I make daily incremental backups of live
> data to 2 alternating sets of DLT tape, maintaining a backup history
> of approximately 2 months per set before recycling the tape media at
> alternating months per set.

From todays' /.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/04/24/1921205

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.