The Logic Off Topic list

You know there are some very cool new programs out there now.
Garageband, which I haven't bought...yet...

 

Mackie has put out Traktion and one of the cool features is the ability
to apply effects to only part of an audio region.

 

They also announced a bunch of cool new gear at NAMM.  All gearheads and
tech-junkies should check it out.

 

pfokus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

I know most people don't care about heavy metal anymore...but i do!!!

I was wondering if anyone on this list has mixed any speed metal bands.

I'm looking for some tips on how to keep definition in the drums when
they're played at 170 or 180 bpms.  I'm especially having trouble keeping my
kicks from sounding muddy.

How do you maintain bass response AND definition in a kick drum when it's
played so fast?  Many professionally recorded speed metal albums do this so
well.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in Advance,
Jon Zaremba
http://www.jonzaremba.com
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"Save the Universe" wrote:

>  I'm especially having trouble keeping my kicks from sounding muddy.
> 
First of all, if the drummer doesn't play well, the kit isn't tuned 
well, and the room isn't right for tracking drums, you are quite 
possibly, to use a time honoured phrase, "polishing a turd".

If all these very important factors are taken care of, look at how 
you mike the drums. For the kick, you need to pay special attention 
to getting plenty of attack for the sound you are going for. As well 
as miking in front of, or inside the drum, try pointing a mike down 
at the beater, behind the drum. Pointing it down will help reject 
some of the sound from the snare, HH and rest of kit, and this should 
help capture more of the attack of the beater striking the head. Try 
an SM 57 for this. The type of beater is important too - wood 
striking one of those "click pads" will give you lots more attack. In 
front of the drum - long list - AKG 112 or even C 414, Sennheiser 
421, E 602. Shure Beta 52, they have a PZM that works well here. 
Electro voice RE 20, Audio Technica 4050, Neumann TLM 103, 170, and 
many many more ...

You will very likely have a phasing issue using mikes in front of and 
behind the drum, something to watch out for. 

I like to have some mikes in the room - I tend to start with an MS 
pair 10 - 15 feet out in front of the drums, preferably a nice pair 
of large diaphragm condensers - but move the mikes around, till you 
find what sounds best. In many cases, this can help layer the various 
multi tracked instruments better than adding artificial 'verb later - 
IF the room is up to it! You may want to time correct these tracks 
later.

When mixing, be careful when boosting low frequencies. While it is 
common practice to boost around 62 Hz, watch out for the 200-500 Hz 
area, which can usually take a cut. Of course, you will probably be 
adding some highs to accentuate the attack - esp. if you don't use 
that mike for the beater. Don't take any of this as gospel though - 
let your ears decide. While it is very convenient to use a DAW where 
you can see all the settings displayed as nice EQ curves, it can be 
misleading. Don't look at the EQ - hear it ;-).

> How do you maintain bass response AND definition in a kick drum 
> when it's played so fast?  Many professionally recorded speed metal 
> albums do this so well.

Listen to them again - I think you might find that there isn't that 
much deep bass in the kick drum sound - it slows everything down, and 
muddies up the bottom end ...

HTH kind regards

Mark Cahill

On 23 Jan 2004, at 03:59, Save the Universe wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I know most people don't care about heavy metal anymore...but i do!!!
>
> I was wondering if anyone on this list has mixed any speed metal bands.
>
> I'm looking for some tips on how to keep definition in the drums when
> they're played at 170 or 180 bpms.  I'm especially having trouble 
> keeping my
> kicks from sounding muddy.
>
> How do you maintain bass response AND definition in a kick drum when 
> it's
> played so fast?  Many professionally recorded speed metal albums do 
> this so
> well.
>
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks in Advance,
> Jon Zaremba
> http://www.jonzaremba.com
> ---

Hi,

I'd like to add here that many heavy metal drummers glue a large 
(silver dollar? Euros are too small...) coin or something similar to 
their click pad on the skin of the kick drum for extra attack.

Cheers,

Recky
________________________________________________________
Fortéfied Productions
tel: +49-228-34 62 23
mob: +49-173-51 577 57
recky@...

Also, many use drum triggers on the kick (and snare) and then just pick the
best sounding kick or snare from your drum machine/drum brain for that song
and mix it with the mic'd signal.

Dana
HorrorMetal.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "recky reck" <recky@...>
To: <logic-ot@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 3:34 AM
Subject: Re: [L-OT] Heavy Metal Drum Mixing



On 23 Jan 2004, at 03:59, Save the Universe wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I know most people don't care about heavy metal anymore...but i do!!!
>
> I was wondering if anyone on this list has mixed any speed metal bands.
>
> I'm looking for some tips on how to keep definition in the drums when
> they're played at 170 or 180 bpms.  I'm especially having trouble
> keeping my
> kicks from sounding muddy.
>
> How do you maintain bass response AND definition in a kick drum when
> it's
> played so fast?  Many professionally recorded speed metal albums do
> this so
> well.
>
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks in Advance,
> Jon Zaremba
> http://www.jonzaremba.com
> ---

Hi,

I'd like to add here that many heavy metal drummers glue a large
(silver dollar? Euros are too small...) coin or something similar to
their click pad on the skin of the kick drum for extra attack.

Cheers,

Recky
________________________________________________________
Fort\ufffdfied Productions
tel: +49-228-34 62 23
mob: +49-173-51 577 57
recky@...

>  "Save the Universe" wrote:
>   I'm especially having trouble keeping my kicks from sounding muddy.

If you're getting lots of constant "boom" building up from that
hi-tempo assault, first try to reduce it somewhat at the drum with
tuning and/or damping, different mics/placement etc.

In the mix, you might try a good multiband compressor/expander on the
kick track, set to expand (not compress) only the bass frequencies.
This is an good old standby for taming muddy overpowering bass in
general, less evil than outright gating the kick, and should reduce
the amount of post-EQ needed.

John Pitcairn

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