Lpc2000

Hi All,

I posted this question some time ago, but to no avail.
I can't seem to find , or am looking in the wrong place :
Does anyone know what the Flash Endurance is on LPC2106/14/24 ?
10k EW ? 100 K EW ?


Best regards,
Kris
www.microbit.com.au

--- In lpc2100@yahoogroups.com, "microbit" <microbit@c...> wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I posted this question some time ago, but to no avail.
> I can't seem to find , or am looking in the wrong place :
> Does anyone know what the Flash Endurance is on LPC2106/14/24 ?
> 10k EW ? 100 K EW ?

Perhps it's similar to that on their 80C51 chips - 10,000 min. cycles
per byte.

Leon

> > I posted this question some time ago, but to no avail.
> > I can't seem to find , or am looking in the wrong place :
> > Does anyone know what the Flash Endurance is on LPC2106/14/24 ?
> > 10k EW ? 100 K EW ?
>
> Perhps it's similar to that on their 80C51 chips - 10,000 min. cycles
> per byte.
>
> Leon

Hi Leon,

Thanks for the response !
We'll have to ask Philips I guess, as I assume that implies it indeed isn't
specified yet.

Best regards,
Kris

Hi Kris
 
This information is added in the October version of the UM. 

10,000 erase and write cycles are guaranteed per 512 byte line.
Check it out.
 
Bye

microbit <microbit@...> wrote:
Hi All,

I posted this question some time ago, but to no avail.
I can't seem to find , or am looking in the wrong place :
Does anyone know what the Flash Endurance is on LPC2106/14/24 ?
10k EW ? 100 K EW ?


Best regards,
Kris
www.microbit.com.au


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Thanks Amit !
Will check what version UM  I have.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Amit KB" <emailakb@...>
To: <lpc2100@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 4:29 AM
Subject: Re: [lpc2100] LPC2100 Flash Endurance


> Hi Kris
>  
> This information is added in the October version of the UM. 
> 
> 10,000 erase and write cycles are guaranteed per 512 byte line.
> Check it out.
>  
> Bye

Hi  Kris
 
Further to my last email. Here is the link to the UM
http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/acrobat/usermanuals/UM_LPC2106_2105_2104_2.pdf

There are currently two versions online and this is the one I am referring to.Its in the Supports and tools section on the pip page of LPC2106.
 
Regards
Amit
 
 

microbit <microbit@...> wrote:
Hi All,

I posted this question some time ago, but to no avail.
I can't seem to find , or am looking in the wrong place :
Does anyone know what the Flash Endurance is on LPC2106/14/24 ?
10k EW ? 100 K EW ?


Best regards,
Kris
www.microbit.com.au


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
lpc2100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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Hi,

as usual, Philips specification is rather conservative. Under very
simple lab conditions in an automated test we did not see any failures
within 500,000 cycles. This was just done as a sanity check. So under
"normal" conditions, which is that not all reprogramming cycles will
happen at maximum temperature, the number of reprogramming cycles will
be 1 or 2 orders of magnitude higher than the specified 10,000 cycles.
I guess this is where the difference between the marketing statement
"our device can do 1 Mio cycles" and the worst case specification "we
guarantee (under worst case conditions) 10k cycles" comes into the game. 

Bob

--- In lpc2100@yahoogroups.com, "microbit" <microbit@c...> wrote:

> Thanks Amit !
> Will check what version UM  I have.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Amit KB" <emailakb@y...>
> To: <lpc2100@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 4:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [lpc2100] LPC2100 Flash Endurance
> 
> 
> > Hi Kris
> >  
> > This information is added in the October version of the UM. 
> > 
> > 10,000 erase and write cycles are guaranteed per 512 byte line.
> > Check it out.
> >  
> > Bye

Thanks for the clarification Bob.
Flash endurance performance at high temperatures always seems to be an issue
where manufacturers just *don't* provide characterisation :-)

B regards,
Kris



----- Original Message -----

From: "lpc2100_fan" <lpc2100_fan@...>
To: <lpc2100@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 5:13 AM
Subject: [lpc2100] Re: LPC2100 Flash Endurance // own test results


> Hi,
>
> as usual, Philips specification is rather conservative. Under very
> simple lab conditions in an automated test we did not see any failures
> within 500,000 cycles. This was just done as a sanity check. So under
> "normal" conditions, which is that not all reprogramming cycles will
> happen at maximum temperature, the number of reprogramming cycles will
> be 1 or 2 orders of magnitude higher than the specified 10,000 cycles.
> I guess this is where the difference between the marketing statement
> "our device can do 1 Mio cycles" and the worst case specification "we
> guarantee (under worst case conditions) 10k cycles" comes into the game.
>
> Bob
>
> --- In lpc2100@yahoogroups.com, "microbit" <microbit@c...> wrote:
> > Thanks Amit !
> > Will check what version UM  I have.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Amit KB" <emailakb@y...>
> > To: <lpc2100@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 4:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: [lpc2100] LPC2100 Flash Endurance
> >
> >
> > > Hi Kris
> > >
> > > This information is added in the October version of the UM.
> > >
> > > 10,000 erase and write cycles are guaranteed per 512 byte line.
> > > Check it out.
> > >
> > > Bye
>
>
>       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>             ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> lpc2100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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>

--- In lpc2100@yahoogroups.com, "lpc2100_fan" <lpc2100_fan@y...> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> as usual, Philips specification is rather conservative. Under very
> simple lab conditions in an automated test we did not see any failures
> within 500,000 cycles. This was just done as a sanity check. So under
> "normal" conditions, which is that not all reprogramming cycles will
> happen at maximum temperature, the number of reprogramming cycles will
> be 1 or 2 orders of magnitude higher than the specified 10,000 cycles.
> I guess this is where the difference between the marketing statement
> "our device can do 1 Mio cycles" and the worst case specification "we
> guarantee (under worst case conditions) 10k cycles" comes into the
game. 


Something I've thought of doing so that I can continuously update
values in non-volatile memory like Flash or EEPROM with a limited
lifetime is to keep writing to the same location and testing until
that location fails, then moving on to the next location. I'm not sure
how reliable this technique would be, though.

Leon

Leon,

don't forget to erase the cell between 2 write cycles ;-)  Seriously,
you could assign e.g. 512 bytes as EEPROM simulation cells and write
sequentially. Unfortunately I've been told that you need to erase the
cells between several consecutive writes into the same 512 byte page
of the LPC2106. To be more exact, writing 2-3 times seems OK but doing
more than 5 write cycles without erase generates reliability problems.
As I understand, the erase is like a re-calibration of the flash cells.

Hope this helps, Bob

--- In lpc2100@yahoogroups.com, "leon_heller" <leon_heller@h...> wrote:

> --- In lpc2100@yahoogroups.com, "lpc2100_fan" <lpc2100_fan@y...> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > as usual, Philips specification is rather conservative. Under very
> > simple lab conditions in an automated test we did not see any failures
> > within 500,000 cycles. This was just done as a sanity check. So under
> > "normal" conditions, which is that not all reprogramming cycles will
> > happen at maximum temperature, the number of reprogramming cycles will
> > be 1 or 2 orders of magnitude higher than the specified 10,000 cycles.
> > I guess this is where the difference between the marketing statement
> > "our device can do 1 Mio cycles" and the worst case specification "we
> > guarantee (under worst case conditions) 10k cycles" comes into the
> game. 
> 
> 
> Something I've thought of doing so that I can continuously update
> values in non-volatile memory like Flash or EEPROM with a limited
> lifetime is to keep writing to the same location and testing until
> that location fails, then moving on to the next location. I'm not sure
> how reliable this technique would be, though.
> 
> Leon

Hi Bob,

I would presume that a page with some programmed zero bits, but most still
erased
bytes at 0xff can still be program those 0xFF bytes to another value ?
(ie without an erase cycle)
Otherwise that'd be kind of a problem, having to erase a page each time you
want to store a
couple of bytes ???

Best regards,
Kris



----- Original Message -----

From: "lpc2100_fan" <lpc2100_fan@...>
To: <lpc2100@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 8:53 AM
Subject: [lpc2100] Re: LPC2100 Flash Endurance // own test results


> Leon,
>
> don't forget to erase the cell between 2 write cycles ;-)  Seriously,
> you could assign e.g. 512 bytes as EEPROM simulation cells and write
> sequentially. Unfortunately I've been told that you need to erase the
> cells between several consecutive writes into the same 512 byte page
> of the LPC2106. To be more exact, writing 2-3 times seems OK but doing
> more than 5 write cycles without erase generates reliability problems.
> As I understand, the erase is like a re-calibration of the flash cells.
>
> Hope this helps, Bob