Lpc2000

Hi, Folks,

Has anyone tried these chips in a very high temp environment, around 
150C, typical downhole in the gas and oil industry ? How do they 
fare ?

Thanks a lot,

Lei

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "fl429" <fl429@y...> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Folks,
> 
> Has anyone tried these chips in a very high temp environment,
around 
> 150C, typical downhole in the gas and oil industry ? How do they 
> fare ?

Don't know, but ADI makes similar chips that are rated to 125C.  I
expect that might be a better starting point.  I got pricing on the
ADuC7024 of $9 for the full -40 to 125C version.  The analog IO on the
ADI parts is very good too.  Some have 16 bit ADC.  

There is an ADuC forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADuC_ARM

Lei,

this will be up to experiments not to specification from Philips I
guess. There will be no tested devices running at or above 150C but I
am very sure they run for a while. 
You will not have the chance to reprogram the Flash at least I would
not recommend to do that at 150C and these high temperatures are used
for stress test, aging the device with a factor of ?? (could be 10,
100 or more). 
I was present when this subject was discussed at an Embedded
Conference and those guys had used the LPC2106 and the LPC2129 for
similar tests and found the running several hours above 180C. If I
remember correctly they quit above 200C. You might have problems with
a desintegrating board at these temperatures anyhow. Am I correct that
you are talking hours / days at the max of operating life time or do
you expect months / years? If it is months, I doubt you will find a
lot of devices for these temp ranges. 


--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "fl429" <fl429@y...> wrote:

> 
> Hi, Folks,
> 
> Has anyone tried these chips in a very high temp environment, around 
> 150C, typical downhole in the gas and oil industry ? How do they 
> fare ?
> 
> Thanks a lot,
> 
> Lei

On Friday 11 February 2005 04:07, fl429 wrote:
> Hi, Folks,
>
> Has anyone tried these chips in a very high temp environment, around
> 150C, typical downhole in the gas and oil industry ? How do they
> fare ?
>
> Thanks a lot,

If parts are only rated to 70C or so, then running them at 150 would seem to 
be asking for trouble. I'd think that if you designed a 70C part into an 150C 
environment you'd find a bunch of lawyers gnawing on your bones pretty soon. 
I'd design in a higher-temp part or use peltier cooling etc to get the temp 
in the right range for the part.

There are some things you can do to promote reliable operation under higher 
temperatures. The most important is probably to run at slower clock speeds.

Can you put in a box that has insulation?

-----Original Message-----
From: fl429 [mailto:fl429@...] 
Sent: Friday, 11 February 2005 2:07 AM
To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [lpc2000] High Temp application




Hi, Folks,

Has anyone tried these chips in a very high temp environment, around 
150C, typical downhole in the gas and oil industry ? How do they 
fare ?

Thanks a lot,

Lei 

 





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, Charles Manning <manningc2@a...>
wrote:
> On Friday 11 February 2005 04:07, fl429 wrote:
> > Hi, Folks,
> >
> > Has anyone tried these chips in a very high temp environment,
around
> > 150C, typical downhole in the gas and oil industry ? How do they
> > fare ?
> >
> > Thanks a lot,
> 
> If parts are only rated to 70C or so, then running them at 150 would
seem to 
> be asking for trouble. I'd think that if you designed a 70C part
into an 150C 
> environment you'd find a bunch of lawyers gnawing on your bones
pretty soon. 
> I'd design in a higher-temp part or use peltier cooling etc to get
the temp 
> in the right range for the part.
> 
> There are some things you can do to promote reliable operation under
higher 
> temperatures. The most important is probably to run at slower clock
speeds.

I have never done downhole designs myself, but my understanding is
that they don't expect units to be long lived.  They can consider them
to be expendable if they work ok until they poop out.  As long as the
MTBF does not go to minutes, which I don't expect, running at 150 C
should be no biggie.  But like you said, the part will need to be run
at a slower speed because of the slower silicon speed at higher
temps.  

Peltier might be an interesting way to cool such a part, but they are
also semiconductor (not sure of the material) and may also poop out at
high temps.

We have internally qualified the CAN type devices (all that include a
"9") for operation up to 125C. 

The problems related to high temp are reduced speed and high stress /
shorter life of the devices. Different devices manufactured in the
same process will show very similar temperature behaviour. All LPC2000
devices available today, except the flashless versions, are
manufactured in the same flash process.

We can run our LPC2000 devices at 60 MHz with an ambient temperature
of 125C, nevertheless, there is no qualified test equipment for 150C
or higher that we would have available. 

As previously mentioned by other members, provided a few hours life
cycle combined with reduced speed, let's say 40-50 MHz, and no
reprogramming while hot, I would expect the devices to work properly.
 
Unfortunately Philips will not be able to guarantee operation under
these conditions. It is up to test runs at your end, sorry!

Hope this helps, Robert

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "fl429" <fl429@y...> wrote:

> 
> Hi, Folks,
> 
> Has anyone tried these chips in a very high temp environment, around 
> 150C, typical downhole in the gas and oil industry ? How do they 
> fare ?
> 
> Thanks a lot,
> 
> Lei