Lpc2000

Enough responses thankyou !!! 

I don't need any more help thank - I finished it last night with all lines connected and 1 cap under the chip with short lines to VSS and VDD lines + a 10uf elsewhere.

This is as good as a previous LCP2106 design (at only 14 MHz) and I have dozens of them running in the field. 

My replies to a few comments:

1.   "If you're struggling for space, why not use 0603 or smaller caps?" 
 
I am using 0603 - how else does own get a data logger with 4MBytes of Storage and an Display driver into 65x35mm (no bigger than the LCD).


2.   "I'm not trying to put anyone down, but software people normally 
needto learn a lot before attempting to do a hardware design."

Don't be a snob. I did all the circuit digrams for a DSP architecure in 
1980 with ttl chips while you were probably sucking on  ....

3.  "Is this a serious design or just to play with the chip ? If it is 
for playing than it is cheaper to buy an eval board (seeOlimex)"

I have an olimex 2106 board - they don't do a LPC2132. Thanks for the 
EMC reminder. I will try and get some ground plane under the Xtal and caps.

Owen Mooney

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, Owen Mooney <ojm@s...> wrote:
> Enough responses thankyou !!! 
> 
> I don't need any more help thank - I finished it last night with all
lines connected and 1 cap under the chip with short lines to VSS and
VDD lines + a 10uf elsewhere.
> 
> This is as good as a previous LCP2106 design (at only 14 MHz) and I
have dozens of them running in the field. 
> 
> My replies to a few comments:
> 
> 1.   "If you're struggling for space, why not use 0603 or smaller
caps?" 
>  
> I am using 0603 - how else does own get a data logger with 4MBytes
of Storage and an Display driver into 65x35mm (no bigger than the LCD).
> 
> 
> 2.   "I'm not trying to put anyone down, but software people normally 
> needto learn a lot before attempting to do a hardware design."
> 
> Don't be a snob. I did all the circuit digrams for a DSP architecure in 
> 1980 with ttl chips while you were probably sucking on  ....

Hey Owen, if you don't want help, then don't ask.  You said "I'm a
software engineer *learning* hardware".  Now you are saying that you
don't need help.  Please make up your mind.  My comment was clearly
trying to say I did NOT intend to offend.  So next time, if you are
going to be sensitive, please don't put your self down first, or at
least warn us that you don't really want the help.  

BTW, a single 0603 cap of 0.1 uF or similar is clearly not enough to
**properly** decouple a chip like this, especially on a 2 sided board.
 If you don't believe me, ask Philips.  One of the biggest mistakes
engineers (hardware AND software) make is thinking that because
something has worked in the past, that it must be right.  In my 25
years as an engineer I have seen a lot of people eat their words when
their "good enough" approach did not work in a new situation.  

And remember, ground bounce is NOT your friend.   :)

Rick,

Owen started the Thread I think he and only he has the right to set an
end to it.  He accepted the help and now he is saying, it's OK. What
about that is not OK?

Bob

> Hey Owen, if you don't want help, then don't ask.  You said "I'm a
> software engineer *learning* hardware".  Now you are saying that you
> don't need help.  Please make up your mind.  My comment was clearly
> trying to say I did NOT intend to offend.  So next time, if you are
> going to be sensitive, please don't put your self down first, or at
-------- snip ------------------

lpc2100_fan wrote:

>Owen started the Thread I think he and only he has the right to set an
>end to it.  He accepted the help and now he is saying, it's OK. What
>about that is not OK?
>

This is a public forum and the discussions end up benefiting others. 
There is no ownership of a thread, is there?. This is the first time I 
can remember that someone got a little cranky and said "ENOUGH!". Well, 
he can say that if he wants, although he could of said it in a nicer 
way, but what stops the rest of us of continuing the discussion?

Frankly, I find I glean "pearls of wisdom" from the discussions, little 
things I might not of thought of etc (thanks). Nobody has the right to 
end any thread for everybody else, the last word is the last word .... 
till the next time.


my2cents
*Peter*


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--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "lpc2100_fan" <lpc2100_fan@y...> wrote:
> 
> Rick,
> 
> Owen started the Thread I think he and only he has the right to set an
> end to it.  He accepted the help and now he is saying, it's OK. What
> about that is not OK?
> 
> Bob
> 
> > Hey Owen, if you don't want help, then don't ask.  You said "I'm a
> > software engineer *learning* hardware".  Now you are saying that you
> > don't need help.  Please make up your mind.  My comment was clearly
> > trying to say I did NOT intend to offend.  So next time, if you are
> > going to be sensitive, please don't put your self down first, or at

I was probably being a little sensitive myself, but I didn't
appreciate his comment, "Don't be a snob." in reply to my post.  

I think the issue came from his statement about being a software
person "learning" hardware.  I assumed that he was a novice and
actually needed help on the basics of decoupling.  This is a difficult
to master area and a lot of designers only do a "good enough" job
which really isn't.  I was trying to make that point and apparently
Owen felt he was being talked down to which is not what I intended.  

I have posted enough about this.  I'm done.

On 10 Feb 2005 at 3:09, Rick Collins wrote:

> 
> 
> --- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, Owen Mooney <ojm@s...> wrote:
> > Enough responses thankyou !!! 
> > 
> > I don't need any more help thank - I finished it last night with all
> lines connected and 1 cap under the chip with short lines to VSS and
> VDD lines + a 10uf elsewhere. > > This is as good as a previous
> LCP2106 design (at only 14 MHz) and I have dozens of them running in
> the field. > > My replies to a few comments: > > 1.   "If you're
> struggling for space, why not use 0603 or smaller caps?" >  > I am
> using 0603 - how else does own get a data logger with 4MBytes of
> Storage and an Display driver into 65x35mm (no bigger than the LCD). >
> > > 2.   "I'm not trying to put anyone down, but software people
> normally > needto learn a lot before attempting to do a hardware
> design." > > Don't be a snob. I did all the circuit digrams for a DSP
> architecure in > 1980 with ttl chips while you were probably sucking
> on  ....
> 
> Hey Owen, if you don't want help, then don't ask.  You said "I'm a
> software engineer *learning* hardware".  Now you are saying that you
> don't need help.  Please make up your mind.  My comment was clearly
> trying to say I did NOT intend to offend.  So next time, if you are
> going to be sensitive, please don't put your self down first, or at
> least warn us that you don't really want the help.  
> 
> BTW, a single 0603 cap of 0.1 uF or similar is clearly not enough to
> **properly** decouple a chip like this, especially on a 2 sided board.
>  If you don't believe me, ask Philips.  One of the biggest mistakes
> engineers (hardware AND software) make is thinking that because
> something has worked in the past, that it must be right.  In my 25
> years as an engineer I have seen a lot of people eat their words when
> their "good enough" approach did not work in a new situation.  
> 
> And remember, ground bounce is NOT your friend.   :)
> 

I agree with Rick. Owen if you do not want help then do not ask.
If you give a specific skill level, and people answer based on your
stated skill level, then do not come back with such an uncalled for
attitude. 
I hope the board you are doing is not meant for any sort of commercial
use. Taking such chances with your own hobby board is one thing. Selling
stuff which you hope is good enough is not so good.

Regards
   Anton Erasmus

-- 
A J Erasmus

>> 1. \ufffd "If you're struggling for space, why not use 0603 or smaller caps?" 
\ufffd
I am using 0603 - how else does own get a data logger with 4MBytes of Storage 
and an Display driver into 65x35mm (no bigger than the LCD). <<

Blimey, you 'orrible, little ingrate! With that sort of attitude, when your 
board fails EMC and you come crawling back to people for help, we'll tell you 
we don't want any more replies to this topic on the list! 

The correct way to respond would be, "Thanks, Rob, but I'm already using 
0603s. Nice of you to spend some of your valuable time trying to help me, but 
I've already thought of that."

Sorry Rick

I should have posted "Don't be a snob" :-)  i.e - in a light hearted vein

Owen

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, Owen Mooney <ojm@s...> wrote:
> Sorry Rick
> 
> I should have posted "Don't be a snob" :-)  i.e - in a light hearted
vein

Like I said in my later post, I overreacted too.  I guess I was just
caught off guard.  Sorry.  

No worries!  :)