Lpc2000

Dear Olimex support!
On the CS8900 ethernet board, there significant inconsistencies between 
schematic and board:
1. On board label D11 - On schematic no such label
2. On schematic R11 installed - on board not
3. On schematic connector pins exist as C2.1 -> c2.16, on board 17 -> 32
4. On board only top side has parts labels, bottom parts is you secret


Do You take responsibility for these inconsistencies in case of 
potential board damage caused by them?

Regards
robert seczkowski

I found something disturbing as well, here's the email that I sent.  
Anyone have any thoughts about this?


Dear Olimex Support:

I've got a question about the connection of SD/MMC cards, based on 
the your schematics.  I'm looking at your dev kit for the 
LPC2148/SAM7S64, but I'm worried about the SD connection.

According to the SD spec:
-DAT0-3/CMD/WP should have pullups,
-DAT0-3/CMD/CLK should have caps

However nowhere any on your schematics do you have any caps, and you 
seem to be inconsistent with your use of pullups.  On some 
schematics you leave DAT1/DAT2 floating (which is a direct no-no 
AFAIK) and you don't pull up CMD, and inconsistently pull up DAT0.

The spec says directly that not pulling up DAT1/DAT2 (even though 
they are unused) can cause high current consumption:
  "The `RSV' pins are floating inputs. It is the responsibility of 
the host designer to connect external pullup resistors to those 
lines. Otherwise non-expected high current consumption may occur due 
to the floating inputs."

Additionally since there is an internal pull-up on CS, do you need 
an external one?

Is there something that I don't know here, or is this an error in 
the board design?

Thanks for any insight.



--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, rseku <rseku@p...> wrote:
>
> Dear Olimex support!
> On the CS8900 ethernet board, there significant inconsistencies 
between 
> schematic and board:
> 1. On board label D11 - On schematic no such label
> 2. On schematic R11 installed - on board not
> 3. On schematic connector pins exist as C2.1 -> c2.16, on board 
17 -> 32
> 4. On board only top side has parts labels, bottom parts is you 
secret

> 
> 
> Do You take responsibility for these inconsistencies in case of 
> potential board damage caused by them?
> 
> Regards
> robert seczkowski
>

I forgot to mention, that schematic contain supply voltage as misterious 
VCC, which can mean any value !!!
I received response from olimex support, that they don't know what is 
all about!

robert


rseku wrote:

> Dear Olimex support!
> On the CS8900 ethernet board, there significant inconsistencies between 
> schematic and board:
> 1. On board label D11 - On schematic no such label
> 2. On schematic R11 installed - on board not
> 3. On schematic connector pins exist as C2.1 -> c2.16, on board 17 -> 32
> 4. On board only top side has parts labels, bottom parts is you secret
> 
> 
> Do You take responsibility for these inconsistencies in case of 
> potential board damage caused by them?
> 
> Regards
> robert seczkowski
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>

I didn't want to bother all 2000+ members with something far away 
from LPC2000 stuff this is why yesterday I personally responded to 
your e-mail, but obviously you want to continue this way so I'll 
bite. 
I check all correspondence between you and Olimex's support and found:
to every your question for support is responded within couple of 
hours from our peoples.
Correct me if I'm wrong but there is not topic or qustion you asked 
left open or not explained.
Can you quote when you have asked for help Olimex and from our 
support is responded "that they don't know what is all about"?
I would appreciate to see this e-mail forward it to "usunov at olimex 
dot com".

Thanks
Tsvetan

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, rseku <rseku@p...> wrote:
>
> I forgot to mention, that schematic contain supply voltage as 
misterious 
> VCC, which can mean any value !!!
> I received response from olimex support, that they don't know what 
is 
> all about!
> 
> robert
> 
> 
> rseku wrote:
> 
> > Dear Olimex support!
> > On the CS8900 ethernet board, there significant inconsistencies 
between 
> > schematic and board:
> > 1. On board label D11 - On schematic no such label
> > 2. On schematic R11 installed - on board not
> > 3. On schematic connector pins exist as C2.1 -> c2.16, on board 
17 -> 32
> > 4. On board only top side has parts labels, bottom parts is you 
secret

> > 
> > 
> > Do You take responsibility for these inconsistencies in case of 
> > potential board damage caused by them?
> > 
> > Regards
> > robert seczkowski
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

Is this the war from robert seczkowski against Olimex?

What I know about Olimex is, that the sell great boards
at a verry fair price.

Cheers
Michael

>From: rseku <rseku@...>
>Reply-To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com
>To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, support@...
>Subject: Re: [lpc2000] board warranty
>Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 12:59:39 +0100
>
>I forgot to mention, that schematic contain supply voltage as misterious
>VCC, which can mean any value !!!
>I received response from olimex support, that they don't know what is
>all about!
>
>robert
>
>
>rseku wrote:
>
> > Dear Olimex support!
> > On the CS8900 ethernet board, there significant inconsistencies between
> > schematic and board:
> > 1. On board label D11 - On schematic no such label
> > 2. On schematic R11 installed - on board not
> > 3. On schematic connector pins exist as C2.1 -> c2.16, on board 17 -> 32
> > 4. On board only top side has parts labels, bottom parts is you secret
> >
> >
> > Do You take responsibility for these inconsistencies in case of
> > potential board damage caused by them?
> >
> > Regards
> > robert seczkowski
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

This forum is for genuine questions and problems, plenty of people are 
here to listen and help as you yourself know quite well. I was a little 
entertained by your earlier complaints about Olimex but you may as well 
paint the whole industry with the same picky brush. Have you been sold 
defective goods? Have you been given a rock-solid guarantee that all 
documentation is 100% accurate? What don't you understand about VCC??? 
Are you a lawyer or something? What if Olimex said 3.3V instead of VCC 
and you found out it was sitting at 3.28V? End of the world?

Some of your complaints quoted below sound like a personal vendetta 
against Olimex.

rseku wrote:
> The currently released board LPC-P2138 has LED address 0x3000, and 
> BUTTON a address 0x18000. The schematic shows LED pins on 12,13 what 
> gives 0x1800 mask, and buttons on 15,16 (really is 16,17)
> On the CS8900 ethernet board, there significant inconsistencies between 
> schematic and board:
> 1. On board label D11 - On schematic no such label
> 2. On schematic R11 installed - on board not
> 3. On schematic connector pins exist as C2.1 -> c2.16, on board 17 -> 32
> 4. On board only top side has parts labels, bottom parts is you secret
>
>
> Do You take responsibility for these inconsistencies in case of 
> potential board damage caused by them?
>   

> I forgot to mention, that schematic contain supply voltage as misterious 
> VCC, which can mean any value !!!
> I received response from olimex support, that they don't know what is 
> all about!

What is this? Are you trying to tell us that you are genuine Robert?

Frankly, we don't know what your problem is but this is not the place 
for this kind of mudslinging.

nowaywhatsoeverassociatedwitholimex
*Peter*

Hello,
 
I think the documentaion of a development board should be really
accurate.
And the design should be conform to the design specifiction of the chip
manufators.
This is not a toaster or something like this. For me it is a reference
which should be
well designed. I use it to create my own projects ! ...
I don't expect a 100% error free documentation at the beginning. But I
expect a corrected version online
as soon as possible. This should not be a problem. Or ?
 
Have a nice day :-)
 
Guido
 
 
 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Soentgerath, Guido"
<Guido.Soentgerath@s...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>  
> I think the documentaion of a development board should be really
> accurate.
> And the design should be conform to the design specifiction of the chip
> manufators.
> This is not a toaster or something like this. For me it is a reference
> which should be
> well designed. I use it to create my own projects ! ...
> I don't expect a 100% error free documentation at the beginning. But I
> expect a corrected version online
> as soon as possible. This should not be a problem. Or ?
>  
> Have a nice day :-)
>  
> Guido
>  

That is a really nice dream.
At the prices most of us are willing to pay, it will probably always
remain a dream too.  One of the ways that corrected documentation can
be developed at low cost is by user feedback to the manufacturer. It
is usually always easier for someone other than the original designer
to find the faults in any project. However, just complaining to this
audience will not do accomplish anything useful.

My $0.02 (0.0166 Euro)
--Dave

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, rseku <rseku@p...> wrote:
> I forgot to mention, that schematic contain supply voltage as
> misterious VCC, which can mean any value !!!
> I received response from olimex support, that they don't know what 
> is all about!
> 
> robert
> 
> 
> rseku wrote:
> 
>> Dear Olimex support!
>> On the CS8900 ethernet board, there significant inconsistencies
>> between schematic and board:
>> 1. On board label D11 - On schematic no such label
>> 2. On schematic R11 installed - on board not
>> 3. On schematic connector pins exist as C2.1 -> c2.16, on board
>> 17 -> 32
>> 4. On board only top side has parts labels, bottom parts is you 
>> secret
>> 
>> Do You take responsibility for these inconsistencies in case of 
>> potential board damage caused by them?
>> 
>> Regards
>> robert seczkowski

Shouldn't you send this to the Olimex support instead of the lpc2000 
group?

Karl Olsen

Yes Guido, without getting too deep into this thread, we all would like 
things corrected. Which reminds me, when will Windows ever be fully 
corrected? dream on.....

When I design pcbs I rarely include a bottom overlay. Also, pcbs go 
through revisions and may also allow for certain parts to be fitted or 
not. Since it is hardware it just can't be changed by the press of a 
button, so you have to make allowances beforehand.

Anyway, you get what you pay for which by the way is probably more than 
you paid for. Customers with very exacting requirements are usually 
charged very exacting amounts and I don't think that really applies to 
anyone purchasing a low-cost evaluation board. It is after all an 
"evaluation" board and not spec'd for space shuttle operations. If you 
need perfection you will never get it but you should be prepared to pay 
for it.

*Peter*


Soentgerath, Guido wrote:

> Hello,
>  
> I think the documentaion of a development board should be really
> accurate.
> And the design should be conform to the design specifiction of the chip
> manufators.
> This is not a toaster or something like this. For me it is a reference
> which should be
> well designed. I use it to create my own projects ! ...
> I don't expect a 100% error free documentation at the beginning. But I
> expect a corrected version online
> as soon as possible. This should not be a problem. Or ?
>  
> Have a nice day :-)
>  
> Guido

Thanks Guido!
I fully agree.

robert
Soentgerath, Guido wrote:

> Hello,
>  
> I think the documentaion of a development board should be really
> accurate.
> And the design should be conform to the design specifiction of the chip
> manufators.
> This is not a toaster or something like this. For me it is a reference
> which should be
> well designed. I use it to create my own projects ! ...
> I don't expect a 100% error free documentation at the beginning. But I
> expect a corrected version online
> as soon as possible. This should not be a problem. Or ?
>  
> Have a nice day :-)
>  
> Guido
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>

I have a couple of Olimex boards, and they are a very good company, and have
a good philosophy of publishing lots of documentation on the web.

I recently had to design a new module, and used the Olimex schematics a s a
good baisi.

My new boards worked first time, no problems.

If you don't understand that Vcc can mean 5volts, or 3.3, or whatever is the
chip supply voltage, then you are not a very experienced engineer.

Rseku should stop petty moaning, and get on with his work.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpc2000@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Soentgerath, Guido
Sent: 03 November 2005 13:31
To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [lpc2000] board warranty

Hello,

I think the documentaion of a development board should be really
accurate.
And the design should be conform to the design specifiction of the chip
manufators.
This is not a toaster or something like this. For me it is a reference
which should be
well designed. I use it to create my own projects ! ...
I don't expect a 100% error free documentation at the beginning. But I
expect a corrected version online
as soon as possible. This should not be a problem. Or ?

Have a nice day :-)

Guido







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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sVC-J9hJ5qyXg0WPR0l6g>
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icrocontrollers&w3=Pic+microcontrollers&w4=8051+microprocessor&c=4&s=93&.sig
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2=Microcontrollers&w3=Pic+microcontrollers&w4=8051+microprocessor&c=4&s=93&.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"You get what  you pay for" is a terrible response.  

 

Reputable companies put out a quality product and stand behind them.
When I look for an evaluation board, I am looking for "best practices"
in that design.  

 

Sure, it is acceptable to say "We made a mistake" - everyone does.  Real
world.  But "you get what you pay for" seems like "screw you" to me.

 

  _____  

From: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpc2000@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Peter Jakacki
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 6:07 AM
To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [lpc2000] board warranty

 

Yes Guido, without getting too deep into this thread, we all would like 
things corrected. Which reminds me, when will Windows ever be fully 
corrected? dream on.....

When I design pcbs I rarely include a bottom overlay. Also, pcbs go 
through revisions and may also allow for certain parts to be fitted or 
not. Since it is hardware it just can't be changed by the press of a 
button, so you have to make allowances beforehand.

Anyway, you get what you pay for which by the way is probably more than 
you paid for. Customers with very exacting requirements are usually 
charged very exacting amounts and I don't think that really applies to 
anyone purchasing a low-cost evaluation board. It is after all an 
"evaluation" board and not spec'd for space shuttle operations. If you 
need perfection you will never get it but you should be prepared to pay 
for it.

*Peter*


Soentgerath, Guido wrote:
> Hello,
>  
> I think the documentaion of a development board should be really
> accurate.
> And the design should be conform to the design specifiction of the
chip
> manufators.
> This is not a toaster or something like this. For me it is a reference
> which should be
> well designed. I use it to create my own projects ! ...
> I don't expect a 100% error free documentation at the beginning. But I
> expect a corrected version online
> as soon as possible. This should not be a problem. Or ?
>  
> Have a nice day :-)
>  
> Guido



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=Microcontrollers&w3=Pic+microcontrollers&w4=8051+microprocessor&c=4&s=9
3&.sig=tsVC-J9hJ5qyXg0WPR0l6g>  

Microcontrollers
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Microcontrollers&w1=Microprocessor&
w2=Microcontrollers&w3=Pic+microcontrollers&w4=8051+microprocessor&c=4&s
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>  My $0.02 (0.0166 Euro)

A few more of these mail ans we'll all be milionairs :-)

>  > I think the documentaion of a development board should be really
>  > accurate.
...
>  That is a really nice dream.
>  At the prices most of us are willing to pay, it will probably always
>  remain a dream too.

I like to dream. Bought a few boards from Embedded Artists and I
definitely got more that what I thought I paid for. To be honest ... their
10/100 Mbit ethernet board could have done with a bit more I/O, for one I
missed out the I2C interface on the on the connector - but then, I did
have access to the schematics before I decided to buy the board so it is
my own fault for not checking this.

When I saw their lpc2148 board announced, first thing I did was ask for
schematics. Almost everything I wanted was there: Alas, no backup battery
but enough 0 ohm resistors to change the default power supply
configuration.

I asked for a feature added and a day later it was there.
Should I now start complaining on the lpc group that they stole my design ;-)

I just like to think my dream came true!

(I keep on dreaming about USB sample code for a keyboard HID)

Rob

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Jansen" <rob@m...> wrote:
>
> >  My $0.02 (0.0166 Euro)
> 
> A few more of these mail ans we'll all be milionairs :-)
> 
> >  > I think the documentaion of a development board should be really
> >  > accurate.
> ...
> >  That is a really nice dream.
> >  At the prices most of us are willing to pay, it will probably always
> >  remain a dream too.
> 
> I like to dream. Bought a few boards from Embedded Artists and I
> definitely got more that what I thought I paid for. To be honest ...
their
> 10/100 Mbit ethernet board could have done with a bit more I/O, for
one I
> missed out the I2C interface on the on the connector - but then, I did
> have access to the schematics before I decided to buy the board so it is
> my own fault for not checking this.
> 
> When I saw their lpc2148 board announced, first thing I did was ask for
> schematics. Almost everything I wanted was there: Alas, no backup
battery
> but enough 0 ohm resistors to change the default power supply
> configuration.
> 
> I asked for a feature added and a day later it was there.
> Should I now start complaining on the lpc group that they stole my
design ;-)
> 
> I just like to think my dream came true!
> 
> (I keep on dreaming about USB sample code for a keyboard HID)
> 
> Rob
>


Hey!! It is nice to read about good experiences once in awhile. :-)

I have not found anything to complain about with boards from Embest
either.  I have not been able to find anything that does everything
that I want, but I have been able to modify them for the development
scenarios that I have wanted to test.

It seems like some folks in this group consider these third party
boards to be equivalent to manufacturer's reference designs, which
they certainly are not!  Even reference design documentation is
sometimes less than perfect. 

--Dave

http://www.lvr.com/hidpage.htm

Lots of HID info on this site, I know they have some HID Mice examples
,Im sure you could probably pull a keyboard example out of someone there.

--Del

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Jansen" <rob@m...> wrote:
>
> >  My $0.02 (0.0166 Euro)
> 
> A few more of these mail ans we'll all be milionairs :-)
> 
> >  > I think the documentaion of a development board should be really
> >  > accurate.
> ...
> >  That is a really nice dream.
> >  At the prices most of us are willing to pay, it will probably always
> >  remain a dream too.
> 
> I like to dream. Bought a few boards from Embedded Artists and I
> definitely got more that what I thought I paid for. To be honest ...
their
> 10/100 Mbit ethernet board could have done with a bit more I/O, for
one I
> missed out the I2C interface on the on the connector - but then, I did
> have access to the schematics before I decided to buy the board so it is
> my own fault for not checking this.
> 
> When I saw their lpc2148 board announced, first thing I did was ask for
> schematics. Almost everything I wanted was there: Alas, no backup
battery
> but enough 0 ohm resistors to change the default power supply
> configuration.
> 
> I asked for a feature added and a day later it was there.
> Should I now start complaining on the lpc group that they stole my
design ;-)

> 
> I just like to think my dream came true!
> 
> (I keep on dreaming about USB sample code for a keyboard HID)
> 
> Rob
>

So you would expect the same from a $200 board as you would from a $500 
board? How does "you get what you pay for" mean "screw you"? Take the 
original comment in it's context in regards to exacting requirements 
comes at a price. It costs to have people there answering and chasing 
after minor complaints then rectifying them. Some hotels pay a lot of 
attention to detail, responding to your whims, while others you have to 
throw the phone at them to get their attention :0 (I'm sure that wasn't 
a "low-cost" hotel but I couldn't help mentioning it).

Many companies would feel more than justified in raising their prices to 
offer a Ritz service but then they wouldn't be low-cost anymore and many 
customers may be complaining that they are too expensive. We have a 
saying here in Oz, "champagne tastes, beer budget".

It may be very good quality beer, but this is what I mean when I say 
"you get what you pay for".

*Peter*

Dan Beadle wrote:

> "You get what  you pay for" is a terrible response.  
>
>  
>
> Reputable companies put out a quality product and stand behind them.
> When I look for an evaluation board, I am looking for "best practices"
> in that design.  
>
>  
>
> Sure, it is acceptable to say "We made a mistake" - everyone does.  Real
> world.  But "you get what you pay for" seems like "screw you" to me.

Does OLIMEX put a clause ( what You may've seen somewhere), that You 
have to present school graduate certificate before purchase.

It's not the right communication scheme, when manufacturer puts into 
schematic something (i.e. VCC), what could be understoor by You as 
"whatever".

  My question has not changed: who will take the responsibility, if your 
"whatever" term is different from manufactures one??????
Everybody is taking it personally (i.e. my person is a favorite task).

Do You think, that board schematic, which is distributed on the web is 
not part of delivery????

I hope Mike, that the books You were learning electronics from, had only 
good schematics.

The discussion here has no point in further going on.
We should consider the discussion here closed.
All opinions (including OLIMEX) have already given an answer: OLIMEX 
doesn't take responsibility for schematics on the web page.

robert


Mike Ward wrote:

> I have a couple of Olimex boards, and they are a very good company, and have
> a good philosophy of publishing lots of documentation on the web.
> 
> I recently had to design a new module, and used the Olimex schematics a s a
> good baisi.
> 
> My new boards worked first time, no problems.
> 
> If you don't understand that Vcc can mean 5volts, or 3.3, or whatever is the
> chip supply voltage, then you are not a very experienced engineer.
> 
> Rseku should stop petty moaning, and get on with his work.
> 
> Mike
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpc2000@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> Soentgerath, Guido
> Sent: 03 November 2005 13:31
> To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [lpc2000] board warranty
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I think the documentaion of a development board should be really
> accurate.
> And the design should be conform to the design specifiction of the chip
> manufators.
> This is not a toaster or something like this. For me it is a reference
> which should be
> well designed. I use it to create my own projects ! ...
> I don't expect a 100% error free documentation at the beginning. But I
> expect a corrected version online
> as soon as possible. This should not be a problem. Or ?
> 
> Have a nice day :-)
> 
> Guido
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Microprocessor
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Microprocessor&w1=Microprocessor&w2=Mic
> rocontrollers&w3=Pic+microcontrollers&w4=8051+microprocessor&c=4&s=93&.sig=t
> sVC-J9hJ5qyXg0WPR0l6g>
> Microcontrollers
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Microcontrollers&w1=Microprocessor&w2=M
> icrocontrollers&w3=Pic+microcontrollers&w4=8051+microprocessor&c=4&s=93&.sig
> =DvJVNqC_pqRTm8Xq01nxwg>
> Pic microcontrollers
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pic+microcontrollers&w1=Microprocessor&
> w2=Microcontrollers&w3=Pic+microcontrollers&w4=8051+microprocessor&c=4&s=93&
> .sig=TpkoX4KofDJ7c6LyBvUqVQ>
> 8051 microprocessor
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=8051+microprocessor&w1=Microprocessor&w
> 2=Microcontrollers&w3=Pic+microcontrollers&w4=8051+microprocessor&c=4&s=93&.
> sig=1Ipf1Fjfbd_HVIlekkDP-A>
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>

Robert,

At the risk of this thread getting out of hand ..

I am 56, have both B.Sc. and M.Sc. and have been designing for over 30
years.

Maybe that gives me an experience and broad judgement to understand the
realities of life.

The books I used at university were good books, and my education gave me the
process to understand, and interpret what I see.

That's why I have no problem in using my judgement and experience to correct
minor ambiguities and inconsistencies in other peoples work.

I still think that bitching on and on about some minor schematic error is
well over the top on this forum.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpc2000@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
rseku
Sent: 07 November 2005 08:12
To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [lpc2000] board warranty

Does OLIMEX put a clause ( what You may've seen somewhere), that You
have to present school graduate certificate before purchase.

It's not the right communication scheme, when manufacturer puts into
schematic something (i.e. VCC), what could be understoor by You as
"whatever".

  My question has not changed: who will take the responsibility, if your
"whatever" term is different from manufactures one??????
Everybody is taking it personally (i.e. my person is a favorite task).

Do You think, that board schematic, which is distributed on the web is
not part of delivery????

I hope Mike, that the books You were learning electronics from, had only
good schematics.

The discussion here has no point in further going on.
We should consider the discussion here closed.
All opinions (including OLIMEX) have already given an answer: OLIMEX
doesn't take responsibility for schematics on the web page.

robert


Mike Ward wrote:
> I have a couple of Olimex boards, and they are a very good company, and
have
> a good philosophy of publishing lots of documentation on the web.
>
> I recently had to design a new module, and used the Olimex schematics a s
a
> good baisi.
>
> My new boards worked first time, no problems.
>
> If you don't understand that Vcc can mean 5volts, or 3.3, or whatever is
the
> chip supply voltage, then you are not a very experienced engineer.
>
> Rseku should stop petty moaning, and get on with his work.
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpc2000@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> Soentgerath, Guido
> Sent: 03 November 2005 13:31
> To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [lpc2000] board warranty
>
> Hello,
>
> I think the documentaion of a development board should be really
> accurate.
> And the design should be conform to the design specifiction of the chip
> manufators.
> This is not a toaster or something like this. For me it is a reference
> which should be
> well designed. I use it to create my own projects ! ...
> I don't expect a 100% error free documentation at the beginning. But I
> expect a corrected version online
> as soon as possible. This should not be a problem. Or ?
>
> Have a nice day :-)
>
> Guido
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Microprocessor
> <
http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Microprocessor&w1=Microprocessor&w2=Mic
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Microprocessor&w1=Microprocessor&w2=Mic
>
>
rocontrollers&w3=Pic+microcontrollers&w4=8051+microprocessor&c=4&s=93&.sig=t
> sVC-J9hJ5qyXg0WPR0l6g>
> Microcontrollers
> <
http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Microcontrollers&w1=Microprocessor&w2=M
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Microcontrollers&w1=Microprocessor&w2=M
>
>
icrocontrollers&w3=Pic+microcontrollers&w4=8051+microprocessor&c=4&s=93&.sig
> =DvJVNqC_pqRTm8Xq01nxwg>
> Pic microcontrollers
> <
http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pic+microcontrollers&w1=Microprocessor&
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pic+microcontrollers&w1=Microprocessor&
>
>
w2=Microcontrollers&w3=Pic+microcontrollers&w4=8051+microprocessor&c=4&s=93&
> .sig=TpkoX4KofDJ7c6LyBvUqVQ>
> 8051 microprocessor
> <
http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=8051+microprocessor&w1=Microprocessor&w
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=8051+microprocessor&w1=Microprocessor&w
>
>
2=Microcontrollers&w3=Pic+microcontrollers&w4=8051+microprocessor&c=4&s=93&.
> sig=1Ipf1Fjfbd_HVIlekkDP-A>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> *      Visit your group " lpc2000 < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpc2000>
" on
> the web.
>
> *      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>         lpc2000-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:lpc2000-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
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> < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>   _____
>
>
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>
> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
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>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
>
>
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>




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YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

*	 Visit your group " lpc2000 <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpc2000> " on
the web.

*	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
	  lpc2000-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mike Ward wrote:

>Robert,
>
>At the risk of this thread getting out of hand ..
>
>I am 56, have both B.Sc. and M.Sc. and have been designing for over 30
>years.
>
>Maybe that gives me an experience and broad judgement to understand the
>realities of life.
>
>The books I used at university were good books, and my education gave me the
>process to understand, and interpret what I see.
>
>That's why I have no problem in using my judgement and experience to correct
>minor ambiguities and inconsistencies in other peoples work.
>
>I still think that bitching on and on about some minor schematic error is
>well over the top on this forum.
>
>  
>
Agreed, after all we've shipped enough mistakes of our own over the 
years.  ;-)

TomW



>Mike
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpc2000@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
>rseku
>Sent: 07 November 2005 08:12
>To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [lpc2000] board warranty
>
>Does OLIMEX put a clause ( what You may've seen somewhere), that You
>have to present school graduate certificate before purchase.
>
>It's not the right communication scheme, when manufacturer puts into
>schematic something (i.e. VCC), what could be understoor by You as
>"whatever".
>
>  My question has not changed: who will take the responsibility, if your
>"whatever" term is different from manufactures one??????
>Everybody is taking it personally (i.e. my person is a favorite task).
>
>Do You think, that board schematic, which is distributed on the web is
>not part of delivery????
>
>I hope Mike, that the books You were learning electronics from, had only
>good schematics.
>
>The discussion here has no point in further going on.
>We should consider the discussion here closed.
>All opinions (including OLIMEX) have already given an answer: OLIMEX
>doesn't take responsibility for schematics on the web page.
>
>robert
>
>
>Mike Ward wrote:
>  
>
>>I have a couple of Olimex boards, and they are a very good company, and
>>    
>>
>have
>  
>
>>a good philosophy of publishing lots of documentation on the web.
>>
>>I recently had to design a new module, and used the Olimex schematics a s
>>    
>>
>a
>  
>
>>good baisi.
>>
>>My new boards worked first time, no problems.
>>
>>If you don't understand that Vcc can mean 5volts, or 3.3, or whatever is
>>    
>>
>the
>  
>
>>chip supply voltage, then you are not a very experienced engineer.
>>
>>Rseku should stop petty moaning, and get on with his work.
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpc2000@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
>>Soentgerath, Guido
>>Sent: 03 November 2005 13:31
>>To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: RE: [lpc2000] board warranty
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I think the documentaion of a development board should be really
>>accurate.
>>And the design should be conform to the design specifiction of the chip
>>manufators.
>>This is not a toaster or something like this. For me it is a reference
>>which should be
>>well designed. I use it to create my own projects ! ...
>>I don't expect a 100% error free documentation at the beginning. But I
>>expect a corrected version online
>>as soon as possible. This should not be a problem. Or ?
>>
>>Have a nice day :-)
>>
>>Guido
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>SPONSORED LINKS
>>Microprocessor
>><
>>    
>>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Microprocessor&w1=Microprocessor&w2=Mic
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Microprocessor&w1=Microprocessor&w2=Mic
>  
>
>>    
>>
>rocontrollers&w3=Pic+microcontrollers&w4=8051+microprocessor&c=4&s=93&.sig=t
>  
>
>>sVC-J9hJ5qyXg0WPR0l6g>
>>Microcontrollers
>><
>>    
>>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Microcontrollers&w1=Microprocessor&w2=M
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Microcontrollers&w1=Microprocessor&w2=M
>  
>
>>    
>>
>icrocontrollers&w3=Pic+microcontrollers&w4=8051+microprocessor&c=4&s=93&.sig
>  
>
>>=DvJVNqC_pqRTm8Xq01nxwg>
>>Pic microcontrollers
>><
>>    
>>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pic+microcontrollers&w1=Microprocessor&
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pic+microcontrollers&w1=Microprocessor&
>  
>
>>    
>>
>w2=Microcontrollers&w3=Pic+microcontrollers&w4=8051+microprocessor&c=4&s=93&
>  
>
>>.sig=TpkoX4KofDJ7c6LyBvUqVQ>
>>8051 microprocessor
>><
>>    
>>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=8051+microprocessor&w1=Microprocessor&w
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=8051+microprocessor&w1=Microprocessor&w
>  
>
>>    
>>
>2=Microcontrollers&w3=Pic+microcontrollers&w4=8051+microprocessor&c=4&s=93&.
>  
>
>>sig=1Ipf1Fjfbd_HVIlekkDP-A>
>>
>>
>>
>>  _____
>>
>>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>
>>*      Visit your group " lpc2000 < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpc2000>
>>    
>>
>" on
>  
>
>>the web.
>>
>>*      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>        lpc2000-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>><mailto:lpc2000-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>>
>>*      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
>>< http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>>
>>  _____
>>
>>
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>>
>>This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
>>http://www.netintelligence.com/email
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
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>
>
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>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>*	 Visit your group " lpc2000 <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpc2000> " on
>the web.
>
>*	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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><mailto:lpc2000-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
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-- 
Tom Walsh - WN3L - Embedded Systems Consultant
http://openhardware.net, http://cyberiansoftware.com
"Windows? No thanks, I have work to do..."
----------------------------------------------------