MOTM

Not sure what the exact terminology is but you'll often find that 
portamento can be set up so:

You only hear the lag/portamento/glide effect when you depress a 
second key while the initial key is also held down (in other words 
you send a second trigger signal while the original gate is open)

You hear the effect no matter if the initial key is held down when 
the second key is held down or not.  

For example, in the first case, I could play C4, release the key, and 
5 seconds later play C5 and I would not hear the effect.

In the second case, same scenario, I would hear the portamento effect.

Does the 820 provide both modes?

Thanks - hope that's clear.

John

Hi John -

The 820 is just the thing that provides the lag.  You can control the 
lag curve (continuously from linear to log) and UP & DOWN 
independently.  You also get standard UP/DOWN.  But inorder to get 
the first case you describe, you would have to patch creatively.  The 
second effect is pretty standard and can be done with the 820 easily.

I'm not sure I could patch for the first case...anybody else?

Mike

--- In motm@y..., jpotter2@t... wrote:

> Not sure what the exact terminology is but you'll often find that 
> portamento can be set up so:
> ...

At 6:05 PM +0000 06/15/01, jpotter2@... wrote:
>
>Not sure what the exact terminology is but you'll often find that
>portamento can be set up so:
>
>You only hear the lag/portamento/glide effect when you depress a
>second key while the initial key is also held down (in other words
>you send a second trigger signal while the original gate is open)
>
>You hear the effect no matter if the initial key is held down when
>the second key is held down or not.
>
>For example, in the first case, I could play C4, release the key, and
>5 seconds later play C5 and I would not hear the effect.

What sort of funeral march are you playing?? :)

>In the second case, same scenario, I would hear the portamento effect.
>
>Does the 820 provide both modes?

Of course not!!  The 820 is a synthesizer module.  Modules don't have
keyboards, or they wouldn't be modules :)

Now, it is possible to play keyed portamento with an 820, but it depends on
what you are using to control it.  I can set my Prophecy to send CC #65
only when playing legato, and then set an Aux output from my Pro-4 to send
CC #65, and plug that into the Bypass jack on the 820.  The Pro-4 grounds
the jack and turns on the Bypass,  when it sends +5 the ground backs off
and the portamento kicks in.

--- In motm@y..., mark@i... wrote:
> At 6:05 PM +0000 06/15/01, jpotter2@t... wrote:

>>For example, in the first case, I could play C4, release the key, 
and 5 seconds later play C5 and I would not hear the effect.

> What sort of funeral march are you playing?? :)

A purely hypothetical dirge :)

>Does the 820 provide both modes?

>> Of course not!!  The 820 is a synthesizer module.  Modules don't 
have keyboards, or they wouldn't be modules :)

I know, I know.  Maybe I should have been more specific but I was 
thinking of a case where you've got an external kb or sequencer 
through a MIDI/CV convertor into the lag module then into a VCO.

>> Now, it is possible to play keyed portamento with an 820, but it 
depends on what you are using to control it.  I can set my Prophecy 
to send CC #65 only when playing legato, and then set an Aux output 
from my Pro-4 to send CC #65, and plug that into the Bypass jack on 
the 820.  The Pro-4 grounds the jack and turns on the Bypass,  when 
it sends +5 the ground backs off and the portamento kicks in.

Interesting - thanks for the input (you too Mike).

I find the first case (portamento only when a "new" trigger is 
received w/ an "old" gate signal) to be more natural.

Just to (hopefully) clarify for anyone who hasn't followed my 
convoluted description here's a diagram to illustrate my different 
cases (Where "X" is a discrete trigger signal and "---" is the gate):

This is the first case:
X          X
----------------------

This is the second case:
X          X
--------   -----------


Thanks,

JP

On my Roland JV-1000 it's called 'Legato'... Other synths may have other
names for it, kind of like 'Glide' vs 'Portamento'... The 820 itself doesn't
do this however the 820 does have CV control of the 'Bypass', 'Up', 'Down'
or 'Up/Down'. I've gotten some really cool stuff out of the CV's with an
800-EG and 320-LFO... You may be able to acheive something similar with a
700 switching the 'Bypass' on/off when certain notes are played on a
keyboard... Damn, Now I wish I had a 700 to try this!!! Oh, the
possibilities!!!

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: jpotter2@... [mailto:jpotter2@...]
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 2:06 PM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motm] Question on the MOTM-820 Lag


Not sure what the exact terminology is but you'll often find that
portamento can be set up so:

You only hear the lag/portamento/glide effect when you depress a
second key while the initial key is also held down (in other words
you send a second trigger signal while the original gate is open)

You hear the effect no matter if the initial key is held down when
the second key is held down or not.

For example, in the first case, I could play C4, release the key, and
5 seconds later play C5 and I would not hear the effect.

In the second case, same scenario, I would hear the portamento effect.

Does the 820 provide both modes?

Thanks - hope that's clear.

John




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> On my Roland JV-1000 it's called 'Legato'... Other synths may have other
> names for it, kind of like 'Glide' vs 'Portamento'... The 820 itself
doesn't
> do this however the 820 does have CV control of the 'Bypass', 'Up', 'Down'
> or 'Up/Down'.

A trick that could work is to switch the LAG to Bypass for a very short time
with the "Trigger" pulse from your Keyboard or Midi Interface.

When you play Legato, no Trigger pulse is created (only Gate), so you have
Portamento. When you play staccato, the Trigger pulse will bypass the Lag
for a very short time (which could be enough, because the Lag is switched
to "very fast" in that time.

Please note that I have *not* tried this with a 820. (But I implemented that
function into an old synth of mine.) It may be necessary to prolong the
Trigger pulse a little (try a ASDR with S=0 and D=50ms), and/or to invert it
and use the normal CV inputs - experiment !

JH.

Actually, you can come pretty close to this using the gate signal as voltage
control to the 820 lag.  You just cannot use the bypass feature to switch
the 820 on and off for this type of effect because the 820 lags whether
bypassed or not.  The bypass switch simply determines whether you are
selecting the input directly to output or the lag circuit to output.  So,
when you switch on and off, you can switch into the middle of the last lag.

Try this.  Patch your CV through the LAG as you normally would.  Then patch
your gate signal directly to the CV input of the lag parameters you are
using.  For demonstration, we will use only the up/down.  However, you could
use the individual CVs with a few more cables.  Anyhow, patch your gate into
the up/down CV.  So, anytime the gate is high you have lag. You use the
up/down control as a CV attenuator.  So, if you play Legato from note to
note, you lag.  As soon as you let off of all keys, the lag time goes to
zero.  So the next note you play starts without lag.  The only abnormality
is that if you are using longer lag times, when you lift the last note, if
you have not yet lagged to that note, then the tone will go right to that
note anyhow.  Of course, with short release on your EG to VCA, you would
never hear this.

For a little more fun, run your gate and trigger into a reversing mixer like
the 830.  Run that DC output to your 820 and set the up/down control to max.
Use the attenuator controls on the mixer to set the amount of lag.  I found
that positive gate and reversed trigger, attenuated produced some
interesting effects.

But, the bottom line is to do this under voltage control, you need to use
the CV inputs and not try to switch quickly in and out of lag using the
bypass switch.  You can do this, but it is a different effect.

Thanks my take on it anyhow.
Stooge Larry
www.wiseguysynth.com

----- Original Message -----
From: <jpotter2@...>
To: <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 1:05 PM
Subject: [motm] Question on the MOTM-820 Lag


Not sure what the exact terminology is but you'll often find that
portamento can be set up so:

You only hear the lag/portamento/glide effect when you depress a
second key while the initial key is also held down (in other words
you send a second trigger signal while the original gate is open)

You hear the effect no matter if the initial key is held down when
the second key is held down or not.

For example, in the first case, I could play C4, release the key, and
5 seconds later play C5 and I would not hear the effect.

In the second case, same scenario, I would hear the portamento effect.

Does the 820 provide both modes?

Thanks - hope that's clear.

John




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

At 12:42 AM -0500 06/16/01, J. Larry Hendry wrote:
>
>Actually, you can come pretty close to this using the gate signal as
>>voltage control to the 820 lag.  You just cannot use the bypass feature
>to >switch the 820 on and off for this type of effect because the 820 lags
>>whether bypassed or not.  The bypass switch simply determines whether you
>>are selecting the input directly to output or the lag circuit to output.
>>So, when you switch on and off, you can switch into the middle
>of the last lag.

This is true, however it does work if the lag has already arrived at the
last note.  So this would only create a "glitch" if you play three notes
quicker than the lag time.

If I remember correctly, this is also the case with the SH-101 -- it looks
that way from the schematics (that it simply switches to the output of the
lag circuit), but I don't have my SH-101 assembled to test it.

This is not the case with the Mini Moog.  Even if you set a very long glide
time, play a new note, then switch on the glide, it has no effect.  Glide
only works if you turn it on before the beginning of the new note.  Of
course, the Mini Moog does not have keyed portamento. You can play a note
with the glide switched off, leave the studio, come back, switch the glide
on, hit another note, and it will still glide.

Does anyone have a schematic??

>Try this.  Patch your CV through the LAG as you normally would.  Then patch
>your gate signal directly to the CV input of the lag parameters you are
>using.  For demonstration, we will use only the up/down.  However, you
>>could use the individual CVs with a few more cables.  Anyhow, patch your
>>gate into the up/down CV.  So, anytime the gate is high you have lag. You
>>use the up/down control as a CV attenuator.  So, if you play Legato from
>>note to note, you lag.  As soon as you let off of all keys, the lag time
>>goes to zero.  So the next note you play starts without lag.

Very clever!!

"I'm trying to think but nothing's happening"  :)

>The only abnormality is that if you are using longer lag times, when you
>>lift the last note, if you have not yet lagged to that note, then the
>tone >will go right to that note anyhow.  Of course, with short release on
>your >EG to VCA, you would never hear this.

This is true.

At 10:59 AM +0100 06/16/01, Tony Allgood wrote:
>
>Which leads me to a question: Does anyone want the bypass mode of the
>820 to be switched with a voltage, and not a shorted switch, with the
>forthcoming OMS-820 companion module? I can put another socket on for
>voltage control of this function.

The bypass switch already works with a control voltage, it's just that the
Bypass LED can give a false reading with certain voltages, and the output
exhibits the above mentioned "glitch" which Larry just explained.  Of
course, the first problem is entirely Paul's fault for adding all these
extra LED's to the MOTM system :)

Yeah, I know, I'm supposed to play the 820 with a footswitch.  Who am I,
Rick Wakeman??  :)

So what the heck is an OMS-820??