MOTM

a) OK it's settled! Voices grouped *vertically*, with CV on the bottom. Moe, please mock it up.

b) Looking at the MIDI jack: the thick MOTM panel is causing an issue. The standard pcb mounted
MIDI connector assumes a 0.062 thick panel. When the connector is butted-up to such a panel and
the DIN cable plugged in, this allows the outer plastic molded  portion not to touch the front
panel (by about 0.025). The inner metal 'shell' goes all the way into the connector.

Now, with the 0.125 thick panels, you have to have a large hole cut that is bigger than the
outside dimension of the "fattest cable you ever hope to come across". I measured all my MIDI
cables, the largest one was about 0.665 outside diameter. This means a 0.700 min hole to allow
for 'slop'. Well, I think that is too big as it looks a little strange with this giant hole where
you can see the pc board slightly.

So, I'm proposing using a Switchcraft or Neutrik panel-mount DIN. The Switchcraft one has silver
(nickel-plated brass) flanges. It's part number 57GB5F. I haven't looked at the Neutrik, maybe
they have a black one. This does mean 2 'exposed' black screw heads along with the flange.

It is about the same labor. The reason is that the pcb mounted one needed a support bracket and
PEM threaded stud. The panel mounted one I have to solder wires (yuck). So far as cost/labor it's
even.

But, it 100% removes the "my DIN cable won't plug in!" issue, and I think it will be better
overall. Opinions?

Paul S.

The *last* thing you need is someone crying "My MIDI plug doesn't work-- MOTM sucks!".

Get thee to a panel-mounted DIN.  (I think they look cooler, anyway.)

--PBr

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Schreiber [mailto:synth1@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 12:28 PM
To: MOTM listserv
Subject: [motm] Now, another topic to vote on

But, it 100% removes the "my DIN cable won't plug in!" issue, and I think it will be better
overall. Opinions?

> But, it 100% removes the "my DIN cable won't plug in!" issue, and I 
think it will be better
> overall. Opinions?
> 
> Paul S.

I vote for the panel mount, I do not want any plug issues.  I do not 
mind the presence of the mounting hardware.

- Andy

My vote is for panel mount.  Stability is key, and I don't mind the 
exposed hardware.

Mike

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@a...> wrote:
> a) OK it's settled! Voices grouped *vertically*, with CV on the 
bottom. Moe, please mock it up.
> 
> b) Looking at the MIDI jack: the thick MOTM panel is causing an 
issue. The standard pcb mounted
> MIDI connector assumes a 0.062 thick panel. When the connector is 
butted-up to such a panel and
> the DIN cable plugged in, this allows the outer plastic molded  
portion not to touch the front
> panel (by about 0.025). The inner metal 'shell' goes all the way 
into the connector.
> 
> Now, with the 0.125 thick panels, you have to have a large hole cut 
that is bigger than the
> outside dimension of the "fattest cable you ever hope to come 
across". I measured all my MIDI
> cables, the largest one was about 0.665 outside diameter. This 
means a 0.700 min hole to allow
> for 'slop'. Well, I think that is too big as it looks a little 
strange with this giant hole where
> you can see the pc board slightly.
> 
> So, I'm proposing using a Switchcraft or Neutrik panel-mount DIN. 
The Switchcraft one has silver
> (nickel-plated brass) flanges. It's part number 57GB5F. I haven't 
looked at the Neutrik, maybe
> they have a black one. This does mean 2 'exposed' black screw heads 
along with the flange.
> 
> It is about the same labor. The reason is that the pcb mounted one 
needed a support bracket and
> PEM threaded stud. The panel mounted one I have to solder wires 
(yuck). So far as cost/labor it's
> even.
> 
> But, it 100% removes the "my DIN cable won't plug in!" issue, and I 
think it will be better

> overall. Opinions?
> 
> Paul S.

At 2:28 PM -0600 12/10/02, Paul Schreiber wrote:
>
>But, it 100% removes the "my DIN cable won't plug in!" issue, and
>I think it will be better overall. Opinions?

My opinion (which I guess counts since I'm going to buy a 600 which seems
will have the same issue :) is put all the MIDI connectors in back, like
most other equipment.   Most people do not repatch MIDI cables on a regular
basis.  It also looks better, and causes less cable clutter.

Everyone scour the ends of the earth for an all-black DIN panel mount jack. The future of mankind
rests on your shoulders.

Paul S.

----- Original Message -----

From: "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh@...>
To: "MOTM List" <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [motm] Now, another topic to vote on


> I vote for panel mount too.  I will also tell you that James Richardson
> (speak up when you can James) sent me a panel mount MIDI jack for drilling
> for one of his Stooge panels.    It has an all black lip around the outside
> and secures from the back with a large nut.  This is a very cool looking
> MIDI jack compared to the ones we are all familiar with that have the
> football shaped mounting flanges and take 2 screws.  Jim, please tell us the
> vendor of this MIDI jack.  I really like the appearance.  I'll try to post a
> photo later.
> Larry
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Schreiber <synth1@...>
> To: MOTM listserv <motm@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 2:28 PM
> Subject: [motm] Now, another topic to vote on
>
>
> a) OK it's settled! Voices grouped *vertically*, with CV on the bottom. Moe,
> please mock it up.
>
> b) Looking at the MIDI jack: the thick MOTM panel is causing an issue. The
> standard pcb mounted
> MIDI connector assumes a 0.062 thick panel. When the connector is butted-up
> to such a panel and
> the DIN cable plugged in, this allows the outer plastic molded  portion not
> to touch the front
> panel (by about 0.025). The inner metal 'shell' goes all the way into the
> connector.
>
> Now, with the 0.125 thick panels, you have to have a large hole cut that is
> bigger than the
> outside dimension of the "fattest cable you ever hope to come across". I
> measured all my MIDI
> cables, the largest one was about 0.665 outside diameter. This means a 0.700
> min hole to allow
> for 'slop'. Well, I think that is too big as it looks a little strange with
> this giant hole where
> you can see the pc board slightly.
>
> So, I'm proposing using a Switchcraft or Neutrik panel-mount DIN. The
> Switchcraft one has silver
> (nickel-plated brass) flanges. It's part number 57GB5F. I haven't looked at
> the Neutrik, maybe
> they have a black one. This does mean 2 'exposed' black screw heads along
> with the flange.
>
> It is about the same labor. The reason is that the pcb mounted one needed a
> support bracket and
> PEM threaded stud. The panel mounted one I have to solder wires (yuck). So
> far as cost/labor it's
> even.
>
> But, it 100% removes the "my DIN cable won't plug in!" issue, and I think it
> will be better
> overall. Opinions?
>
> Paul S.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

I vote for panel mount too.  I will also tell you that James Richardson
(speak up when you can James) sent me a panel mount MIDI jack for drilling
for one of his Stooge panels.    It has an all black lip around the outside
and secures from the back with a large nut.  This is a very cool looking
MIDI jack compared to the ones we are all familiar with that have the
football shaped mounting flanges and take 2 screws.  Jim, please tell us the
vendor of this MIDI jack.  I really like the appearance.  I'll try to post a
photo later.
Larry

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Schreiber <synth1@...>
To: MOTM listserv <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 2:28 PM
Subject: [motm] Now, another topic to vote on


a) OK it's settled! Voices grouped *vertically*, with CV on the bottom. Moe,
please mock it up.

b) Looking at the MIDI jack: the thick MOTM panel is causing an issue. The
standard pcb mounted
MIDI connector assumes a 0.062 thick panel. When the connector is butted-up
to such a panel and
the DIN cable plugged in, this allows the outer plastic molded  portion not
to touch the front
panel (by about 0.025). The inner metal 'shell' goes all the way into the
connector.

Now, with the 0.125 thick panels, you have to have a large hole cut that is
bigger than the
outside dimension of the "fattest cable you ever hope to come across". I
measured all my MIDI
cables, the largest one was about 0.665 outside diameter. This means a 0.700
min hole to allow
for 'slop'. Well, I think that is too big as it looks a little strange with
this giant hole where
you can see the pc board slightly.

So, I'm proposing using a Switchcraft or Neutrik panel-mount DIN. The
Switchcraft one has silver
(nickel-plated brass) flanges. It's part number 57GB5F. I haven't looked at
the Neutrik, maybe
they have a black one. This does mean 2 'exposed' black screw heads along
with the flange.

It is about the same labor. The reason is that the pcb mounted one needed a
support bracket and
PEM threaded stud. The panel mounted one I have to solder wires (yuck). So
far as cost/labor it's
even.

But, it 100% removes the "my DIN cable won't plug in!" issue, and I think it
will be better
overall. Opinions?

Paul S.





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> So, I'm proposing using a Switchcraft or Neutrik panel-mount DIN. The
Switchcraft one has silver
> (nickel-plated brass) flanges.


Silver flanges of DIN jacks look great on a black front panel.

JH.

> I vote for the panel mount, I do not want any plug issues.  I do not
> mind the presence of the mounting hardware.

Ditto.

best,
- Scott
____________
http://www.red-noise.com
http://www.strawberryplanet.org

> My opinion (which I guess counts since I'm going to
> buy a 600 which seems
> will have the same issue :) is put all the MIDI
> connectors in back, like
> most other equipment.   Most people do not repatch
> MIDI cables on a regular
> basis.  It also looks better, and causes less cable
> clutter.

Well, this is true for many studios, but not all.  If
you are always installing new modules or moving
modules around, you will need to be connecting and
disconnecting external cables.

But more importantly, this ONLY applies to
studio-based systems.  People who play out HAVE TO
continuously plug and unplug equipment.  Having things
mounted on the front is a great benfit!  I am sure all
of the other performers on the list will concur.

Also, I am not sure how having less cables on the
front of a modular synthesizer looks better.  I guess
beauty is in the eye of the beholder (could the
botched Lasik surgery be affecting my eyesight?).  And
if it bothers you, just you the jack that Paul has
thoughtfully already provided on the back.

And finally, I like the panel mounted DIN jacks.  High
quality and black preferred.

Cheers!
Shemp ('600 on order!)

__________________________________________________
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If it must be on the front, then panel mount for sure, rather than PCB
mounted. I always thought the recessed DIN connectors looked pretty bad.
Also, I don't think that a little silver on one module showing would be
a big deal.

The panel jack stooge Larry mentioned with the mounting nut from behind
sounds cool. My only concern here would be if this mounting scheme could
cause problems coming loose. Screws in front would be easy to tighten.

Since this is a studio rig for me, I would prefer all the midi stuff on
the back only.

Scott
----------------------------------------------
Paul Schreiber wrote:

> 
> a) OK it's settled! Voices grouped *vertically*, with CV on the bottom. Moe, please mock it up.
> 
> b) Looking at the MIDI jack: the thick MOTM panel is causing an issue. The standard pcb mounted
> MIDI connector assumes a 0.062 thick panel. When the connector is butted-up to such a panel and
> the DIN cable plugged in, this allows the outer plastic molded  portion not to touch the front
> panel (by about 0.025). The inner metal 'shell' goes all the way into the connector.
> 
> Now, with the 0.125 thick panels, you have to have a large hole cut that is bigger than the
> outside dimension of the "fattest cable you ever hope to come across". I measured all my MIDI
> cables, the largest one was about 0.665 outside diameter. This means a 0.700 min hole to allow
> for 'slop'. Well, I think that is too big as it looks a little strange with this giant hole where
> you can see the pc board slightly.
> 
> So, I'm proposing using a Switchcraft or Neutrik panel-mount DIN. The Switchcraft one has silver
> (nickel-plated brass) flanges. It's part number 57GB5F. I haven't looked at the Neutrik, maybe
> they have a black one. This does mean 2 'exposed' black screw heads along with the flange.
> 
> It is about the same labor. The reason is that the pcb mounted one needed a support bracket and
> PEM threaded stud. The panel mounted one I have to solder wires (yuck). So far as cost/labor it's
> even.
> 
> But, it 100% removes the "my DIN cable won't plug in!" issue, and I think it will be better
> overall. Opinions?
> 
> Paul S.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

At 6:52 AM -0800 12/11/02, Tentochi wrote:
>
>Well, this is true for many studios, but not all.  If
>you are always installing new modules or moving
>modules around, you will need to be connecting and
>disconnecting external cables.

In that case, you would also need to get to the back to reconnect the power
cables.

>But more importantly, this ONLY applies to
>studio-based systems.  People who play out HAVE TO
>continuously plug and unplug equipment.  Having things
>mounted on the front is a great benfit!  I am sure all
>of the other performers on the list will concur.

I would certainly hope that any live setup would still allow the user to
get to the back.  This is why road cases usually have two lids :)  Even if
the MIDI interface is mounted in the same rack, you would still have to get
to the back to plug in the computer, keyboard, or whatever.  Most MIDI
equipment only has jacks in the back, and people use them live all the time.

At 4:03 PM +0000 12/11/02, paulhaneberg <phaneber@...> wrote:
>
>I really don't care how it mounts as long as it's on the front panel.
>BTW, although most studio equipment does have the jacks on the back,
>those jacks are almost always terminated in some type of patchbay
>with the jacks on the front.  The whole idea of a modular is based
>on the ability to patch together any configuration.  This requires
>front panel jacks.  What if all the connections had to be patched on
>the back?  Why should the MIDI jack be any different?

MIDI is quite different.  It is a multi-channel interface, and simple
"patching" is easily accomplished through channel assignments.  More
complex routing is usually not possible simply by replugging cables, and is
done via computer or a MIDI "patch bay" (which rarely uses patch cables).
Having the jacks in the front won't change that.  Like most people, I never
have to physically repatch MIDI cables unless I change equipment.

Paul asked for opinions, so there you go :)