MOTM

hello all,
well would you believe it - last night some mad woman punched me in the face
for LOOKING LIKE an ex member of Clock DVA. I suppose it's a good job all
round that i found this hillarious at the time (tho my bent nose and thick
lip wouldn't agree)
had to share that with you - it's a funny old world -
anyway, on to my - not too off topic i hope - question:
we currently have a young r&b artist in the studio where i work, and with
the aid of my minor motm system i was explaining to him the fundamentals of
how synthesisers work, and then i got stuck on the niggly specifics of noise
now then - is white noise (of the kind created by motm#100) true random
noise as opposed to psuedo-random noise which would be created by a
microprocessor based or more specifically - korg trinity - system
or am i totally wrong and should get punched out again..?
cheers
paulb

>well would you believe it - last night some mad woman punched me in the
face
>for LOOKING LIKE an ex member of Clock DVA. I suppose it's a good job all
>round that i found this hillarious at the time (tho my bent nose and thick
>lip wouldn't agree)

Beats getting sued for child support.

>how synthesisers work, and then i got stuck on the niggly specifics of
noise
>now then - is white noise (of the kind created by motm#100) true random
>noise as opposed to psuedo-random noise which would be created by a
>microprocessor based or more specifically - korg trinity - system
>or am i totally wrong and should get punched out again..?
>

a) Anybody buying a Trimity over a MOTM deserves to get punched out
b) Yes, you are correct! MOTM uses the amplified "thermal noise" of a Zener
diode
to generate the white noise. A "digital" noise generator uses a shift
register, with
specific stages fedback, to make a repeating pattern.

Sidebar: This fact is used as an (in) famous EE quiz question:

Q: How do you measure the value of a resistor without passing *any* current
through it?
A: Measure the RMS noise voltage (there is a simple equation that correlates
R to Vnoise and temperature).

Now, the repeat time is based on the length of the shift register and how
fast you clock it.
Can't speat for the Triton, but National Semiconductor used to make a little
8-pin DIP
part that did this. Was in MemoryMoog and others. Turns out, the repeat time
was short
(like 5 seconds) and you could "train yourself" to detect the cyclic nature.
So Moog had to issue
a little kluge board with 2 of these, each clocked at a different rate, then
gated together. This
"scrambled" the sequence and got rid of the issue.

But the thermal noise is always "purer" (pure noise??!?). In fact, there is
a small US company
that all it makes is a Noise Diode. This is a special Zener that is made so
the thermal noise
is not suppressed (because noise in a power sipply is generally  *bad*). I
was going to use one in MOTM
but they are about $18ea and too esoteric.

Analog purists strike again!

Paul S.

LOL!!!

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Paul Schreiber [mailto:synth1@...]

		a) Anybody buying a Trimity over a MOTM deserves to get
punched out

What if you clocked the digital noise registered with a Chaos oscillator?
<bg>

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Paul Schreiber [mailto:synth1@...]
		But the thermal noise is always "purer" (pure noise??!?). In
fact, there is
		a small US company
		that all it makes is a Noise Diode. This is a special Zener
that is made so
		the thermal noise
		is not suppressed (because noise in a power sipply is
generally  *bad*). I
		was going to use one in MOTM
		but they are about $18ea and too esoteric.

		Analog purists strike again!

		Paul S.

On Wed, 3 Nov 1999, Paul Schreiber wrote:

> Can't speat for the Triton, but National Semiconductor used to make a
> little 8-pin DIP part that did this. Was in MemoryMoog and others.
> Turns out, the repeat time was short (like 5 seconds) and you could
> "train yourself" to detect the cyclic nature. So Moog had to issue a
> little kluge board with 2 of these, each clocked at a different rate,
> then gated together. This "scrambled" the sequence and got rid of the
> issue.

  The MM5837.  A 17-stage feedback shift register.  Cute little device.  I
made a better one a few years ago, though: a 12C508 (8-pin) PIC program
for a 32-bit feedback shift register.  It included a little delay routine
to alter to noise spectrum.  Hm, with a 12C672, I could put a control
voltage in to set the noise clock rate..heh heh

  --Crow

/**/

hello all
next question then:
anyone any idea what coppola used on the soundtrack for "Apocalypse Now" as
i think i've just managed it (well the soaring stringy bit shortly before
the cavalry attack on the delta village anyway) on my battered Elka Rhapsody
and a #410 - a bit of a first for me
cheers
paulb
(currently working on theremin controlled noseguard)

And digital output pins for "random gates/triggers", too. Let's make brown
noise!

Paul S.
Too much FS1R fun today


-----Original Message-----
From: The Old Crow <oldcrow@...>
To: motm@onelist.com <motm@onelist.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 4:57 PM

Subject: Re: [motm] whoever said electronic music was safe..?


>
>On Wed, 3 Nov 1999, Paul Schreiber wrote:
>
>> Can't speat for the Triton, but National Semiconductor used to make a
>> little 8-pin DIP part that did this. Was in MemoryMoog and others.
>> Turns out, the repeat time was short (like 5 seconds) and you could
>> "train yourself" to detect the cyclic nature. So Moog had to issue a
>> little kluge board with 2 of these, each clocked at a different rate,
>> then gated together. This "scrambled" the sequence and got rid of the
>> issue.
>
>  The MM5837.  A 17-stage feedback shift register.  Cute little device.  I
>made a better one a few years ago, though: a 12C508 (8-pin) PIC program
>for a 32-bit feedback shift register.  It included a little delay routine
>to alter to noise spectrum.  Hm, with a 12C672, I could put a control
>voltage in to set the noise clock rate..heh heh
>
>  --Crow
>
>/**/
>
>>

In a message dated 99-11-03 18:01:57 EST, you write:

<< anyone any idea what coppola used on the soundtrack for "Apocalypse Now"  
>>



i think they had a team of 4 or 5 synthesists ( including don preston and pat 
gleeson) who worked on the soundtrack.
best,
dave

In a message dated 99-11-03 18:05:53 EST, you write:

<< And digital output pins for "random gates/triggers", too. Let's make brown
 noise! >>




paul,
now, thats something i could really use as a random/algorithmic/process 
automation junkie...... :^)
best,
dave