MOTM

How do I use velocity to control a VCA? What I would like to do is have 
the velocity CV from my MIDI/CV converter control the amount that the 
envelope affects the VCA. I need some sort of VCA between the envelope 
out CV and the VCA CV in. I tried using the first half of the 190, but 
that didn't work so well. Do I need a DC VCA? I glanced through the 
MOTM modules, but I didn't see any that mention this application.

You need the "lower" VCA of the '190, that one is DC coupled.

Paul S.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Jeff Laity" <synthetic@...>
To: "'MOTM List'" <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 4:17 PM
Subject: [motm] Using Velocity


> 
> How do I use velocity to control a VCA? What I would like to do is have 
> the velocity CV from my MIDI/CV converter control the amount that the 
> envelope affects the VCA. I need some sort of VCA between the envelope 
> out CV and the VCA CV in. I tried using the first half of the 190, but 
> that didn't work so well. Do I need a DC VCA? I glanced through the 
> MOTM modules, but I didn't see any that mention this application.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

You could use 2 VCAs in series - the first with an envelope generator  
attached to it's CV in and the second with a CV velocity signal going into its  CV 
in (thekenton pro2000 midi-cv convertor for example allows you to output  
velocity as CV from one of its 6 aux outs). Then just pass the audio through VCA  1 
audio in, to VCA out, then into VCA 2 audio in, to VCA out into your mixer or 
 whatever.
 
-Chaz

Is this also the method for varying the amount that an LFO controls VCO 
vibrato?

On Feb 21, 2005, at 3:33 PM, Paul Schreiber wrote:

> You need the "lower" VCA of the '190, that one is DC coupled.
>
>  Paul S.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Jeff Laity" <synthetic@...>
>  To: "'MOTM List'" <motm@yahoogroups.com>
>  Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 4:17 PM
>  Subject: [motm] Using Velocity
>
>
>  >
>  > How do I use velocity to control a VCA? What I would like to do is 
> have
>  > the velocity CV from my MIDI/CV converter control the amount that 
> the
>  > envelope affects the VCA. I need some sort of VCA between the 
> envelope
>  > out CV and the VCA CV in. I tried using the first half of the 190, 
> but
>  > that didn't work so well. Do I need a DC VCA? I glanced through the
>  > MOTM modules, but I didn't see any that mention this application.
>  >

You also could use a stooged Oakley Multimix summing up all the CVs
and feed the resulting CV into the VCA. 
That made it even more versatile since you could invert the CVs.

  Michael. (who thinks that MOTM VCAs are dead quiet ;-)

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "john mahoney" <jmahoney@g...> wrote:
> > You could use 2 VCAs in series - the first with an 
> > envelope generator attached to it's CV in and the 
> > second with a CV velocity signal going into its CV in ...
> 
> My understanding is that you'll get less noise by using the
EG-driven VCA last. When the envelope is "off" its VCA will cut off
*all* the sound, including that of the velocity VCA. But maybe the
MOTM VCA is quiet enough that it doesn't matter.
> --
> john

I've been thinking about the same issue and I'm
wondering whether it's necessary to "waste" a VCA just
to attenuate the CV of the MOTM380 LFO to feed into
the FM of a MOTM300... 
right now I keep the FM attenuator on the MOTM300
always between 0 and 1 (on a full scale of 0-10)... so
I was thinking if it would make sense to modify a
MOTM380 so that its output amplitude is smaller? Or
maybe I'm just missing something here again?

Best,

Dino


 

--- Jeff Laity <synthetic@...> wrote:

> Is this also the method for varying the amount that
> an LFO controls VCO 
> vibrato?
> 
> On Feb 21, 2005, at 3:33 PM, Paul Schreiber wrote:
> 
> > You need the "lower" VCA of the '190, that one is
> DC coupled.
> >
> >  Paul S.
> >
> >  ----- Original Message -----
> >  From: "Jeff Laity" <synthetic@...>
> >  To: "'MOTM List'" <motm@yahoogroups.com>
> >  Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 4:17 PM
> >  Subject: [motm] Using Velocity
> >
> >
> >  >
> >  > How do I use velocity to control a VCA? What I
> would like to do is 
> > have
> >  > the velocity CV from my MIDI/CV converter
> control the amount that 
> > the
> >  > envelope affects the VCA. I need some sort of
> VCA between the 
> > envelope
> >  > out CV and the VCA CV in. I tried using the
> first half of the 190, 
> > but
> >  > that didn't work so well. Do I need a DC VCA? I
> glanced through the
> >  > MOTM modules, but I didn't see any that mention
> this application.
> >  >
> 


		
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If it's just attenuation without any time dependency you virtually can
do that whereever you want (mostly depending on the rest of the
patch). If you want to control that remotely from a let's say MIDI
keyboard you will need a VCA which is controlled by the MIDI-CV interface.
However - no one stops you to grab the knobs of your modular when
playing ;-)

Did this answer your question?

   Michael.

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Dino Leone <d_p_leone@y...> wrote:

> I've been thinking about the same issue and I'm
> wondering whether it's necessary to "waste" a VCA just
> to attenuate the CV of the MOTM380 LFO to feed into
> the FM of a MOTM300... 
> right now I keep the FM attenuator on the MOTM300
> always between 0 and 1 (on a full scale of 0-10)... so
> I was thinking if it would make sense to modify a
> MOTM380 so that its output amplitude is smaller? Or
> maybe I'm just missing something here again?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Dino
> 
> 
>  
> 
> --- Jeff Laity <synthetic@e...> wrote:
> 
> > Is this also the method for varying the amount that
> > an LFO controls VCO 
> > vibrato?
> > 
> > On Feb 21, 2005, at 3:33 PM, Paul Schreiber wrote:
> > 
> > > You need the "lower" VCA of the '190, that one is
> > DC coupled.
> > >
> > >  Paul S.
> > >
> > >  ----- Original Message -----
> > >  From: "Jeff Laity" <synthetic@e...>
> > >  To: "'MOTM List'" <motm@yahoogroups.com>
> > >  Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 4:17 PM
> > >  Subject: [motm] Using Velocity
> > >
> > >
> > >  >
> > >  > How do I use velocity to control a VCA? What I
> > would like to do is 
> > > have
> > >  > the velocity CV from my MIDI/CV converter
> > control the amount that 
> > > the
> > >  > envelope affects the VCA. I need some sort of
> > VCA between the 
> > > envelope
> > >  > out CV and the VCA CV in. I tried using the
> > first half of the 190, 
> > > but
> > >  > that didn't work so well. Do I need a DC VCA? I
> > glanced through the
> > >  > MOTM modules, but I didn't see any that mention
> > this application.
> > >  >
> > 
> 
> 
> 		
> __________________________________ 
> Do you Yahoo!? 
> The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! 
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Thanks so much! It does indeed answer my question. I
also got a very good answer from Larry (shown below).
It seems I probably need both solutions - a simple
attenuation (read: home-made panel with a bunch of
pots)  and maybe some additional VCAs..


Thanks again,

Dino




J. Larry Hendry wrote:

I would not modify the output of my 380.  You have
better options.  If 
you
are just using the VCA as a static attenuator (i.e. no
voltage control 
of
the modulation amount) you have two other good
options.

1.  You can change one resistor in the MOTM-300 which
will change the 
gain
of the FM circuit.  So, the of 0-10 could be the
equivalent of say 0-5 
or
even less.

2. You could use a mixer to attenuate the sound. Or a
reversing 
attenuator
(like the Oakley multimix)

3.  You could build a simple passive attenuator for
this made from a 
single
pot and 2 jacks.

Larry



--- tontaub <egroups@...> wrote:

> 
> 
> If it's just attenuation without any time dependency
> you virtually can
> do that whereever you want (mostly depending on the
> rest of the
> patch). If you want to control that remotely from a
> let's say MIDI
> keyboard you will need a VCA which is controlled by
> the MIDI-CV interface.
> However - no one stops you to grab the knobs of your
> modular when
> playing ;-)
> 
> Did this answer your question?
> 
>    Michael.
> 
> --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Dino Leone
> <d_p_leone@y...> wrote:
> > I've been thinking about the same issue and I'm
> > wondering whether it's necessary to "waste" a VCA
> just
> > to attenuate the CV of the MOTM380 LFO to feed
> into
> > the FM of a MOTM300... 
> > right now I keep the FM attenuator on the MOTM300
> > always between 0 and 1 (on a full scale of
> 0-10)... so
> > I was thinking if it would make sense to modify a
> > MOTM380 so that its output amplitude is smaller?
> Or
> > maybe I'm just missing something here again?
> > 
> > Best,
> > 
> > Dino
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > --- Jeff Laity <synthetic@e...> wrote:
> > 
> > > Is this also the method for varying the amount
> that
> > > an LFO controls VCO 
> > > vibrato?
> > > 
> > > On Feb 21, 2005, at 3:33 PM, Paul Schreiber
> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > You need the "lower" VCA of the '190, that one
> is
> > > DC coupled.
> > > >
> > > >  Paul S.
> > > >
> > > >  ----- Original Message -----
> > > >  From: "Jeff Laity" <synthetic@e...>
> > > >  To: "'MOTM List'" <motm@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >  Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 4:17 PM
> > > >  Subject: [motm] Using Velocity
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  >
> > > >  > How do I use velocity to control a VCA?
> What I
> > > would like to do is 
> > > > have
> > > >  > the velocity CV from my MIDI/CV converter
> > > control the amount that 
> > > > the
> > > >  > envelope affects the VCA. I need some sort
> of
> > > VCA between the 
> > > > envelope
> > > >  > out CV and the VCA CV in. I tried using the
> > > first half of the 190, 
> > > > but
> > > >  > that didn't work so well. Do I need a DC
> VCA? I
> > > glanced through the
> > > >  > MOTM modules, but I didn't see any that
> mention
> > > this application.
> > > >  >
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 		
> > __________________________________ 
> > Do you Yahoo!? 
> > The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! 
> > http://my.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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I should have been more specific – I want to use the mod wheel to 
control LFO "depth" for vibrato. I'll use the pitch wheel for pitch 
changes and the mod wheel for vibrato for a lead sound, for example. I 
need a VCA for this, correct? The mod wheel CV goes to the CV in of the 
VCA, LFO goes to the VCA in, VCA out to VCO FM input. I can only use 
channel 2 of the 190, because this channel is DC coupled. Do I have 
this right? Is there another way to do this? I'm still trying to figure 
out how to do functions that I take for granted on preset synths.

On Feb 23, 2005, at 9:45 AM, Dino Leone wrote:

> Thanks so much! It does indeed answer my question. I
>  also got a very good answer from Larry (shown below).
>  It seems I probably need both solutions - a simple
>  attenuation (read: home-made panel with a bunch of
>  pots)  and maybe some additional VCAs..
>
>
>  Thanks again,
>
>  Dino
>
>
>
>
>  J. Larry Hendry wrote:
>
>  I would not modify the output of my 380.  You have
>  better options.  If
>  you
>  are just using the VCA as a static attenuator (i.e. no
>  voltage control
>  of
>  the modulation amount) you have two other good
>  options.
>
>  1.  You can change one resistor in the MOTM-300 which
>  will change the
>  gain
>  of the FM circuit.  So, the of 0-10 could be the
>  equivalent of say 0-5
>  or
>  even less.
>
>  2. You could use a mixer to attenuate the sound. Or a
>  reversing
>  attenuator
>  (like the Oakley multimix)
>
>  3.  You could build a simple passive attenuator for
>  this made from a
>  single
>  pot and 2 jacks.
>
>  Larry
>
>
>
>  --- tontaub <egroups@...> wrote:
>
>  >
>  >
>  > If it's just attenuation without any time dependency
>  > you virtually can
>  > do that whereever you want (mostly depending on the
>  > rest of the
>  > patch). If you want to control that remotely from a
>  > let's say MIDI
>  > keyboard you will need a VCA which is controlled by
>  > the MIDI-CV interface.
>  > However - no one stops you to grab the knobs of your
>  > modular when
>  > playing ;-)
>  >
>  > Did this answer your question?
>  >
>  >    Michael.
>  >
>  > --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Dino Leone
>  > <d_p_leone@y...> wrote:
>  > > I've been thinking about the same issue and I'm
>  > > wondering whether it's necessary to "waste" a VCA
>  > just
>  > > to attenuate the CV of the MOTM380 LFO to feed
>  > into
>  > > the FM of a MOTM300...
>  > > right now I keep the FM attenuator on the MOTM300
>  > > always between 0 and 1 (on a full scale of
>  > 0-10)... so
>  > > I was thinking if it would make sense to modify a
>  > > MOTM380 so that its output amplitude is smaller?
>  > Or
>  > > maybe I'm just missing something here again?
>  > >
>  > > Best,
>  > >
>  > > Dino
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > 
>  > >
>  > > --- Jeff Laity <synthetic@e...> wrote:
>  > >
>  > > > Is this also the method for varying the amount
>  > that
>  > > > an LFO controls VCO
>  > > > vibrato?
>  > > >
>  > > > On Feb 21, 2005, at 3:33 PM, Paul Schreiber
>  > wrote:
>  > > >
>  > > > > You need the "lower" VCA of the '190, that one
>  > is
>  > > > DC coupled.
>  > > > >
>  > > > >  Paul S.
>  > > > >
>  > > > >  ----- Original Message -----
>  > > > >  From: "Jeff Laity" <synthetic@e...>
>  > > > >  To: "'MOTM List'" <motm@yahoogroups.com>
>  > > > >  Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 4:17 PM
>  > > > >  Subject: [motm] Using Velocity
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >  >
>  > > > >  > How do I use velocity to control a VCA?
>  > What I
>  > > > would like to do is
>  > > > > have
>  > > > >  > the velocity CV from my MIDI/CV converter
>  > > > control the amount that
>  > > > > the
>  > > > >  > envelope affects the VCA. I need some sort
>  > of
>  > > > VCA between the
>  > > > > envelope
>  > > > >  > out CV and the VCA CV in. I tried using the
>  > > > first half of the 190,
>  > > > > but
>  > > > >  > that didn't work so well. Do I need a DC
>  > VCA? I
>  > > > glanced through the
>  > > > >  > MOTM modules, but I didn't see any that
>  > mention
>  > > > this application.
>  > > > >  >
>  > > >
>  > >
>  > >

Hi,

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Dino Leone <d_p_leone@y...> wrote:
> It seems I probably need both solutions - a simple
> attenuation (read: home-made panel with a bunch of
> pots)  and maybe some additional VCAs..

... one never can have too many VCAs  ;-)

I'd consider an Oakley Multimix anyway.
As Larry stated it's an reversing attenuator.
And with the change of some resistors you also can achieve an
amplification which gives a range of let's say of a factor from -2 ...
+2 if you want. It's a quite versatile module in 1U.

HTH, Michael.

Hi,

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Dino Leone <d_p_leone@y...> wrote:
> It seems I probably need both solutions - a simple
> attenuation (read: home-made panel with a bunch of
> pots)  and maybe some additional VCAs..

... one never can have too many VCAs  ;-)

I'd consider an Oakley Multimix anyway.
As Larry stated it's an reversing attenuator.
And with the change of some resistors you also can achieve an
amplification which gives a range of let's say of a factor from -2 ...
+2 if you want. It's a quite versatile module in 1U.

HTH, Michael.

Hi,

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Laity <synthetic@e...> wrote:
> I want to use the mod wheel to 
> control LFO "depth" for vibrato. I'll use the pitch wheel for pitch 
> changes and the mod wheel for vibrato for a lead sound, for example.
> I need a VCA for this, correct? 

Yes.

> The mod wheel CV goes to the CV in of the 
> VCA, LFO goes to the VCA in, VCA out to VCO FM input. 

Yes.

> I can only use 
> channel 2 of the 190, because this channel is DC coupled. Do I have 
> this right? 

Yes.

> Is there another way to do this? 

Not to my knowledge.
Whenever you want to change the level of a signal you need an
attenuator and/or amplifier. Both CV controllable. That is a VCA.
The only thing you've to take into account is wether the signal has to
be DC coupled or not. That can become quite complex. But take your time.

> I'm still trying to figure 
> out how to do functions that I take for granted on preset synths.

Regardless if the synth is digital or analouge or whatever ;-) , it's
basically doing the same thing. 

You're on the right track!

  Have fun, :-) Michael.

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Laity <synthetic@e...> wrote:
> I should have been more specific – I want to use the mod wheel to 
> control LFO "depth" for vibrato. I'll use the pitch wheel for pitch 
> changes and the mod wheel for vibrato for a lead sound, for example. 

If you haven't already got a MIDI-CV converter, can I recommend the
Kenton Pro-2000?  That provides a couple of (digital) LFOs internally,
the amplitude of which can be controlled by MIDI controllers or
aftertouch or whatever.   The LFO output can then be added internally
to the CV output (together with pitch wheel info), so that you don't
need a mixer/LFO/whatever else...

Obviously the MOTM modules can handle everything you could want, but I
find myself using the Kenton internal stuff by default for pitch bend
and vibrato.   It's cheap and it leaves my modules free for handling
the more outrageous stuff.

(It does a reasonable portmento too, though there I prefer to use the
MOTM for it because of the CV'able up/down times).

Harry