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Re: [motm] test -sorry

Re: [motm] test -sorry

2000-05-09 by Thomas Hudson

jhaible wrote:
> 
> Strangely quiet on 2 lists at the same time
> 
Okay, I'll pipe up. I just finished a MOTM 410 and spent the 
last two hours running a single VCO through the unit and twiddling. 

One word; Awesome.

The stereo effects are a dream come true. I wanted this for
the Jean-Michel Jarre type sounds, but I was afraid it would be
a one trick pony. It isn't. I haven't even started experimenting 
with using any of the external voltage control options.

Now I need to build a preamp to boost a line signal to 10vptp,
because I've got to run a guitar through this thing. Actually, 
guitar into univibe into 410 into mixer. 

I noticed when building the unit that it used JRC 4558's. This
is the chip that supposedly is responsible for the legendary tube
screamer sound. Other 4558's don't seem to cut it. Jack Orman
has a good discussion about this here:

http://www.muzique.com/lab/latch.htm

Paul, where did you get these chips, and are there any more to be 
found? 

Thomas

Re: [motm] test -sorry

2000-05-09 by jwbarlow@aol.com

In a message dated 5/8/2000 3:21:48 PM, jhaible@... writes:

>Strangely quiet 

It is a bit quiet, so I'll add some more strange.

1) I just finished listening to the "Ohm Electronic Gurus" 3 CD set (it was 
listed at $40 but it rang up at $33 at Tower -- well worth it since it has 
many historic pieces, I don't usually like compilations but a lot of this 
stuff isn't available in other forms I'm sure).

2) I also picked up a CD called "Early Modulations Vintage Volts" which is a 
great companion to the Early Gurus CD (for example, it has the 1961 Max 
Mathews cut of "Bicycle Built for Two" which I remembered from when I was a 
kid but had no idea who did it or when). I think this CD might be the Art 
music corollary to the film "Modulations" which I've only seen a portion of 
but looks at least somewhat interesting.

3) Thanks to Dave Trenkel, I've ordered the Henry CD "Variations for a Door 
and a Sigh" for like $8.99!!!! I've also ordered the Conlon Nancarrow box 
set. (thanks to this list I'm really getting back to listening to 
experimental and avante garde musics -- albeit mostly older stuff -- but so 
many people on this list have really got me thinking about this stuff again)

4) Is there any target date for the 820 to ship? I know there's talk of Paul 
going on vacation, so I'm wondering if it will ship before or after that.

5) Is John Blacet on the MOTM list now? I just saw a post of his.

6) Any word on those flat cabinet rails?

7) Did anyone hear the bit on (you guessed it) NPR about John Cage's 4'33" 
today?

8)
In a message dated 5/8/2000 5:55:47 PM, thudson@... writes:

>I noticed when building the unit that it used JRC 4558's. This
>is the chip that supposedly is responsible for the legendary tube
>screamer sound. Other 4558's don't seem to cut it. Jack Orman
>has a good discussion about this here:
>
>http://www.muzique.com/lab/latch.htm

I need to look at your reference here, but I'm also interested in the 
availability of these since Tomy has previously got interested in making a 
Tube Screamer -- what a variety of great people we have on this list!

JB

Re: [motm] test -sorry

2000-05-09 by J. Larry Hendry

> From: jwbarlow@...
> 5) Is John Blacet on the MOTM list now? I just saw a post of his.

I think that was a "reply" to a cross posted message by JH originally sent
to both diy and MOTM.

Re: [motm] test -sorry

2000-05-09 by jhaible

> > Strangely quiet on 2 lists at the same time
> >
> Okay, I'll pipe up. I just finished a MOTM 410 and spent the
> last two hours running a single VCO through the unit and twiddling.
>
> One word; Awesome.

Nice to hear this !

> Now I need to build a preamp to boost a line signal to 10vptp,
> because I've got to run a guitar through this thing. Actually,
> guitar into univibe into 410 into mixer.

I haven't tried a guitar, but I'm running synths (main output,
"line level") directly thru the same circuit as the MOTM 410
without boosting the signal, and I never had noise problems -
one benefit of the optoelectronic filter technology.
So if you want to use the 410 as a stand alone unit (instrument
-> filter -> mixing desk), just try it as it is.

> I noticed when building the unit that it used JRC 4558's. This
> is the chip that supposedly is responsible for the legendary tube
> screamer sound.

I tried a lot of different ones, including some modern Analog
Devices types, but this is what I liked most. It just sounds "right"
in this circuit.

JH.

Re: [motm] test -sorry

2000-05-09 by Tony Allgood

Hi all,

JH>I haven't tried a guitar, but I'm running synths (main output, "line
level") directly thru the same circuit as the MOTM 410 without boosting
the signal, and I never had noise problems.

I have found the very same thing. Very quiet indeed. But the guitar will
probably like a higher impedance than the front end of the 410 can
offer... try driving the 410 from the output of an effects pedal.

Regards,

Tony Allgood  Penrith, Cumbria, UK

Modular synth circuits, TB303 clone and Filter Rack

http://www.techrepairs.freeserve.co.uk/projects.htm

Re: [motm] test -sorry

2000-05-09 by jhaible

> I have found the very same thing. Very quiet indeed. But the guitar will
> probably like a higher impedance than the front end of the 410 can
> offer... try driving the 410 from the output of an effects pedal.

Good point !
And then, enriching the sound for a broader harmonic contents might
be a good thing as well, before you're starting to filter.
So, a Fuzz / Overdrive in front of the 410 might be just right ...

JH.

Re: [motm] test -sorry

2000-05-09 by improv@peak.org

>In a message dated 5/8/2000 3:21:48 PM, jhaible@... writes:
>
>>Strangely quiet
>
>It is a bit quiet, so I'll add some more strange.
>
>1) I just finished listening to the "Ohm Electronic Gurus" 3 CD set (it was
>listed at $40 but it rang up at $33 at Tower -- well worth it since it has
>many historic pieces, I don't usually like compilations but a lot of this
>stuff isn't available in other forms I'm sure).

I'm also not generally a fan of compilations, especially those that try to
sum up an entire musical genre, but the Ohm collection really works for me
because it has a bunch of stuff I don't have otherwise, and the compilers
really seem to have put some effort into making it a really listenable
collection, at least IMHO. I've pretty much been playing at least one disc
from the set every day lately while I work, and I'm enjoying it still.
>
>2) I also picked up a CD called "Early Modulations Vintage Volts" which is a
>great companion to the Early Gurus CD (for example, it has the 1961 Max
>Mathews cut of "Bicycle Built for Two" which I remembered from when I was a
>kid but had no idea who did it or when). I think this CD might be the Art
>music corollary to the film "Modulations" which I've only seen a portion of
>but looks at least somewhat interesting.

I'd heard about the Early Modulations set, but haven't seen a copy yet. Is
there much crossover between it and the Ohm collection?

>
>3) Thanks to Dave Trenkel, I've ordered the Henry CD "Variations for a Door
>and a Sigh" for like $8.99!!!! I've also ordered the Conlon Nancarrow box
>set. (thanks to this list I'm really getting back to listening to
>experimental and avante garde musics -- albeit mostly older stuff -- but so
>many people on this list have really got me thinking about this stuff again)

Great price on the Henry CD! The new Wire reviews a new and huge box set of
his stuff, pretty tempting, but since it's like 8CD's and a French import,
I could probably buy a few modules for the price. The Nancarrow collection
is essential, I have most of it as individual CD's, and it blows my mind on
a regular basis. One observation: my girlfriend Melissa, who is generally a
fan of non-normal musics, in fact she's probably a bigger free-improv fan
than I am (I know, I'm incredibly lucky to be with someone like her!),
cannot stand Nancarrow. She says it's the most annoying music she can think
of.

____________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@...
Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic
Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus-
____________________________________________

MOTM Magic Bags(r)--Beware!

2000-05-09 by Tentochi

Too late.  I already took his advice for putting weed in it.  Here are the
results:

Dandelions--the yellow flowers turned purple in the MOTM bags
Foxtail--turned into beaver tail
Poison Ivy--turned into English Ivy, but was three times itchier
Clover--at first they had 4 leaves, then 7, then thousands
Field Bindweed--smelled like steak and onions after being in the bag only 10
seconds
Crabgrass--tasted just like Maine soft-shelled crabs
Mallow--turned into melted marshmallow from a s'mora
Purslane--was able to cover my bald spot with it after removing from the
magic bag
Sheperd's Purse--turned into kangaroo's pouch
Downy Brome--its purple flowers turned to wheat flower
Sandbur--turned into a ferret

Moral--beware of Paul's Magic Bags(r)

Shemp
"Your personal guide to MOTM alchemy!"
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> BTW, someone mentioned putting "weed" in these bags. While that
> reference is
> clearly Stooge protected material (they're movin into out turf
> guys!) there
> are good reasons not to do that.
> 1) It's illegal!
> 2) It damages short term memory.
> 3) Electronic components contain all kinds of bad stuff like
> solvents, oils,
> and other chemicals and lead -- which you probably don't want to
> be ingesting.
> 4) It damages short term memory.

Re: [motm] test -sorry

2000-05-10 by jwbarlow@aol.com

>> Okay, I'll pipe up. I just finished a MOTM 410 and spent the
>> last two hours running a single VCO through the unit and twiddling.
>>
>> One word; Awesome.
>
>Nice to hear this !
>

I just want to concur with Tomy here (sorry to repeat myself listers). This 
was a module I fully intended NOT to buy (I thought I didn't need a BP, and I 
kind of didn't like the idea of internal LFOs) .... then I heard Paul's demo 
file and it turned me around completely, I had to get one (and I'm glad I 
did). 

Which leads me to mention some of the reasons why we're glad to have you 
here, JH. You clearly have at least two areas of interest in your designs, 
one being the "classic circuits" (as seen with the MOTM 420, 410, 440), with 
the second being powerful and novel modules (like the MOTM 320, and 820 -- 
which I've heard SO MUCH ABOUT from one list member). I've always been more 
interested in the second much more than the first since most modulars I've 
used only had that brand of VCF (no choice about topology), but you and Paul 
have really turned me around on that one. I hope those who are more 
interested in the classic modules will similarly find the more powerful and 
exotic modules a great surprise.


In a message dated 5/8/2000 7:02:47 PM, synth1@... writes:

>c) The NJR4558 is still available (world's best cheap audio amp, period!)
>However, as I recall, there
>was an issue with the Ibanez TS series that only *certain date codes* of
>4558s are desired.

Yeah, one of the things that Keen mentions is that you can order JRC4558s, 
but you receive NJR4458s (which are claimed to sound bad -- remember we're 
talking guitar players here). The magic ones are said to be JRC4558D.

I tend to like my guitar to go preamp to the 410 (no other effects). I 
typically use the wa (or flanger) pre distortion -- counterintuitive, but 
much more intense sounding.


In a message dated 5/8/2000 11:30:18 PM, thudson@... writes:

>BTW, would it help to send back any of the packaging? All those
>nicely labeled "MOTM-xxx RESISTORS", "MOTM-xxx CAPACITORS",
>etc? Maybe my wife has finally converted me to the ultimate 
>recycling fanatic, we have more recycling than trash.

I agree here! I've got a garage full of styrofoam packing material and a 
thousand bags labeled "organic solder".

BTW, someone mentioned putting "weed" in these bags. While that reference is 
clearly Stooge protected material (they're movin into out turf guys!) there 
are good reasons not to do that.
1) It's illegal!
2) It damages short term memory.
3) Electronic components contain all kinds of bad stuff like solvents, oils, 
and other chemicals and lead -- which you probably don't want to be ingesting.
4) It damages short term memory.

JB

Re: [motm] test -sorry

2000-05-10 by Thomas Hudson

jwbarlow@... wrote:

> I tend to like my guitar to go preamp to the 410 (no other effects). I
> typically use the wa (or flanger) pre distortion -- counterintuitive, but
> much more intense sounding.
> 
Ahh. Like the great Zen master JH. No the other one, Jimi Hendrix. Wah 
before fuzz face. Much different sound, I prefer it this way also.

I have a Digitech TSR-24 which allows you to select the various DSP
modules and define the connection order(s). I need to program the 
topology of the 410 only with flangers. Might be interesting.

Thanks for the info about the JRC4558D. 

Tomy

Re: [motm] test -sorry

2000-05-10 by jwbarlow@aol.com

In a message dated 5/9/2000 3:55:08 PM, improv@... writes:

>I'm also not generally a fan of compilations, especially those that try
>to
>sum up an entire musical genre, but the Ohm collection really works for
>me
>because it has a bunch of stuff I don't have otherwise, and the compilers
>really seem to have put some effort into making it a really listenable
>collection, at least IMHO. I've pretty much been playing at least one disc
>from the set every day lately while I work, and I'm enjoying it still.


And I bet your coworkers love it too! Yeah, I think it does the history as 
well as it could be done on 3 discs, but great liner notes too (going to the 
composers in most cases).


>I'd heard about the Early Modulations set, but haven't seen a copy yet.
>Is
>there much crossover between it and the Ohm collection?

Not much in terms of pieces, but definitely in terms of composers. Here's the 
list:
1) INCANTATIONS -- Luening and Ussachevsky
2) BICYCLE BUILT FOR TWO -- Max Mathews
3) ETUDE AUX CHEMINS DE FER -- Schaeffer
4) CONCERT PH -- Xenakis
5) IMAGINARY LANDSCAPE NO. 1 -- Cage
6) TRENI D'ONDA A MODULAZIONE D'INTENSITA -- Vittorio Gelmetti
7) PIECE FOR TAPE RECORDER -- Ussachevsky
8) TETE ET QUEUE DU DRAGON -- Luc Ferrari
9) SILVER APPLES OF THE MOON -- Subotnick

Some of these are excerpts (Silver Apples is only the second half), and the 
"liner notes" aren't really about the music (as in duration, when recorded, 
let alone equipment and other technical stuff) so it's not nearly as good as 
the Ohm set. But a good companion if you don't have any of this stuff. 

Has anyone seen the movie "Modulations"?


>Great price on the Henry CD! The new Wire reviews a new and huge box set
>of
>his stuff, pretty tempting, but since it's like 8CD's and a French import,
>I could probably buy a few modules for the price. 

That's got to be one of Paul Simon's fifty ways to leave your lover. You just 
pick up the 8 CD Pierre Henry box set at import prices and play it repeatedly 
saying, "this is so good! Isn't it honey?"

The Nancarrow collection
>is essential, I have most of it as individual CD's, and it blows my mind
>on
>a regular basis. One observation: my girlfriend Melissa, who is generally
>a
>fan of non-normal musics, in fact she's probably a bigger free-improv fan
>than I am (I know, I'm incredibly lucky to be with someone like her!),
>cannot stand Nancarrow. She says it's the most annoying music she can think
>of.

Sorry to hear that, though be thankful for general tolerance there. I can 
point to Nancarrow as one of the most important reasons I got into EM. In the 
late 70s I got some experimental piano records from the library mainly to 
hear the quarter tone stuff, and was blown away by Cage's prepared piano and 
Nancarrow's player piano. Absolutely blew away my preconceptions about the 
piano and music.

Hi Chuck,

>I've been sitting here reading the daily digests of these proceedings
>for about a month and figured it's time I put in my two cents worth...

>To John B.; I'm going to get those CD's too. May I also suggest John
>Cage's "Indeterminancy" (Smithsonian/Folkways SF40804/5), a 2-CD set.
>It's a 90 min. lecture made up of 90 stories with a zen slant. The long
>stories are spoken rapidly, while the short ones are drawn out, all the
>while David Tudor is banging on a prepared piano and twiddling a short
>wave radio. One of MY favorite party albums, but then, I have weird
>parties.

I know I've heard the records. I've got to start getting this stuff on CD -- 
you're right, this is classic. You'll have to invite us to a party sometime 
-- BYOMOTM.

JB

Re: [motm] test -sorry

2000-05-10 by improv@peak.org

>In a message dated 5/9/2000 3:55:08 PM, improv@... writes:
>
>>I'm also not generally a fan of compilations, especially those that try
>>to
>>sum up an entire musical genre, but the Ohm collection really works for
>>me
>>because it has a bunch of stuff I don't have otherwise, and the compilers
>>really seem to have put some effort into making it a really listenable
>>collection, at least IMHO. I've pretty much been playing at least one disc
>>from the set every day lately while I work, and I'm enjoying it still.
>
>
>And I bet your coworkers love it too! Yeah, I think it does the history as
>well as it could be done on 3 discs, but great liner notes too (going to the
>composers in most cases).
>
Well, I'm one of those lucky work at home types. The only complaints I get
are from the cats...
>
>>I'd heard about the Early Modulations set, but haven't seen a copy yet.
>>Is
>>there much crossover between it and the Ohm collection?
>
>Not much in terms of pieces, but definitely in terms of composers. Here's the
>list:
>1) INCANTATIONS -- Luening and Ussachevsky
>2) BICYCLE BUILT FOR TWO -- Max Mathews
>3) ETUDE AUX CHEMINS DE FER -- Schaeffer
>4) CONCERT PH -- Xenakis
>5) IMAGINARY LANDSCAPE NO. 1 -- Cage
>6) TRENI D'ONDA A MODULAZIONE D'INTENSITA -- Vittorio Gelmetti
>7) PIECE FOR TAPE RECORDER -- Ussachevsky
>8) TETE ET QUEUE DU DRAGON -- Luc Ferrari
>9) SILVER APPLES OF THE MOON -- Subotnick
>
>Some of these are excerpts (Silver Apples is only the second half), and the
>"liner notes" aren't really about the music (as in duration, when recorded,
>let alone equipment and other technical stuff) so it's not nearly as good as
>the Ohm set. But a good companion if you don't have any of this stuff.
>
Looks like a good comp, I don't have either Concret PH or Imaginary
Landscape on CD, so mit's probably worth it for those. But how many copies
of Silver Apples do I really need?

>Has anyone seen the movie "Modulations"?

Not yet, I've been bugging my local indie video place to stock it.
>
>
>>Great price on the Henry CD! The new Wire reviews a new and huge box set
>>of
>>his stuff, pretty tempting, but since it's like 8CD's and a French import,
>>I could probably buy a few modules for the price.
>
>That's got to be one of Paul Simon's fifty ways to leave your lover. You just
>pick up the 8 CD Pierre Henry box set at import prices and play it repeatedly
>saying, "this is so good! Isn't it honey?"

He he he. Good way to break a lease as well. Actually, Melissa would
probably approve the Henry box, it's the King Crimson box sets that bug
her...


____________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@...
Minus Web Site: http://listen.to/minusmusic
Minus MP3's: http://www.mp3.com/-minus-
____________________________________________

Re: [motm] test -sorry

2000-05-11 by jwbarlow@aol.com

In a message dated 5/10/2000 9:49:40 AM, improv@... writes:

>Looks like a good comp, I don't have either Concret PH or Imaginary
>Landscape on CD, so mit's probably worth it for those. But how many copies
>of Silver Apples do I really need?


How manys ya got? I might be interested in a trade -- I actually don't have 
it on CD or vinyl (I swear I did).

>>Has anyone seen the movie "Modulations"?
>
>Not yet, I've been bugging my local indie video place to stock it.

Oddly enough, I might be able to help you here -- I'll get back to you.

>>>Great price on the Henry CD! The new Wire reviews a new and huge box
>set
>>>of
>>>his stuff, pretty tempting, but since it's like 8CD's and a French import,
>>>I could probably buy a few modules for the price.
>>
>>That's got to be one of Paul Simon's fifty ways to leave your lover. You
>just
>>pick up the 8 CD Pierre Henry box set at import prices and play it 
repeatedly
>>saying, "this is so good! Isn't it honey?"

I don't know "Wire" I'll check it out.

>He he he. Good way to break a lease as well. Actually, Melissa would
>probably approve the Henry box, it's the King Crimson box sets that bug
>her...

 
You mean the ones that come out every 6 months?
JB

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