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2000-05-17 by mark scetta
i still get a glitch sound every time my S&H outputs, in both track and hold modes (much bigger glitch in track mode). try it: with nothing plugged into the MOTM-100, listen to the output in both modes. i have tried putting a resistor in series with the output and small cap across the output to ground, to no avail. how are you guys using your S&H? doesn't this bother anyone? thanks ahead, mark
2000-05-17 by Dave Bradley
Are you listening to the S&H output as an audio device? That's not what it is meant for! It generates control voltages to modulate filter and oscillator tuning, etc. The output is a varying dc voltage, and will cause clicks or thumps if you try to listen to it directly. For the same reason, you can't listen to the output of an envelope generator. Dave Bradley Principal Software Engineer Engineering Animation, Inc. daveb@...
> -----Original Message----- > From: mark scetta [mailto:n0nspaz@...] > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 12:34 PM > To: motm@egroups.com > Subject: [motm] motm100 tech ? > > > > i still get a glitch sound every time my S&H outputs, in both track and > hold modes (much bigger glitch in track mode). try it: with > nothing plugged > into the MOTM-100, listen to the output in both modes. > > i have tried putting a resistor in series with the output and small cap > across the output to ground, to no avail. how are you guys using > your S&H? > doesn't this bother anyone? > > thanks ahead, > mark > >
2000-05-17 by Tentochi
Haven't put a scope on it yet, but I have it on the start of every new pitch (output) also. Very irritating sometimes most of the time. I was listening to it critically with a friend the other evening and it was really prominant. I will be interested in what Paul has to say on his return. --Shemp
> i still get a glitch sound every time my S&H outputs, in both track and > hold modes (much bigger glitch in track mode). try it: with > nothing plugged > into the MOTM-100, listen to the output in both modes.
2000-05-17 by Tentochi
S/H into CV in of VCO..... --Shemp
> -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Bradley [mailto:daveb@...] > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 1:41 PM > To: motm@egroups.com > Subject: RE: [motm] motm100 tech ? > > > Are you listening to the S&H output as an audio device? That's not what it > is meant for! It generates control voltages to modulate filter and > oscillator tuning, etc. The output is a varying dc voltage, and will cause > clicks or thumps if you try to listen to it directly. For the same reason, > you can't listen to the output of an envelope generator. > > Dave Bradley > Principal Software Engineer > Engineering Animation, Inc. > daveb@... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mark scetta [mailto:n0nspaz@...] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 12:34 PM > > To: motm@egroups.com > > Subject: [motm] motm100 tech ? > > > > > > > > i still get a glitch sound every time my S&H outputs, in both track and > > hold modes (much bigger glitch in track mode). try it: with > > nothing plugged > > into the MOTM-100, listen to the output in both modes. > > > > i have tried putting a resistor in series with the output and small cap > > across the output to ground, to no avail. how are you guys using > > your S&H? > > doesn't this bother anyone? > > > > thanks ahead, > > mark > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > $60 in FREE Long Distance! Click Here to join beMANY! today. > http://click.egroups.com/1/4126/5/_/529958/_/958585308/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >
2000-05-17 by ivancu@aol.com
In a message dated 05/17/2000 1:42:28 PM, daveb@... writes: << For the same reason, you can't listen to the output of an envelope generator. >> Well, I have been known to get a nice click out of an EG to add to percussion sounds. Ivan
2000-05-17 by Dave Bradley
Yes, but this plays back into the original point: listening to dc voltages results in pops, thuds, or clicks. That smell you just smelled is your tweeter frying. Your direct coupled amp burned up the voice coil by attempting to push it out and hold it there, because it's amplifying dc! Dave Bradley Principal Software Engineer Engineering Animation, Inc. daveb@...
> -----Original Message----- > From: ivancu@... [mailto:ivancu@...] > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 12:51 PM > To: motm@egroups.com > Subject: Re: RE: [motm] motm100 tech ? > > > > In a message dated 05/17/2000 1:42:28 PM, daveb@... writes: > > << For the same reason, you can't listen to the output of an envelope > generator. >> > > Well, I have been known to get a nice click out of an EG to add > to percussion > sounds. > > Ivan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations. > Remember the good 'ol days > http://click.egroups.com/1/4053/5/_/529958/_/958585854/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >
2000-05-17 by Brousseau, Paul E (Paul)
Really? I don't own one (yet), but I was expecting that I could route audio into it and listen to the results (at least, if it was sampling at an audio rate). Bummer. If I wanted to get a low-rate sampler effect on an unspecified audio source (I.E., something I don't have control over), how would I achieve that? --PBr
> -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Bradley [SMTP:daveb@...] > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 10:41 AM > To: motm@egroups.com > Subject: RE: [motm] motm100 tech ? > > Are you listening to the S&H output as an audio device? That's not what it > is meant for! It generates control voltages to modulate filter and > oscillator tuning, etc. The output is a varying dc voltage, and will cause > clicks or thumps if you try to listen to it directly. For the same reason, > you can't listen to the output of an envelope generator. >
2000-05-17 by Doug Pearson
You run the output of your unspecified audio source into the audio input of a VCF, and the S&H output into the 1V/Oct or FM input of the same VCF. -Doug ceres@... At 11:02 AM 05/17/2000 -0700, "Brousseau, Paul E (Paul)" <noise@...> wrote:
>Really? I don't own one (yet), but I was expecting that I could route audio >into it and listen to the results (at least, if it was sampling at an audio >rate). Bummer. If I wanted to get a low-rate sampler effect on an >unspecified audio source (I.E., something I don't have control over), how >would I achieve that? > >--PBr
2000-05-17 by Doug Pearson
At 12:40 PM 05/17/2000 -0500, "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...> wrote: >For the same reason, >you can't listen to the output of an envelope generator. You can if the attack & release are short enough and you re-trigger it quickly enough. I've used auto-retriggering EG's that could go into audio range ... -Doug ceres@...
2000-05-17 by ivancu@aol.com
In a message dated 05/17/2000 2:01:49 PM, daveb@... writes: << That smell you just smelled is your tweeter frying. Your direct coupled amp burned up the voice coil by attempting to push it out and hold it there, because it's amplifying dc! >> Ok, pissing contest warning... If I were biamping my monitor system it MIGHT be possible for this to occur. However, with my friendly passive crossover network between the power amp and tweeter, those nasty DC pulses are conveniently block by our friend the capacitor. Actually, I think the signal might have lost its direct-current nature somewhere in my mixing console... Ivan
2000-05-17 by Brousseau, Paul E (Paul)
I think that would produce a different effect. What I'm interested in is "sampling" the input at something like 2kHz, or 8kHz, so it gets that crappy ancient-soundcard or sampler feeling. I suppose the "right" way of doing this is to send the signal into a A/D->D/A system, clocked at whatever rate I'm interested in. However, if we're clocking at audio rates, if there still a popping issue? I mean, isn't this what those old D/A systems are doing? Every time slice, they're holding the analog signal at some DC value, until it gets changed in the next time slice? Thanks! --PBr
> -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Pearson [SMTP:ceres@...] > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 11:09 AM > To: motm@egroups.com > Subject: RE: [motm] motm100 tech ? > > You run the output of your unspecified audio source into the audio input > of > a VCF, and the S&H output into the 1V/Oct or FM input of the same VCF. > > -Doug > ceres@... > > At 11:02 AM 05/17/2000 -0700, "Brousseau, Paul E (Paul)" > <noise@...> > wrote: > >Really? I don't own one (yet), but I was expecting that I could route > audio > >into it and listen to the results (at least, if it was sampling at an > audio > >rate). Bummer. If I wanted to get a low-rate sampler effect on an > >unspecified audio source (I.E., something I don't have control over), how > >would I achieve that? >
2000-05-17 by Dave Bradley
> > At 12:40 PM 05/17/2000 -0500, "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...> wrote: > >For the same reason, > >you can't listen to the output of an envelope generator. > > You can if the attack & release are short enough and you re-trigger it > quickly enough. I've used auto-retriggering EG's that could go into audio > range ... > True! Dave
2000-05-17 by Dave Bradley
I haven't tried this, but it's my impression that the MOTM-100 and other traditional analog SH circuits are optimized for rather slow speed clocking, and are more concerned about dc drift problems. I doubt you'd be able to clock it at the kilohertz speeds necessary to use as a digitizer for analog audio signals. You'd need something with very quick acquisition times. An audio sampling module with VC of word width, sampling rate, dithering level, and output filter freq. would be an interesting sound mangling diy module. Avoid the complications of sample storage, and just turn around and convert the digital back to analog. Hmmm.... Dave Bradley Principal Software Engineer Engineering Animation, Inc. daveb@... >>>>>> You run the output of your unspecified audio source into the audio input of a VCF, and the S&H output into the 1V/Oct or FM input of the same VCF. -Doug <<<<<<
> -----Original Message----- > From: Brousseau, Paul E (Paul) [mailto:noise@...] > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 1:02 PM > To: 'motm@egroups.com' > Subject: RE: [motm] motm100 tech ? > > > Really? I don't own one (yet), but I was expecting that I could > route audio > into it and listen to the results (at least, if it was sampling > at an audio > rate). Bummer. If I wanted to get a low-rate sampler effect on an > unspecified audio source (I.E., something I don't have control over), how > would I achieve that? > > --PBr
2000-05-17 by Dave Bradley
My 100 doesn't do this at all. Pitch changes on a controlled VCO are absolutely clean. Seems that a few people's modules do have this problem, however. Paul added some filtering (or was it a slew rate pot?) to the MOTM-101 to address these concerns, so the new modules should be tweakable to eliminate any glitches. Dave Bradley Principal Software Engineer Engineering Animation, Inc. daveb@...
> -----Original Message----- > From: Tentochi [mailto:tentochi@...] > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 12:43 PM > To: motm@egroups.com > Subject: RE: [motm] motm100 tech ? > > > Haven't put a scope on it yet, but I have it on the start of > every new pitch > (output) also. Very irritating sometimes most of the time. I > was listening > to it critically with a friend the other evening and it was really > prominant. I will be interested in what Paul has to say on his return. > > --Shemp > > > i still get a glitch sound every time my S&H outputs, in both track and > > hold modes (much bigger glitch in track mode). try it: with > > nothing plugged > > into the MOTM-100, listen to the output in both modes. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com: > http://click.egroups.com/1/4052/5/_/529958/_/958599675/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >
2000-05-18 by jwbarlow@aol.com
OK, I'm kind of lost here! You CAN run audio into both inputs of a S/H module. I used to do this A LOT to get a nastier timbre (than one of the four simple waveforms). One of the few classic examples of S/H use is to put a saw in to the CV input, and a faster square into the clock to get a "staircase wave." Well, there's no reason you can't run that clock well up into the audio range, but the output will always be a staircase (given the saw input). Moe is right about the range of the module. I do remember the MOTM S/H starting to disappear in the upper audio range, though I forget how high. I've found there's lots of good stuff that can be done with two or more VCOs and S/H and synching -- very odd cyclic stuff. Maybe others can comment more specifically on these patches? I don't remember the sound produced with a mic (preamp) into the CV input but I do think it would produce a very nasty lo fi sound, which I gather is what you're after. JB In a message dated 5/17/2000 11:36:59 AM, noise@... writes:
>I think that would produce a different effect. What I'm interested in >is >"sampling" the input at something like 2kHz, or 8kHz, so it gets that crappy >ancient-soundcard or sampler feeling. I suppose the "right" way of doing >this is to send the signal into a A/D->D/A system, clocked at whatever >rate >I'm interested in. > >However, if we're clocking at audio rates, if there still a popping issue? >I mean, isn't this what those old D/A systems are doing? Every time slice, >they're holding the analog signal at some DC value, until it gets changed >in >the next time slice? >
2000-05-22 by Paul Schreiber
The MOTM-100 has a known...errr....."issue" that when the S&H is in the sample state, whatever is at the input is passed to the output. This occurs for 2ms. There was a published fix last year: solder a 0.1uf cap (any old cap will work) directly across the output jack terminals (one end on the ground, the other on the conductor lug). Paul S. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tentochi <tentochi@...> To: <motm@egroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 12:42 PM Subject: RE: [motm] motm100 tech ? > Haven't put a scope on it yet, but I have it on the start of every new pitch > (output) also. Very irritating sometimes most of the time. I was listening
> to it critically with a friend the other evening and it was really > prominant. I will be interested in what Paul has to say on his return. > > --Shemp > > > i still get a glitch sound every time my S&H outputs, in both track and > > hold modes (much bigger glitch in track mode). try it: with > > nothing plugged > > into the MOTM-100, listen to the output in both modes. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com: > http://click.egroups.com/1/4052/5/_/529958/_/958599675/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >
2000-05-22 by mark scetta
paul, i have done this (used a 0.1uF ceramic disc) to no avail. i also have a 1K resistor in series with the output conductor, at the jack. mark At 07:03 AM 5/22/00 +0000, you wrote:
>The MOTM-100 has a known...errr....."issue" that when the S&H is in the >sample state, whatever >is at the input is passed to the output. This occurs for 2ms. > >There was a published fix last year: solder a 0.1uf cap (any old cap will >work) directly across >the output jack terminals (one end on the ground, the other on the conductor >lug). > >Paul S.