MOTM

In a message dated 7/20/2000 7:01:01 AM, ken.tkacs@... writes:

>
>Yes, that's right-

Thanks Ken for this more accurate (and detailed) explanation!

>Since the input signal can be anywhere from 0-20kHz in frequency, usually
>there is a "Range" control, such a as three position switch, to control
>the
>general "speed" of the integrator, tailoring it to a good range for the
>input signal. That gives you a voltage out corresponding pretty nicely
>with
>the envelope of the input signal, which is the _general_ amplitude at any
>particular time (not following every peak-and-trough of the waveform).

I like these basic controls here Ken, but one reason why I keep harping on 
certain controls (which I think seem extremely useful and not too costly -- 
similar to the mixing inputs on the VCFs), is because they might be a bit 
more unusual than one might think. I have two EF about three feet from me 
right now, the one on the ARP 2600 has one control (an attenuator which seems 
to merely attenuate the input and control the amount of EF in that way), 
while the Serge EF (a Preamp/Envelope Follower module) has NO control on the 
EF portion at all (when the preamp is used as an input, the PA level control 
works the way the EF on the ARP does).

When I use my ARP EF, I usually run it through the Lag Processor first, then 
to a VCF or some similar thing. When I use my Serge EF, I usually run it into 
one of the DSG slope generators for different rise and fall rates and limited 
VC lag ability (much more useful than the ARP LP, but the MOTM looks to be a 
killer in this respect).

So, if some limited lag processing could be implemented on board the EF 
itself, it could save an 820 to be used elsewhere (or for more exotic EF 
patches).

>Finally, some of this is tapped off and fed to something like a Schmidtt
>(sp?) Trigger to produce a gate. (It's cool, by the way, when you can set
>the rise/fall thresholds here, because you can create a flexible gate
>delay/hold that way.)


Again, neither of mine have a gate out, and this seems like such an obvious 
addition to an EF. I REALLY like the idea of having separate rise and fall 
thresholds. Also, this portion of the module seems like a useful place for a 
Bradley LED.

I'm saying all this since so few people read my posts anymore, and we never 
get to submit features for future modules anymore, I'm hoping to start some 
kind of a wave of enthusiasm!
JB

At 08:39 PM 07/20/2000 EDT, jwbarlow@... wrote:
>Again, neither of mine have a gate out, and this seems like such an obvious 
>addition to an EF. I REALLY like the idea of having separate rise and fall 
>thresholds. Also, this portion of the module seems like a useful place for a 
>Bradley LED.

I guess this is the part where I speak up and add that I'm one of the few
people in the world who *really, really* likes the external signal
processor on the MS-20 (and finds its' pitch->CV converter perfectly
adequate for tracking a bass guitar).  Which has both a gate output and
LED's to indicate A) input signal clipping/peaking, and B) gate status.
For a MOTM Envelope Follower, I would really like to see those functions
with a Trigger output in addition to the Gate, where a trigger signal would
be generated every time a gate starts AND every time the input signal
amplitude has a positive-going crossing of the trigger threshold level,
which is set by a front panel knob whose 'zero' level is determined by the
gate threshold level knob.  Even better would be an additional hysteresis
knob that would set a threshold level above the gate threshold, but below
the trigger threshold, so that re-triggers would only occur if the input
signal amplitude had passed below the hysteresis threshold before
re-crossing the trigger threshold.

Hmm ... so with all that, we'd need knobs at least for:
1) Input amplitude (preamp)
2) Gate On (rise) threshold level
3) Gate Off (fall) threshold level (must be < Gate On level unless there's
also a setting for Gate hysteresis)
4) Re-Trigger threshold level (must be > Gate Off level)
5) Re-Trigger hysteresis level (must be > Gate On level, < Re-Trigger
threshold level)

Plus one or two LED's ...

>I'm saying all this since so few people read my posts anymore, and we never 
>get to submit features for future modules anymore, I'm hoping to start some 
>kind of a wave of enthusiasm!

Does that work for you?  (or, more importantly, does it make sense to you?)

	-Doug (who would love to buy a clone of the MS-20 ESP with V/Oct output
instead of V/Hz)
	 ceres@...

Maybe if the existing integrator portion was tweaked, it could offer some
lag; I'm not sure if it could do that without attenuating the signal too
much? Experimentation would be needed, I suspect.

I like the idea of the hysteresis controls. I would suggest that, if such
circuitry were to be added to an envelope follower, that a "direct input"
also be provided so that this hysteresis/gating section could be used
generally, not just by an envelope-followed audio source. I'm a huge fan of
gate delays, and strangely they aren't that common at all on synthesizers. I
don't even know if a VC gate delay has ever been made, but what a way to
animate---in a controlled way---every note in a phrase.


 -----Original Message-----
So, if some limited lag processing could be implemented on board the EF
itself, it could save an 820 to be used elsewhere (or for more exotic EF 
patches).

In a message dated 7/21/2000 5:31:53 AM, ken.tkacs@... writes:

>I'm a huge fan of
>gate delays, and strangely they aren't that common at all on synthesizers.
>I
>don't even know if a VC gate delay has ever been made, but what a way to
>animate---in a controlled way---every note in a phrase.

You probably know that the EMu VC Transient Generators were five stages with 
lag being the first stage. You are right in that I found the VC Lag stage to 
be the most useful. Moe???

I agree that a generalized VC gate delay circuit would be quite useful. Two 
(expensive) ways to build one while we wait:
1) 1/2 Serge DSG
2) MOTM 820 to comparator

JB

ken.tkacs@... writes:

>>I'm a huge fan of gate delays, and strangely they aren't that common at all 
on synthesizers. I don't even know if a VC gate delay has ever been made, but 
what a way to animate---in a controlled way---every note in a phrase.<<

That's why I am patiently awaiting the VC-DADSR.  I'd like to try controlling 
the Delay stage with a S/H value triggered on every note to give a less 
mechanical or more human feel to notes I sequence out of my Roland Micro 
Composer.

-Elhardt

> You probably know that the EMu VC Transient Generators were five
> stages with
> lag being the first stage. You are right in that I found the VC
> Lag stage to
> be the most useful. Moe???

Yep. They were voltage controllable with the addition of an extra front
panel, which provided space for 5 extra pots and jacks. This panel connected
to the TG of your choice with a ribbon cable behild the panel.

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

I'm thinking about building a module that would be a quad VC gate delays /
one shots. They are really just inversions of each other.

Also, I was scribbling around a couple of days ago, and came up with a
pretty simple quad input peak and trough circuit. I know Serge and Modcan
have them, but I'm not sure what practical use I'd have for one.

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: elhardt@... [mailto:elhardt@...]
> Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2000 8:32 AM
> To: motm@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [motm] Using a Lag an an Envelope Follower -- Not Quite
>
>
> ken.tkacs@... writes:
>
> >>I'm a huge fan of gate delays, and strangely they aren't that
> common at all
> on synthesizers. I don't even know if a VC gate delay has ever
> been made, but
> what a way to animate---in a controlled way---every note in a phrase.<<
>
> That's why I am patiently awaiting the VC-DADSR.  I'd like to try
> controlling
> the Delay stage with a S/H value triggered on every note to give a less
> mechanical or more human feel to notes I sequence out of my Roland Micro
> Composer.
>
> -Elhardt
>
>
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