OBERHEIM SYNTH

--- On Sun, 6/5/11, minh.n.tran@... <minh.n.tran@...> wrote:

From: minh.n.tran@... <minh.n.tran@gmail.com>
Subject: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R
To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 5, 2011, 8:25 PM

Hello Oberheimers!
I just purchased a Matrix 6R and have been enjoying the sounds and exploring the somewhat cumbersome programming, and will dive into the available software programmers next.

One thing that has me stumped is how to get the sustain pedal functionality working for the Matrix. I know Lever 2 is the correct input for this, and the manual even states that this would mostly commonly be used for this purpose, besides triggering and other capabilities. However, it hasn't been working for any of the patches that were already loaded on this synth and digging through the manual I can't find a way to do this. I am using a standard Yamaha sustain pedal, and have also attempted to plug the sustain pedal into my MIDI controller (Motif ES8), but this also doesn't manage to allow the matrix to sustain.

I can see Lever parameters in DCO and VCA/VCF but these pertain to enabling vibrato/bend modulation.

I can also route the Lever2 in the Matrix, but there is no way to route it to the Sustain on the Env2, which controls the VCA (I believe - this thing is deep!).

Any help would be appreciated! I did a search and found a discussion on Expression pedals but not sustain.

Thanks!
Minh

--- On Sun, 6/5/11, minh.n.tran@... <minh.n.tran@...> wrote:

From: minh.n.tran@... <minh.n.tran@...>
Subject: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R
To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 5, 2011, 8:25 PM

Hello Oberheimers!
I just purchased a Matrix 6R and have been enjoying the sounds and exploring the somewhat cumbersome programming, and will dive into the available software programmers next.

One thing that has me stumped is how to get the sustain pedal functionality working for the Matrix. I know Lever 2 is the correct input for this, and the manual even states that this would mostly commonly be used for this purpose, besides triggering and other capabilities. However, it hasn't been working for any of the patches that were already loaded on this synth and digging through the manual I can't find a way to do this. I am using a standard Yamaha sustain pedal, and have also attempted to plug the sustain pedal into my MIDI controller (Motif ES8), but this also doesn't manage to allow the matrix to sustain.

I can see Lever parameters in DCO and VCA/VCF but these pertain to enabling vibrato/bend modulation.

I can also route the Lever2 in the Matrix, but there is no way to route it to the Sustain on the Env2, which controls the VCA (I believe - this thing is deep!).

Any help would be appreciated! I did a search and found a discussion on Expression pedals but not sustain.

Thanks!
Minh

--- On Tue, 6/7/11, Minh Tran <minh.n.tran@...> wrote:

From: Minh Tran <minh.n.tran@...>

Subject: Re: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R

To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 4:47 AM

Thanks for the thorough and helpful response guys!

I had some time to mess with this afternoon but still have not been successful. On a simple patch with no other Matrix patching, I routed Pedal2 to Envelope2 Release and set the value to +63. This actually achieved the exact opposite effect I was seeking, in that the patch would sustain indefinitely until I stepped on the pedal, which would then trigger the release, although interesting, I would have to step on it a few times, each time making the sound quieter to fully silence the sound. Could it be that the Matrix6R is expecting a pedal with the reverse polarity from my Yamaha FC-4 sustain pedal?

Unfortunately, reversing these values (-63) did not achieve the sustain functionality I was hoping for - the sound would cuttoff abruptly after I stopped playing, or with the pedal depressed the envelope would go into the release as set by the Envelope2 Release.

The only other setting I can think of that could be effecting things is Patch Edit 29 VCA 2 MOD BY ENV 2, which I've maximixed to +63 and also experimented with other values.

All of the Envelopes Modes are Normal, and I have the sustain and release values for the ADSR at normal mid-range positive values.

Alen, you originally mentioned patching Pedal2 to Envelope1 Release, which I've tried without success - from what Ive read and understand, Envelope 1 is meant to control VCF (unless patched otherwise in the Matrix) - is there a reason you suggested this instead of Envelope 2 Release?

Any other ideas on how to get standard sustain behavior working would be appreciated! This thing sounds beautiful, but its usability will be severely limited without basic sustain capabilities.

Thanks again,
Minh

On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 6:54 AM, LarryS <vision1@...> wrote:

Em Tran,

There is no sustain on a Matrix 6r.

There is no volume on a Matrix 6r.

These are big reasons the M6r was such a poor seller. It's a total pain.

To obtain a sustain effect, like Alen, said, it has to be the result of a modulation patch.

Problem: the pedal can be applied to *anything*. So be certain of the routing.

Problem: anything ELSE can ALSO be applied to VCA release, so be be certain nothing else is taking over.

Problem: many patches have VCA/VCF modulations that cut the sound even before it reaches the final VCA. So the output VCA is merrily sustaining a zero output. Sustain was patched correctly, just not completely.

Most modern modules have 'hardwired' sustain pedals. More accurately, these are "freeze" pedals that simply hold the Note-Off command until Pedal = off. The Matrix 6r makes you work for it.

The same is true with volume. It must be patched to work. And it must be patched comprehensively and completely to work effectively for some patches. I ended up simply using an ErnieBall Volume pedal (and later a Morely) for all my live work to have fewer things to worry about.

I suggest doing all this on a computer based editor. I use a Mac and the Opcode abandonware for mine.

L.

From: oberheim@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oberheim@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Minh Tran
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 5:12 PM
To: oberheim@...m
Subject: Re: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R

Thanks for the amazingly quick reply Alen! I just tried what you suggested and it did not work however. I tried both Pedal 2 and Lever 2 as the source, and Release for all three different envelopes. Is there anywhere else in the Matrix programming that could be preventing me from getting sustain working?

Thanks again!
Minh

On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 2:37 PM, analogfreak2005 <analogfreak2005@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!
Well it considers patch...
For standard sustain you must go edit modulation matrix and connect pedal 2 as source with envelope 1 release as destination.... put some value on it!!!!

It works on mine M-6!!

Best regards!!

Alen

--- On Sun, 6/5/11, minh.n.tran@... <minh.n.tran@gmail.com> wrote:

From: minh.n.tran@... <minh.n.tran@...>
Subject: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R
To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 5, 2011, 8:25 PM

Hello Oberheimers!
I just purchased a Matrix 6R and have been enjoying the sounds and exploring the somewhat cumbersome programming, and will dive into the available software programmers next.

One thing that has me stumped is how to get the sustain pedal functionality working for the Matrix. I know Lever 2 is the correct input for this, and the manual even states that this would mostly commonly be used for this purpose, besides triggering and other capabilities. However, it hasn't been working for any of the patches that were already loaded on this synth and digging through the manual I can't find a way to do this. I am using a standard Yamaha sustain pedal, and have also attempted to plug the sustain pedal into my MIDI controller (Motif ES8), but this also doesn't manage to allow the matrix to sustain.

I can see Lever parameters in DCO and VCA/VCF but these pertain to enabling vibrato/bend modulation.

I can also route the Lever2 in the Matrix, but there is no way to route it to the Sustain on the Env2, which controls the VCA (I believe - this thing is deep!).

Any help would be appreciated! I did a search and found a discussion on Expression pedals but not sustain.

Thanks!
Minh

--- On Tue, 6/7/11, Minh Tran <minh.n.tran@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Minh Tran <minh.n.tran@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R

To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 4:47 AM

Thanks for the thorough and helpful response guys!

I had some time to mess with this afternoon but still have not been successful. On a simple patch with no other Matrix patching, I routed Pedal2 to Envelope2 Release and set the value to +63. This actually achieved the exact opposite effect I was seeking, in that the patch would sustain indefinitely until I stepped on the pedal, which would then trigger the release, although interesting, I would have to step on it a few times, each time making the sound quieter to fully silence the sound. Could it be that the Matrix6R is expecting a pedal with the reverse polarity from my Yamaha FC-4 sustain pedal?

Unfortunately, reversing these values (-63) did not achieve the sustain functionality I was hoping for - the sound would cuttoff abruptly after I stopped playing, or with the pedal depressed the envelope would go into the release as set by the Envelope2 Release.

The only other setting I can think of that could be effecting things is Patch Edit 29 VCA 2 MOD BY ENV 2, which I've maximixed to +63 and also experimented with other values.

All of the Envelopes Modes are Normal, and I have the sustain and release values for the ADSR at normal mid-range positive values.

Alen, you originally mentioned patching Pedal2 to Envelope1 Release, which I've tried without success - from what Ive read and understand, Envelope 1 is meant to control VCF (unless patched otherwise in the Matrix) - is there a reason you suggested this instead of Envelope 2 Release?

Any other ideas on how to get standard sustain behavior working would be appreciated! This thing sounds beautiful, but its usability will be severely limited without basic sustain capabilities.

Thanks again,
Minh

On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 6:54 AM, LarryS <vision1@southwind.net> wrote:

Em Tran,

There is no sustain on a Matrix 6r.

There is no volume on a Matrix 6r.

These are big reasons the M6r was such a poor seller. It's a total pain.

To obtain a sustain effect, like Alen, said, it has to be the result of a modulation patch.

Problem: the pedal can be applied to *anything*. So be certain of the routing.

Problem: anything ELSE can ALSO be applied to VCA release, so be be certain nothing else is taking over.

Problem: many patches have VCA/VCF modulations that cut the sound even before it reaches the final VCA. So the output VCA is merrily sustaining a zero output. Sustain was patched correctly, just not completely.

Most modern modules have 'hardwired' sustain pedals. More accurately, these are "freeze" pedals that simply hold the Note-Off command until Pedal = off. The Matrix 6r makes you work for it.

The same is true with volume. It must be patched to work. And it must be patched comprehensively and completely to work effectively for some patches. I ended up simply using an ErnieBall Volume pedal (and later a Morely) for all my live work to have fewer things to worry about.

I suggest doing all this on a computer based editor. I use a Mac and the Opcode abandonware for mine.

L.

From: oberheim@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oberheim@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Minh Tran
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 5:12 PM
To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R

Thanks for the amazingly quick reply Alen! I just tried what you suggested and it did not work however. I tried both Pedal 2 and Lever 2 as the source, and Release for all three different envelopes. Is there anywhere else in the Matrix programming that could be preventing me from getting sustain working?

Thanks again!
Minh

On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 2:37 PM, analogfreak2005 <analogfreak2005@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!
Well it considers patch...
For standard sustain you must go edit modulation matrix and connect pedal 2 as source with envelope 1 release as destination.... put some value on it!!!!

It works on mine M-6!!

Best regards!!

Alen

--- On Sun, 6/5/11, minh.n.tran@gmail.com <minh.n.tran@gmail.com> wrote:

From: minh.n.tran@gmail.com <minh.n.tran@gmail.com>
Subject: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R
To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 5, 2011, 8:25 PM

Hello Oberheimers!
I just purchased a Matrix 6R and have been enjoying the sounds and exploring the somewhat cumbersome programming, and will dive into the available software programmers next.

One thing that has me stumped is how to get the sustain pedal functionality working for the Matrix. I know Lever 2 is the correct input for this, and the manual even states that this would mostly commonly be used for this purpose, besides triggering and other capabilities. However, it hasn't been working for any of the patches that were already loaded on this synth and digging through the manual I can't find a way to do this. I am using a standard Yamaha sustain pedal, and have also attempted to plug the sustain pedal into my MIDI controller (Motif ES8), but this also doesn't manage to allow the matrix to sustain.

I can see Lever parameters in DCO and VCA/VCF but these pertain to enabling vibrato/bend modulation.

I can also route the Lever2 in the Matrix, but there is no way to route it to the Sustain on the Env2, which controls the VCA (I believe - this thing is deep!).

Any help would be appreciated! I did a search and found a discussion on Expression pedals but not sustain.

Thanks!
Minh

--- On Tue, 6/7/11, Minh Tran <minh.n.tran@...> wrote:

From: Minh Tran <minh.n.tran@...>

Subject: Re: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R

To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 4:47 AM

Thanks for the thorough and helpful response guys!

I had some time to mess with this afternoon but still have not been successful. On a simple patch with no other Matrix patching, I routed Pedal2 to Envelope2 Release and set the value to +63. This actually achieved the exact opposite effect I was seeking, in that the patch would sustain indefinitely until I stepped on the pedal, which would then trigger the release, although interesting, I would have to step on it a few times, each time making the sound quieter to fully silence the sound. Could it be that the Matrix6R is expecting a pedal with the reverse polarity from my Yamaha FC-4 sustain pedal?

Unfortunately, reversing these values (-63) did not achieve the sustain functionality I was hoping for - the sound would cuttoff abruptly after I stopped playing, or with the pedal depressed the envelope would go into the release as set by the Envelope2 Release.

The only other setting I can think of that could be effecting things is Patch Edit 29 VCA 2 MOD BY ENV 2, which I've maximixed to +63 and also experimented with other values.

All of the Envelopes Modes are Normal, and I have the sustain and release values for the ADSR at normal mid-range positive values.

Alen, you originally mentioned patching Pedal2 to Envelope1 Release, which I've tried without success - from what Ive read and understand, Envelope 1 is meant to control VCF (unless patched otherwise in the Matrix) - is there a reason you suggested this instead of Envelope 2 Release?

Any other ideas on how to get standard sustain behavior working would be appreciated! This thing sounds beautiful, but its usability will be severely limited without basic sustain capabilities.

Thanks again,
Minh

On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 6:54 AM, LarryS <vision1@...> wrote:

Em Tran,

There is no sustain on a Matrix 6r.

There is no volume on a Matrix 6r.

These are big reasons the M6r was such a poor seller. It's a total pain.

To obtain a sustain effect, like Alen, said, it has to be the result of a modulation patch.

Problem: the pedal can be applied to *anything*. So be certain of the routing.

Problem: anything ELSE can ALSO be applied to VCA release, so be be certain nothing else is taking over.

Problem: many patches have VCA/VCF modulations that cut the sound even before it reaches the final VCA. So the output VCA is merrily sustaining a zero output. Sustain was patched correctly, just not completely.

Most modern modules have 'hardwired' sustain pedals. More accurately, these are "freeze" pedals that simply hold the Note-Off command until Pedal = off. The Matrix 6r makes you work for it.

The same is true with volume. It must be patched to work. And it must be patched comprehensively and completely to work effectively for some patches. I ended up simply using an ErnieBall Volume pedal (and later a Morely) for all my live work to have fewer things to worry about.

I suggest doing all this on a computer based editor. I use a Mac and the Opcode abandonware for mine.

L.

From: oberheim@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oberheim@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Minh Tran
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 5:12 PM
To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R

Thanks for the amazingly quick reply Alen! I just tried what you suggested and it did not work however. I tried both Pedal 2 and Lever 2 as the source, and Release for all three different envelopes. Is there anywhere else in the Matrix programming that could be preventing me from getting sustain working?

Thanks again!
Minh

On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 2:37 PM, analogfreak2005 <analogfreak2005@...> wrote:

Hi!
Well it considers patch...
For standard sustain you must go edit modulation matrix and connect pedal 2 as source with envelope 1 release as destination.... put some value on it!!!!

It works on mine M-6!!

Best regards!!

Alen

--- On Sun, 6/5/11, minh.n.tran@... <minh.n.tran@...> wrote:

From: minh.n.tran@... <minh.n.tran@...>
Subject: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R
To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 5, 2011, 8:25 PM

Hello Oberheimers!
I just purchased a Matrix 6R and have been enjoying the sounds and exploring the somewhat cumbersome programming, and will dive into the available software programmers next.

One thing that has me stumped is how to get the sustain pedal functionality working for the Matrix. I know Lever 2 is the correct input for this, and the manual even states that this would mostly commonly be used for this purpose, besides triggering and other capabilities. However, it hasn't been working for any of the patches that were already loaded on this synth and digging through the manual I can't find a way to do this. I am using a standard Yamaha sustain pedal, and have also attempted to plug the sustain pedal into my MIDI controller (Motif ES8), but this also doesn't manage to allow the matrix to sustain.

I can see Lever parameters in DCO and VCA/VCF but these pertain to enabling vibrato/bend modulation.

I can also route the Lever2 in the Matrix, but there is no way to route it to the Sustain on the Env2, which controls the VCA (I believe - this thing is deep!).

Any help would be appreciated! I did a search and found a discussion on Expression pedals but not sustain.

Thanks!
Minh

From: oberheim@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oberheim@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Minh Tran

Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 12:01 PM

To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R

Thanks for the document Charlie! This is definitely something they should have included in the Matrix 6 manuals as well!

That being said, it already covered what has been discussed in this thread - namely, routing Pedal 2 to the release of both the VCF and VCA2 Envelopes - which I've tried without success. Also no luck with MIDI CC 64 for remotely enabling sustain.

One clue might be that I do achieve the damper pedal effect they mention - however this occurs when I set the values positively for the Patching (+63) - unfortunately, reversing the values does not have the opposite effect I was hoping for. If I have the right cables/adapters lying around, I am going to try and reverse the polarity of my sustain pedal - although I tried another one I had (Roland) and it had the same result - so I'd be surprised if Oberheim was expecting a different standard (and a Atmospherics indicated, most synths should sense and reverse this polarity as necessary anyway).

Any other thoughts on anything else in the modulation/synthesis chain for Matrix that could be preventing sustain functionality? Has anyone had any luck getting MIDI CC 64 (or any other CC via Pedal Select) to sustain the Matrix?

Thanks,
Minh

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 2:24 AM, Charles Massey <cmassey@...> wrote:

I was given this Matrix 12 book by Bert who wrote it for Oberheim. I ran into him at NAMM in Chicago back in the 80's and told him about the volume/Sustain situation. This was not in the original owners manual for the Xpander but it works on the 6R just fine.

Now for the bad news: As I recall, you have to take a day and set it for each patch that you want to use………

Sorry for the inverted scans but haven't been to bed yet…….

Charlie

On Jun 7, 2011, at 4:07 PM, atmospherics4@gmail.com wrote:

I use a pair of M6rs in my wearable rig and have had similar problems with volume and sustain.
I can tell you that high-end controllers will sense the polarity if the pedals are plugged in before startup, as is the case with my Kurz Midiboard.......but with my wearable instrument, the controllers for volume have never worked.....my tech and I have tried all we know to no avail.....a note.....I am controlling from midi controllers and not from the rear panel jacks of the M6rs......make sure you have local control set appropriately.
Hope ths helps....derrick

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

From: Minh Tran <minh.n.tran@...>

Sender: oberheim@yahoogroups.com

Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 12:29:51 -0700

To: <oberheim@yahoogroups.com>

ReplyTo: oberheim@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R

Thanks for the help Alen,

Still no luck unfortunately. The settings you suggested achieved the same effect I have been experiencing - the patch sustains indefinitely, and then stops as soon as I press the pedal - essentially the opposite of what I want. I can work with this but it's definitely not ideal - I am really thinking of trying to reverse the polarity of the pedal to see if that gets things working. I mean is there an official standard for Sustain Pedals?

I appreciate your generous offer to add sustain to my patches, I may take you up on this but I really need a long-term solution to be enable this myself somehow.

Any other helpful thoughts would be appreciated - do regular Matrix and Matrix-1000 owners run into this issue??

Thanks,
Minh

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 1:24 AM, analogfreak2005 <analogfreak2005@...> wrote:

Hi Minh!!
It again depends; if the value of release E2 is high already in PATCH EDIT than there is no need to route it in MOD MTRX, and other way around..
Try route pedal2 with both releases on E1 and E2 (that is 2 seperate MOD MTRX), put value on let's say 60 on both and I'm sure you'll get your sustain effect.... If that doesn't work, please send me any sound in syx form or ob6 form and I'll send it back to you sustainable!!!!
I never thought it is such an issue with M6R??

Best regards!!

Alen

--- On Tue, 6/7/11, Minh Tran <minh.n.tran@...> wrote:

From: Minh Tran <minh.n.tran@...>

Subject: Re: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R

To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 4:47 AM

Thanks for the thorough and helpful response guys!

I had some time to mess with this afternoon but still have not been successful. On a simple patch with no other Matrix patching, I routed Pedal2 to Envelope2 Release and set the value to +63. This actually achieved the exact opposite effect I was seeking, in that the patch would sustain indefinitely until I stepped on the pedal, which would then trigger the release, although interesting, I would have to step on it a few times, each time making the sound quieter to fully silence the sound. Could it be that the Matrix6R is expecting a pedal with the reverse polarity from my Yamaha FC-4 sustain pedal?

Unfortunately, reversing these values (-63) did not achieve the sustain functionality I was hoping for - the sound would cuttoff abruptly after I stopped playing, or with the pedal depressed the envelope would go into the release as set by the Envelope2 Release.

The only other setting I can think of that could be effecting things is Patch Edit 29 VCA 2 MOD BY ENV 2, which I've maximixed to +63 and also experimented with other values.

All of the Envelopes Modes are Normal, and I have the sustain and release values for the ADSR at normal mid-range positive values.

Alen, you originally mentioned patching Pedal2 to Envelope1 Release, which I've tried without success - from what Ive read and understand, Envelope 1 is meant to control VCF (unless patched otherwise in the Matrix) - is there a reason you suggested this instead of Envelope 2 Release?

Any other ideas on how to get standard sustain behavior working would be appreciated! This thing sounds beautiful, but its usability will be severely limited without basic sustain capabilities.

Thanks again,
Minh

On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 6:54 AM, LarryS <vision1@southwind.net> wrote:

Em Tran,

There is no sustain on a Matrix 6r.

There is no volume on a Matrix 6r.

These are big reasons the M6r was such a poor seller. It's a total pain.

To obtain a sustain effect, like Alen, said, it has to be the result of a modulation patch.

Problem: the pedal can be applied to *anything*. So be certain of the routing.

Problem: anything ELSE can ALSO be applied to VCA release, so be be certain nothing else is taking over.

Problem: many patches have VCA/VCF modulations that cut the sound even before it reaches the final VCA. So the output VCA is merrily sustaining a zero output. Sustain was patched correctly, just not completely.

Most modern modules have 'hardwired' sustain pedals. More accurately, these are "freeze" pedals that simply hold the Note-Off command until Pedal = off. The Matrix 6r makes you work for it.

The same is true with volume. It must be patched to work. And it must be patched comprehensively and completely to work effectively for some patches. I ended up simply using an ErnieBall Volume pedal (and later a Morely) for all my live work to have fewer things to worry about.

I suggest doing all this on a computer based editor. I use a Mac and the Opcode abandonware for mine.

L.

From: oberheim@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oberheim@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Minh Tran
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 5:12 PM
To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R

Thanks for the amazingly quick reply Alen! I just tried what you suggested and it did not work however. I tried both Pedal 2 and Lever 2 as the source, and Release for all three different envelopes. Is there anywhere else in the Matrix programming that could be preventing me from getting sustain working?

Thanks again!
Minh

On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 2:37 PM, analogfreak2005 <analogfreak2005@...> wrote:

Hi!
Well it considers patch...
For standard sustain you must go edit modulation matrix and connect pedal 2 as source with envelope 1 release as destination.... put some value on it!!!!

It works on mine M-6!!

Best regards!!

Alen

--- On Sun, 6/5/11, minh.n.tran@... <minh.n.tran@...> wrote:

From: minh.n.tran@... <minh.n.tran@...>
Subject: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R
To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 5, 2011, 8:25 PM

Hello Oberheimers!
I just purchased a Matrix 6R and have been enjoying the sounds and exploring the somewhat cumbersome programming, and will dive into the available software programmers next.

One thing that has me stumped is how to get the sustain pedal functionality working for the Matrix. I know Lever 2 is the correct input for this, and the manual even states that this would mostly commonly be used for this purpose, besides triggering and other capabilities. However, it hasn't been working for any of the patches that were already loaded on this synth and digging through the manual I can't find a way to do this. I am using a standard Yamaha sustain pedal, and have also attempted to plug the sustain pedal into my MIDI controller (Motif ES8), but this also doesn't manage to allow the matrix to sustain.

I can see Lever parameters in DCO and VCA/VCF but these pertain to enabling vibrato/bend modulation.

I can also route the Lever2 in the Matrix, but there is no way to route it to the Sustain on the Env2, which controls the VCA (I believe - this thing is deep!).

Any help would be appreciated! I did a search and found a discussion on Expression pedals but not sustain.

Thanks!
Minh

From: oberheim@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oberheim@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Minh Tran

Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 12:01 PM

To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R

Thanks for the document Charlie! This is definitely something they should have included in the Matrix 6 manuals as well!

That being said, it already covered what has been discussed in this thread - namely, routing Pedal 2 to the release of both the VCF and VCA2 Envelopes - which I've tried without success. Also no luck with MIDI CC 64 for remotely enabling sustain.

One clue might be that I do achieve the damper pedal effect they mention - however this occurs when I set the values positively for the Patching (+63) - unfortunately, reversing the values does not have the opposite effect I was hoping for. If I have the right cables/adapters lying around, I am going to try and reverse the polarity of my sustain pedal - although I tried another one I had (Roland) and it had the same result - so I'd be surprised if Oberheim was expecting a different standard (and a Atmospherics indicated, most synths should sense and reverse this polarity as necessary anyway).

Any other thoughts on anything else in the modulation/synthesis chain for Matrix that could be preventing sustain functionality? Has anyone had any luck getting MIDI CC 64 (or any other CC via Pedal Select) to sustain the Matrix?

Thanks,
Minh

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 2:24 AM, Charles Massey <cmassey@...> wrote:

I was given this Matrix 12 book by Bert who wrote it for Oberheim. I ran into him at NAMM in Chicago back in the 80's and told him about the volume/Sustain situation. This was not in the original owners manual for the Xpander but it works on the 6R just fine.

Now for the bad news: As I recall, you have to take a day and set it for each patch that you want to use………

Sorry for the inverted scans but haven't been to bed yet…….

Charlie

On Jun 7, 2011, at 4:07 PM, atmospherics4@... wrote:

I use a pair of M6rs in my wearable rig and have had similar problems with volume and sustain.
I can tell you that high-end controllers will sense the polarity if the pedals are plugged in before startup, as is the case with my Kurz Midiboard.......but with my wearable instrument, the controllers for volume have never worked.....my tech and I have tried all we know to no avail.....a note.....I am controlling from midi controllers and not from the rear panel jacks of the M6rs......make sure you have local control set appropriately.
Hope ths helps....derrick

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

From: Minh Tran <minh.n.tran@...>

Sender: oberheim@yahoogroups.com

Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 12:29:51 -0700

To: <oberheim@yahoogroups.com>

ReplyTo: oberheim@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R

Thanks for the help Alen,

Still no luck unfortunately. The settings you suggested achieved the same effect I have been experiencing - the patch sustains indefinitely, and then stops as soon as I press the pedal - essentially the opposite of what I want. I can work with this but it's definitely not ideal - I am really thinking of trying to reverse the polarity of the pedal to see if that gets things working. I mean is there an official standard for Sustain Pedals?

I appreciate your generous offer to add sustain to my patches, I may take you up on this but I really need a long-term solution to be enable this myself somehow.

Any other helpful thoughts would be appreciated - do regular Matrix and Matrix-1000 owners run into this issue??

Thanks,
Minh

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 1:24 AM, analogfreak2005 <analogfreak2005@...> wrote:

Hi Minh!!
It again depends; if the value of release E2 is high already in PATCH EDIT than there is no need to route it in MOD MTRX, and other way around..
Try route pedal2 with both releases on E1 and E2 (that is 2 seperate MOD MTRX), put value on let's say 60 on both and I'm sure you'll get your sustain effect.... If that doesn't work, please send me any sound in syx form or ob6 form and I'll send it back to you sustainable!!!!
I never thought it is such an issue with M6R??

Best regards!!

Alen

--- On Tue, 6/7/11, Minh Tran <minh.n.tran@...> wrote:

From: Minh Tran <minh.n.tran@...>

Subject: Re: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R

To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 4:47 AM

Thanks for the thorough and helpful response guys!

I had some time to mess with this afternoon but still have not been successful. On a simple patch with no other Matrix patching, I routed Pedal2 to Envelope2 Release and set the value to +63. This actually achieved the exact opposite effect I was seeking, in that the patch would sustain indefinitely until I stepped on the pedal, which would then trigger the release, although interesting, I would have to step on it a few times, each time making the sound quieter to fully silence the sound. Could it be that the Matrix6R is expecting a pedal with the reverse polarity from my Yamaha FC-4 sustain pedal?

Unfortunately, reversing these values (-63) did not achieve the sustain functionality I was hoping for - the sound would cuttoff abruptly after I stopped playing, or with the pedal depressed the envelope would go into the release as set by the Envelope2 Release.

The only other setting I can think of that could be effecting things is Patch Edit 29 VCA 2 MOD BY ENV 2, which I've maximixed to +63 and also experimented with other values.

All of the Envelopes Modes are Normal, and I have the sustain and release values for the ADSR at normal mid-range positive values.

Alen, you originally mentioned patching Pedal2 to Envelope1 Release, which I've tried without success - from what Ive read and understand, Envelope 1 is meant to control VCF (unless patched otherwise in the Matrix) - is there a reason you suggested this instead of Envelope 2 Release?

Any other ideas on how to get standard sustain behavior working would be appreciated! This thing sounds beautiful, but its usability will be severely limited without basic sustain capabilities.

Thanks again,
Minh

On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 6:54 AM, LarryS <vision1@...> wrote:

Em Tran,

There is no sustain on a Matrix 6r.

There is no volume on a Matrix 6r.

These are big reasons the M6r was such a poor seller. It's a total pain.

To obtain a sustain effect, like Alen, said, it has to be the result of a modulation patch.

Problem: the pedal can be applied to *anything*. So be certain of the routing.

Problem: anything ELSE can ALSO be applied to VCA release, so be be certain nothing else is taking over.

Problem: many patches have VCA/VCF modulations that cut the sound even before it reaches the final VCA. So the output VCA is merrily sustaining a zero output. Sustain was patched correctly, just not completely.

Most modern modules have 'hardwired' sustain pedals. More accurately, these are "freeze" pedals that simply hold the Note-Off command until Pedal = off. The Matrix 6r makes you work for it.

The same is true with volume. It must be patched to work. And it must be patched comprehensively and completely to work effectively for some patches. I ended up simply using an ErnieBall Volume pedal (and later a Morely) for all my live work to have fewer things to worry about.

I suggest doing all this on a computer based editor. I use a Mac and the Opcode abandonware for mine.

L.

From: oberheim@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oberheim@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Minh Tran
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 5:12 PM
To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R

Thanks for the amazingly quick reply Alen! I just tried what you suggested and it did not work however. I tried both Pedal 2 and Lever 2 as the source, and Release for all three different envelopes. Is there anywhere else in the Matrix programming that could be preventing me from getting sustain working?

Thanks again!
Minh

On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 2:37 PM, analogfreak2005 <analogfreak2005@...> wrote:

Hi!
Well it considers patch...
For standard sustain you must go edit modulation matrix and connect pedal 2 as source with envelope 1 release as destination.... put some value on it!!!!

It works on mine M-6!!

Best regards!!

Alen

--- On Sun, 6/5/11, minh.n.tran@... <minh.n.tran@...>; wrote:

From: minh.n.tran@... <minh.n.tran@...>
Subject: [oberheim] Using Sustain Pedal for Matrix 6R
To: oberheim@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 5, 2011, 8:25 PM

Hello Oberheimers!
I just purchased a Matrix 6R and have been enjoying the sounds and exploring the somewhat cumbersome programming, and will dive into the available software programmers next.

One thing that has me stumped is how to get the sustain pedal functionality working for the Matrix. I know Lever 2 is the correct input for this, and the manual even states that this would mostly commonly be used for this purpose, besides triggering and other capabilities. However, it hasn't been working for any of the patches that were already loaded on this synth and digging through the manual I can't find a way to do this. I am using a standard Yamaha sustain pedal, and have also attempted to plug the sustain pedal into my MIDI controller (Motif ES8), but this also doesn't manage to allow the matrix to sustain.

I can see Lever parameters in DCO and VCA/VCF but these pertain to enabling vibrato/bend modulation.

I can also route the Lever2 in the Matrix, but there is no way to route it to the Sustain on the Env2, which controls the VCA (I believe - this thing is deep!).

Any help would be appreciated! I did a search and found a discussion on Expression pedals but not sustain.

Thanks!
Minh

Good!