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Vintage Synth Repair

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Thanks for the welcome group

Thanks for the welcome group

2010-07-28 by jabathaslut

Hi, just a quick thanks to all for the kind welcome. As to my collection of stuff, it's on the "to do list" (umm has been for as long as I can remember..lol)I will try and create a list of what I have and stuff I haven't converted to digital documentation I will try and get to over time. I will keep an eye on the group and when I can help I'll do my best to do what I can.

I can agree with the comments about the value old gear can attract. In my case I had (back in the early/mid 80's) a collection of gear which cost me around 40 grand. As timing would have it, I was busy with work, settling down and saving to build a house. I decided to off load most of it (now I seriously regret that decision) and due to the fact FM (DX7 etc), sampling and early digital synth hybrids were all the rage the old analogue stuff was poorly valued. I think in total the 40 grand equated to a resale value of about $5000.. eeek

The problem nowadays is that for quite a while the old gear was stashed away or dumped. Young music makers were (are) growing up in a throw away society and as such they don't often think of a piece of gear having an emotional or historic value. There is a lot of good new gear available that uses DSP to provide a close emulation of the old analogue kit but I have yet to find any that capture the sound of
"real" analogue with all it's intrinsic unique ability and inadequacies. No two "discrete" analogue synths sound the same. You can put 2 or 3 early Minimoogs or ARP's side by side on the bench, set the parameters the same, yet they will each have their own slight differences in sound. 

This to some extent was changed with the advent of synth chipsets available from the likes of SSM and Curtis but this has lead to another difficult issue. Yes it is true that these chips allowed for some excellent poly synths at a low (ish) price but it also meant that same gear was doomed to the dumpster at some stage. That stage is really near. The chips used are long out of production, few NOS(new old stock)are available and those that are have prices which far outway their initial cost. This means that more and more repairable gear is being gutted and sold off part by part through the likes of ebay (often at grossly inflated value)simply to keep other better maintained gear working. Sad but unavoidable.

Lastly a situation that makes my blood boil are the people (mostly again young) who through their upbringing in the "throw away society" take a perfectly good piece of gear, hack it and bash it beyond recognition for the sake of "circuit bending". Fine take a ten buck toy and thrash the guts out of it, but not old analogue gear!! I've read up on most of the websites relating to these endeavors and it's
my point of view that the vast majority of ppl into it no zero about the electronic's they are dealing with. They tend to use a poke it and see mentality which may work some of the time. I shudder at the thought the damage being done to some much good gear. Not only at the circuit level but to the hardware (casing, front panel etc) as they hack away.

Thats enuff of my little rant. I'll start getting hot under the collar soon..lol

I'll open it up to u guys for discussion

Cheers 

Richard

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Thanks for the welcome group

2010-07-28 by PeWe


Hi Richard !

>>>

Am 28.07.2010 08:31, schrieb jabathaslut:
Show quoted textHide quoted text

Hi, just a quick thanks to all for the kind welcome. As to my collection of stuff, it's on the "to do list" (umm has been for as long as I can remember..lol)I will try and create a list of what I have and stuff I haven't converted to digital documentation I will try and get to over time. I will keep an eye on the group and when I can help I'll do my best to do what I can.


Well, that sounds great,-
1st question: Do you probably have a Akai S-1100 service manual ?
2nd one: Do you probably know the original manufacturer of the switches in a Oberheim XK mastereyboard ?


I can agree with the comments about the value old gear can attract. In my case I had (back in the early/mid 80's) a collection of gear which cost me around 40 grand. As timing would have it, I was busy with work, settling down and saving to build a house. I decided to off load most of it (now I seriously regret that decision) and due to the fact FM (DX7 etc), sampling and early digital synth hybrids were all the rage the old analogue stuff was poorly valued. I think in total the 40 grand equated to a resale value of about $5000.. eeek


I think, here are many in the group w/ a similar story, settling down and/or building a house or not.
In any case, we were really busy w/ music in the late 70th, the 80th and 90th and made good money in the music biz,- so all that gear wasn´t a collection only but real tools necessary for the work.

It´s true, FM, sampling, digital synth hybrids and rompler-workstations rendered the old analogue stuff nearly useless for pro music production and touring, but it´s also true, these technologies opened new doors for music production even they didn´t replace the old ones.
IMO, the "digital is better" argument was a marketing trick of the manufacturers of gear and their interest was to produce cheaper for a mass market of hobbyists and being able to sell at a lower price,- a economic decision which made some companys survive up today.

My experience is, the real pros used all available ever if they could afford the gear and if it made economical sense.
In the days we were busy working in pro studios and being hired by producers and/ or record companies, we had to have the latest up to date gear to offer the best sound palette they expected and we had to work fast in a studio, not tweaking patches or programming from scratch for the studios rental fee per hour the producer had to pay.
So, a better and better preset management, midi and midi multi mode for quick layering and digital controlled tuning routines for polyphonic analogue synths were a big step forward.

FM is a form of synthesis I like very much and it´s a great combination together w/ real analogue synths and when the Yamaha system came out, TX-816, QX-1 and KX88 / KX76 controller keyboards,- that was a great professional combo to work w/ for years and I have it in working condition and use it up to now,- except the QX-1 which is and was replaced by the various small computers later, Commodore SX, Atari and at least a fully fletched DAW hardware and software.

The Synclavier was a real good FM machine too incl. sampling and definitely not made for the consumer market.

Sampling,- well,- when the 1st machines entered the commercial market, I wasn´t impressed that much.
I remember demoing the Ensoniq Mirage keyboard @ Frankfurt Musik Messe when it came out and it drove me nuts.
I got one for free but sold it at the door when the fair finished.
The EMU EII was too expensive for me and I wasn´t impressed by the loading times and the sampling time at all,- but I lost jobs because I didn´t own one.
But when Akai released the S-1100 w/ 32MB memory and AES/EBU and SPDIF connections as well as SMPTE sync and a FX board as also dedicated Burr-Brown converters for each single out, that was a piece of gear which had advantages for me and was affordable.
When Tom Oberheim came up w/ the DPX-1 and the single out option, I suddenly could use the EII , the Mirage and Prophet 2000 libraries w/ a machine for the fraction of the price of a EII,- hallelujah !

We would have never seen a DAW without the pioneers of sampling technology like EMU and Fairlight and I´m sure they never had in mind to make other technologies obsolete in 1st place.


The problem nowadays is that for quite a while the old gear was stashed away or dumped. Young music makers were (are) growing up in a throw away society and as such they don't often think of a piece of gear having an emotional or historic value.


Why should they think different in societies like todays where ideas and produced music is downloadable for free in the web. They don´t even think of the possibility making their livin w/ music. There are exceptions, but these are rare. The golden times are definitely over and most musos I know today have a day over job to make their living and make music just for fun more or less.
These guys who know really about the emotional and historic value are now collectors in most cases.

All this is not a fault of the users or the manufacturers of gear alone,- it´s mainly a fault of the commerciall music industry who faked the customers w/ "digital is better" when they came up w/ the CD, re-selling all their back catalogues content again for a higher price and they tried it again w/ the DVD standard.
In addition, they failed w/ protecting digital media and this, in combination w/ sampling technology, rendered visual and audio material into a cheap mass consumer market product,- far from being arts and culture.
Also goernments failed in overhauling authors rights and royalties to match todays ways of distribution.

Sampling made it possible to open the doors to the pro music biz for DJs.
Somewhere in the mid 80th, I´ve read a story in a magazine about 2 guys, both DJs, who wanted "to replace the popstars",- and they did.
Owning a sampler and a computer for MIDI was all they needed to record slices from records and some noizes to do a remix compilation which they called "dance".
Very welcome for the record industry which now got a complete album for 1000 bucks.
Just only doing a collage by triggering events isn´t the same than composing, arranging, recording, mixing and mastering,- culture wise, I´d say,- it´s the same difference than painting a picture or doing a collage.

But the public accepted the results and buyed /used ´em,- so who to blame ?

There is a lot of good new gear available that uses DSP to provide a close emulation of the old analogue kit but I have yet to find any that capture the sound of
"real" analogue with all it's intrinsic unique ability and inadequacies.


Yes and no. It´s right it´s not exactly the same but who cares ? The audience / consumer ? No.
The consumer is very satisfied w/ the results of VST stuff running on a computer host and being rendered and mastered,- that´s why many, many producers sold all their hardware and some are using a Mac and Logic only and make real good money,- I know ´em in person and some are old friends.
It´s just only a biz, they do what the market wants and get payed for that,- means: It works.

I´m not that type of guy and I´m using all,- old analogue gear, FM, sampling, VST stuff and virtual gear running on DSPs.
I have to mention, Creamware/Sonic Core SCOPE to me gives the best results synth wise and paired w/ total recall.
Minimax, Prodyssey, Protone (or ProOne), Profit an U Know 7 are great analogue emulations running on DSPs and the Zarg stuff by J.Bowen for SCOPE is the ice of the cake even it´s not the best optimized software for SCOPE.
In a side by side comparison of p.ex. Minimax and a Minimoog D, you´ll recognize small differences, but these are also present if you compare 2 Minimoog D.

In a mix of music, anyone will accept a Minimax as a Minimoog D if he doesn´t know it´s a Minimax.

It´s harder to find a good Oberheim emulation because there´s only the VST by Studioprojects,- the OPX Pro (which I own too).
I own the Xpander and Matrix-1000,- OPX (Pro) is a total recall replacement for the OBX, OBXa and OB-8, but not for the modulation matrix machines.
I never owned a real OBX, so I´m sure the real thing sounds different, maybe "better",- but also lacks a lot of features todays software offers if coded right.

No two "discrete" analogue synths sound the same. You can put 2 or 3 early Minimoogs or ARP's side by side on the bench, set the parameters the same, yet they will each have their own slight differences in sound.


See above.


This to some extent was changed with the advent of synth chipsets available from the likes of SSM and Curtis but this has lead to another difficult issue. Yes it is true that these chips allowed for some excellent poly synths at a low (ish) price but it also meant that same gear was doomed to the dumpster at some stage. That stage is really near. The chips used are long out of production, few NOS(new old stock)are available and those that are have prices which far outway their initial cost.


Up to now, sooner or later, I´ve found all the parts needed to keep my old stuff working and I doubt that will change very early.
In deed, there´s a investment of time and money to keep the gear working, but there´s also a reason to do for me.
So, if I need a part urgently, I pay for it to get it and don´t discuss about the former initial costs.
When I buyed the synths new in the past, these were also not cheap and I used ´em to make money.
The last CEM 3374 I buyed NOS some weeks ago was USD 85.-,- it´s so rare I payed it before another one did.

This means that more and more repairable gear is being gutted and sold off part by part through the likes of ebay (often at grossly inflated value)simply to keep other better maintained gear working. Sad but unavoidable.


Hmmm,- there are 2 sides of the coin and one side is,- that way I´m able to buy working parts to keep my machines alive.


Lastly a situation that makes my blood boil are the people (mostly again young) who through their upbringing in the "throw away society" take a perfectly good piece of gear, hack it and bash it beyond recognition for the sake of "circuit bending". Fine take a ten buck toy and thrash the guts out of it, but not old analogue gear!! I've read up on most of the websites relating to these endeavors and it's
my point of view that the vast majority of ppl into it no zero about the electronic's they are dealing with. They tend to use a poke it and see mentality which may work some of the time. I shudder at the thought the damage being done to some much good gear. Not only at the circuit level but to the hardware (casing, front panel etc) as they hack away.


Simply put, life changes.
These guys own the gear and they can do with it what they want,- even throw it in the bin.
I´ve seen one guy throwing a Minimoog D in the bin because he hated it,- that was in the early 80th and when I had 3.
The guy is a musician and a tech, did repairs in pro music shops in the past,- and today he owns a studio for avantgarde music, a label, is organizing festivals and plays in one of the most famous electronic "Kraut" bands since the late 60th up today.
He´s definitely making his living w/ music only.

PeWe

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Thanks for the welcome group

2010-07-28 by GB

Lastly a situation that makes my blood boil are the people (mostly again 
young) who through their upbringing in the "throw away society" take a 
perfectly good piece of gear, hack it and bash it beyond recognition for the 
sake of "circuit bending". Fine take a ten buck toy and thrash the guts out 
of it, but not old analogue gear!! I've read up on most of the websites 
relating to these endeavors and it's
my point of view that the vast majority of ppl into it no zero about the 
electronic's they are dealing with. They tend to use a poke it and see 
mentality which may work some of the time. I shudder at the thought the 
damage being done to some much good gear. Not only at the circuit level but 
to the hardware (casing, front panel etc) as they hack away.

------------

Totally agree with this. In some cases the "kids" may then take an interest 
in electronics, but so much gear gets totally trashed this way.

GB

Re: Thanks for the welcome group

2010-07-28 by jabathaslut

PeWe

Off hand I don't know who the switch manufacturer was. If you know the part number I can probably look it up. I have a some Akai info, I'll see if I have what u are after.

I agree with your comments. Technology advances and the gear available today is all pretty amazing (compared to the old gear) I have a 26 DSP creamware setup myself and if I had to say what softsynths I like the best it would certainly include most of the Creamware (and 3rd party) gear. I guess personal opinions are tainted with age. Much like some ppl will argue till they're blue in the face that the old 1970's car they have in the shed will always be better than anything currently available. Memories of days gone by can sometimes "emotionally cloud" ones opinions.

I think in my case, I come from a time when a piece of kit cost an arm and a leg AND the choice of products available was far smaller than is available to ppl today. Today, it's so easy (and relatively cheap) to acquire gear that does so much. Yes it's also true you can now produce really great stuff with nothing more than a PC and a bit of software. I think the difference being that in the earlier years I found myself having to get quite "intimate knowledge" of each piece of kit I owned to get the sort of sounds I wanted. Today I can think of a sound, load up a few softies and usually find a preset close to what I'm after. It's a case of moving with the times. 

I think a good example of the "moving with times" scenario for me is
Kraftwerk. I have seen their show a number of times over the years, the first, way back when klingklang was a few truck loads of racked
gear. Last time I saw them it was 4 guys with laptops and a few midi controllers. What was better? Neither they both sounded great.

I guess I find it sad the gear that brought me so much joy over the years is slowly disappearing. As they say "such is life" =)



--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, PeWe <ha-pewe@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> 
> Hi Richard !
> 
>  >>>
> 
> Am 28.07.2010 08:31, schrieb jabathaslut:
> >
> > Hi, just a quick thanks to all for the kind welcome. As to my 
> > collection of stuff, it's on the "to do list" (umm has been for as 
> > long as I can remember..lol)I will try and create a list of what I 
> > have and stuff I haven't converted to digital documentation I will try 
> > and get to over time. I will keep an eye on the group and when I can 
> > help I'll do my best to do what I can.
> >
> 
> Well, that sounds great,-
> 1st question: Do you probably have a Akai S-1100 service manual ?
> 2nd one: Do you probably know the original manufacturer of the switches 
> in a Oberheim XK mastereyboard ?
> 
> >
> > I can agree with the comments about the value old gear can attract. In 
> > my case I had (back in the early/mid 80's) a collection of gear which 
> > cost me around 40 grand. As timing would have it, I was busy with 
> > work, settling down and saving to build a house. I decided to off load 
> > most of it (now I seriously regret that decision) and due to the fact 
> > FM (DX7 etc), sampling and early digital synth hybrids were all the 
> > rage the old analogue stuff was poorly valued. I think in total the 40 
> > grand equated to a resale value of about $5000.. eeek
> >
> 
> I think, here are many in the group w/ a similar story, settling down 
> and/or building a house or not.
> In any case, we were really busy w/ music in the late 70th, the 80th and 
> 90th and made good money in the music biz,- so all that gear wasn´t a 
> collection only but real tools necessary for the work.
> 
> It´s true, FM, sampling, digital synth hybrids and rompler-workstations 
> rendered the old analogue stuff nearly useless for pro music production 
> and touring, but it´s also true, these technologies opened new doors for 
> music production even they didn´t replace the old ones.
> IMO, the "digital is better" argument was a marketing trick of the 
> manufacturers of gear and their interest was to produce cheaper for a 
> mass market of hobbyists and being able to sell at a lower price,- a 
> economic decision which made some companys survive up today.
> 
> My experience is, the real pros used all available ever if they could 
> afford the gear and if it made economical sense.
> In the days we were busy working in pro studios and being hired by 
> producers and/ or record companies, we had to have the latest up to date 
> gear to offer the best sound palette they expected and we had to work 
> fast in a studio, not tweaking patches or programming from scratch for 
> the studios rental fee per hour the producer had to pay.
> So, a better and better preset management, midi and midi multi mode for 
> quick layering and digital controlled tuning routines for polyphonic 
> analogue synths were a big step forward.
> 
> FM is a form of synthesis I like very much and it´s a great combination 
> together w/ real analogue synths and when the Yamaha system came out, 
> TX-816, QX-1 and KX88 / KX76 controller keyboards,- that was a great 
> professional combo to work w/ for years and I have it in working 
> condition and use it up to now,- except the QX-1 which is and was 
> replaced by the various small computers later, Commodore SX, Atari and 
> at least a fully fletched DAW hardware and software.
> 
> The Synclavier was a real good FM machine too incl. sampling and 
> definitely not made for the consumer market.
> 
> Sampling,- well,- when the 1st machines entered the commercial market, I 
> wasn´t impressed that much.
> I remember demoing the Ensoniq Mirage keyboard @ Frankfurt Musik Messe 
> when it came out and it drove me nuts.
> I got one for free but sold it at the door when the fair finished.
> The EMU EII was too expensive for me and I wasn´t impressed by the 
> loading times and the sampling time at all,- but I lost jobs because I 
> didn´t own one.
> But when Akai released the S-1100 w/ 32MB memory and AES/EBU and SPDIF 
> connections as well as SMPTE sync and a FX board as also dedicated 
> Burr-Brown converters for each single out, that was a piece of gear 
> which had advantages for me and was affordable.
> When Tom Oberheim came up w/ the DPX-1 and the single out option, I 
> suddenly could use the EII , the Mirage and Prophet 2000 libraries w/ a 
> machine for the fraction of the price of a EII,- hallelujah !
> 
> We would have never seen a DAW without the pioneers of sampling 
> technology like EMU and Fairlight and I´m sure they never had in mind to 
> make other technologies obsolete in 1st place.
> 
> >
> > The problem nowadays is that for quite a while the old gear was 
> > stashed away or dumped. Young music makers were (are) growing up in a 
> > throw away society and as such they don't often think of a piece of 
> > gear having an emotional or historic value.
> >
> 
> Why should they think different in societies like todays where ideas and 
> produced music is downloadable for free in the web. They don´t even 
> think of the possibility making their livin w/ music. There are 
> exceptions, but these are rare. The golden times are definitely over and 
> most musos I know today have a day over job to make their living and 
> make music just for fun more or less.
> These guys who know really about the emotional and historic value are 
> now collectors in most cases.
> 
> All this is not a fault of the users or the manufacturers of gear 
> alone,- it´s mainly a fault of the commerciall music industry who faked 
> the customers w/ "digital is better" when they came up w/ the CD, 
> re-selling all their back catalogues content again for a higher price 
> and they tried it again w/ the DVD standard.
> In addition, they failed w/ protecting digital media and this, in 
> combination w/ sampling technology, rendered visual and audio material 
> into a cheap mass consumer market product,- far from being arts and culture.
> Also goernments failed in overhauling authors rights and royalties to 
> match todays ways of distribution.
> 
> Sampling made it possible to open the doors to the pro music biz for DJs.
> Somewhere in the mid 80th, I´ve read a story in a magazine about 2 guys, 
> both DJs, who wanted "to replace the popstars",- and they did.
> Owning a sampler and a computer for MIDI was all they needed to record 
> slices from records and some noizes to do a remix compilation which they 
> called "dance".
> Very welcome for the record industry which now got a complete album for 
> 1000 bucks.
> Just only doing a collage by triggering events isn´t the same than 
> composing, arranging, recording, mixing and mastering,- culture wise, 
> I´d say,- it´s the same difference than painting a picture or doing a 
> collage.
> 
> But the public accepted the results and buyed /used ´em,- so who to blame ?
> 
> > There is a lot of good new gear available that uses DSP to provide a 
> > close emulation of the old analogue kit but I have yet to find any 
> > that capture the sound of
> > "real" analogue with all it's intrinsic unique ability and inadequacies.
> >
> 
> Yes and no. It´s right it´s not exactly the same but who cares ? The 
> audience / consumer ? No.
> The consumer is very satisfied w/ the results of VST stuff running on a 
> computer host and being rendered and mastered,- that´s why many, many 
> producers sold all their hardware and some are using a Mac and Logic 
> only and make real good money,- I know ´em in person and some are old 
> friends.
> It´s just only a biz, they do what the market wants and get payed for 
> that,- means: It works.
> 
> I´m not that type of guy and I´m using all,- old analogue gear, FM, 
> sampling, VST stuff and virtual gear running on DSPs.
> I have to mention, Creamware/Sonic Core SCOPE to me gives the best 
> results synth wise and paired w/ total recall.
> Minimax, Prodyssey, Protone (or ProOne), Profit an U Know 7 are great 
> analogue emulations running on DSPs and the Zarg stuff by J.Bowen for 
> SCOPE is the ice of the cake even it´s not the best optimized software 
> for SCOPE.
> In a side by side comparison of p.ex. Minimax and a Minimoog D, you´ll 
> recognize small differences, but these are also present if you compare 2 
> Minimoog D.
> 
> In a mix of music, anyone will accept a Minimax as a Minimoog D if he 
> doesn´t know it´s a Minimax.
> 
> It´s harder to find a good Oberheim emulation because there´s only the 
> VST by Studioprojects,- the OPX Pro (which I own too).
> I own the Xpander and Matrix-1000,- OPX (Pro) is a total recall 
> replacement for the OBX, OBXa and OB-8, but not for the modulation 
> matrix machines.
> I never owned a real OBX, so I´m sure the real thing sounds different, 
> maybe "better",- but also lacks a lot of features todays software offers 
> if coded right.
> 
> > No two "discrete" analogue synths sound the same. You can put 2 or 3 
> > early Minimoogs or ARP's side by side on the bench, set the parameters 
> > the same, yet they will each have their own slight differences in sound.
> >
> 
> See above.
> 
> >
> > This to some extent was changed with the advent of synth chipsets 
> > available from the likes of SSM and Curtis but this has lead to 
> > another difficult issue. Yes it is true that these chips allowed for 
> > some excellent poly synths at a low (ish) price but it also meant that 
> > same gear was doomed to the dumpster at some stage. That stage is 
> > really near. The chips used are long out of production, few NOS(new 
> > old stock)are available and those that are have prices which far 
> > outway their initial cost.
> >
> 
> Up to now, sooner or later, I´ve found all the parts needed to keep my 
> old stuff working and I doubt that will change very early.
> In deed, there´s a investment of time and money to keep the gear 
> working, but there´s also a reason to do for me.
> So, if I need a part urgently, I pay for it to get it and don´t discuss 
> about the former initial costs.
> When I buyed the synths new in the past, these were also not cheap and I 
> used ´em to make money.
> The last CEM 3374 I buyed NOS some weeks ago was USD 85.-,- it´s so rare 
> I payed it before another one did.
> 
> > This means that more and more repairable gear is being gutted and sold 
> > off part by part through the likes of ebay (often at grossly inflated 
> > value)simply to keep other better maintained gear working. Sad but 
> > unavoidable.
> >
> 
> Hmmm,- there are 2 sides of the coin and one side is,- that way I´m able 
> to buy working parts to keep my machines alive.
> 
> >
> > Lastly a situation that makes my blood boil are the people (mostly 
> > again young) who through their upbringing in the "throw away society" 
> > take a perfectly good piece of gear, hack it and bash it beyond 
> > recognition for the sake of "circuit bending". Fine take a ten buck 
> > toy and thrash the guts out of it, but not old analogue gear!! I've 
> > read up on most of the websites relating to these endeavors and it's
> > my point of view that the vast majority of ppl into it no zero about 
> > the electronic's they are dealing with. They tend to use a poke it and 
> > see mentality which may work some of the time. I shudder at the 
> > thought the damage being done to some much good gear. Not only at the 
> > circuit level but to the hardware (casing, front panel etc) as they 
> > hack away.
> >
> 
> Simply put, life changes.
> These guys own the gear and they can do with it what they want,- even 
> throw it in the bin.
> I´ve seen one guy throwing a Minimoog D in the bin because he hated it,- 
> that was in the early 80th and when I had 3.
> The guy is a musician and a tech, did repairs in pro music shops in the 
> past,- and today he owns a studio for avantgarde music, a label, is 
> organizing festivals and plays in one of the most famous electronic 
> "Kraut" bands since the late 60th up today.
> He´s definitely making his living w/ music only.
> 
> PeWe
>

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Thanks for the welcome group

2010-07-28 by Paul Cunningham

i cant totally agree with this. sure its heartbreaking to see something nice get hosed up by mindless tinkering, but there some synths out there that should be disassembled forever (split-eight, jx-10) and re-engineered as something better. i remember totally modifying my mg-1 when i was a teenager without much knowledge about what i was doing. sure thats a great synth, and i ended up hosing up one of the oscillators in the end, but i've managed to come a long way since those days. just because someone thought it would be a great idea to market a synth based around "cheap" analog chips doesnt make the synth sacred, or rule out the possibility of doing something much more honorable with that chip. do you really use that pile of sequential maxs you are hoarding in your closet?? (answer is "yes, but im going to use the chips from at least one of them to do something better")... there are many commodity synths which are ripe for this kind of "remixing" and i love what michael hawk did with the venerable poly-800 to improve upon its features. search on youtube for poly61 and dw6000 for some other more admirable modifications. question: why do jx-3ps regularly sell for $200 on ebay? because they are also a commodity? because they are misunderstood or hated? because the pg-200 usually sells for much more? i love how they sound myself! -pc 
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On Jul 28, 2010, at 9:04 AM, "GB" <grantbt@...> wrote:

> Lastly a situation that makes my blood boil are the people (mostly again 
> young) who through their upbringing in the "throw away society" take a 
> perfectly good piece of gear, hack it and bash it beyond recognition for the 
> sake of "circuit bending". Fine take a ten buck toy and thrash the guts out 
> of it, but not old analogue gear!! I've read up on most of the websites 
> relating to these endeavors and it's
> my point of view that the vast majority of ppl into it no zero about the 
> electronic's they are dealing with. They tend to use a poke it and see 
> mentality which may work some of the time. I shudder at the thought the 
> damage being done to some much good gear. Not only at the circuit level but 
> to the hardware (casing, front panel etc) as they hack away.
> 
> ------------
> 
> Totally agree with this. In some cases the "kids" may then take an interest 
> in electronics, but so much gear gets totally trashed this way.
> 
> GB 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [vintagesynthrepair] Re: Thanks for the welcome group

2010-07-28 by PeWe

>>>

Am 29.07.2010 00:19, schrieb jabathaslut:
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PeWe

Off hand I don't know who the switch manufacturer was. If you know the part number I can probably look it up.


Thx, but no idea. I don´t have a service manual and I mailed the 1st owner of my XK who is a tech himself and owns the SM,- but he reported it´s just only a simple schematic.
So, nothing informative inside.

I have a some Akai info, I'll see if I have what u are after.


That would be great, thx again !

I think in my case, I come from a time when a piece of kit cost an arm and a leg AND the choice of products available was far smaller than is available to ppl today.


Same here.

Today, it's so easy (and relatively cheap) to acquire gear that does so much.


Yes and no. It promises it does much, but in most cases it doesn´t that much and what it does it does w/ bugs.
We get more polyphony, more and better samples and better FX sections, but in modern hardware workstations as well as computer based gear, polyphony is at it´s limits soon by complexity and layering of patches to make it sound big, so you end up w/ the voice-limitations in realtime also.
Midi implementation of most todays gear is quite poor and OS and firmware often buggy.
That´s why I kept some of the old stuff,- lets say, a good assortment of the old stuff I already know well and which is limited in features but reliable.
That´s why I invest in reliability and not latest gear fashion.

Yes it's also true you can now produce really great stuff with nothing more than a PC and a bit of software.


I never said it´s really great,- I said the consumer of music is satisfied w/ the result,- a big difference.

I think the difference being that in the earlier years I found myself having to get quite "intimate knowledge" of each piece of kit I owned to get the sort of sounds I wanted.


Yep, and these were the times you got payed in the studio,- being a player and sound programmer, for your personal sound,- and as arranger/composer for your ideas and creativity.

Today I can think of a sound, load up a few softies and usually find a preset close to what I'm after. It's a case of moving with the times.


Different job today,- be everything and everyone in one person,- studio owner, producer, engineer, keyboardplayer, arranger, composer and lyrics writer,- big time pressure.
Do 7 jobs and get payed for (n)one.

So, I don´t wonder why people fire up their PC and take the presets of the softies to make a take in a hurry.
I know pros who sent a mp3 as a demo to the major (!) record company and they printed the mp3 on a CD for sale and sent the contract later,- no kidding.
They simply don´t hear the difference.

If you care on sound and do serious work, today, it´s just only for yourself,- but sometimes we do if we have the time.


I think a good example of the "moving with times" scenario for me is
Kraftwerk. I have seen their show a number of times over the years, the first, way back when klingklang was a few truck loads of racked
gear. Last time I saw them it was 4 guys with laptops and a few midi controllers. What was better? Neither they both sounded great.


O.k., but from the visual aspect of a concert, I´d prefer the truckload of gear to watch on stage.
4 stiff guys w/ laptops don´t look like real performers to me and I doubt the Kraftwerk guys can really play, they are more the "push start/stop" and "realtime knob tweaking" guys, but,- it sounded and sounds good, no question.

But if Lyle Mays played his grand piano, the Oberheim 4-voice and the Prophet 5, it sounded not only good but great and it is timeless.
There are more examples.


I guess I find it sad the gear that brought me so much joy over the years is slowly disappearing. As they say "such is life" =)


No, no,- it´s vintagesynthrepair here, so these won´t disappear so fast ... :-)

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