Wiardgroup

Sorry if it's obvious, but could someone tell me exactly what a low
pass gate is, and how I can use my Boogie filter as such?

Gregg.

Hi Gregg
    it's a buchla-ism...
    right from the horses mouth-
go check out:
http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/index.html
    hit the list with ? again if this doesn't answer your first question.
tgif,
-doc

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "mrboningen"
<darkflametwentythree@h...> wrote:

> Sorry if it's obvious, but could someone tell me exactly what a low
> pass gate is, and how I can use my Boogie filter as such?
> 
> Gregg.

thanks for the link doc!

i've also seen peter grenader's low pass gates on his site.

in a standard vco-vcf-vca patch would i just skip the vca part and use
the 12dB output of the boogie?

gregg

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "drmabuce" <drmabuce@y...> wrote:
> Hi Gregg
>     it's a buchla-ism...
>     right from the horses mouth-
> go check out:
> http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/index.html
>     hit the list with ? again if this doesn't answer your first
question.

> tgif,
> -doc
> 
> --- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "mrboningen"
> <darkflametwentythree@h...> wrote:
> > Sorry if it's obvious, but could someone tell me exactly what a low
> > pass gate is, and how I can use my Boogie filter as such?
> > 
> > Gregg.

It's a mode unique to photo-electric filters. Any other transconductor (transistor, diode, 
OTA) can not run to zero control current without making bad things happen to the DC bias 
and producing 15 volt thumps.

But photo-electric filters go completely off (0 Hz). This allows you to use the filter as a 
combined VCF and VCA.

In the West Coast model, the complex timbres are generated before the filter via complex 
oscillators, non-linear waveshapers, FM or additive synthesis. The "gate" is then used for 
final amplitude and spectral shaping.

The Boogie supports both modes, either straight subtractive with a following VCA, like the 
East Coast instruments, or gating and spectral shaping without a following VCA, like the 
West Coast instruments.

The main frequency control covers 20 octaves, 0 to 20 Hz, which is 10 octaves, and 20 Hz 
to 20 kHz, which is another 10 octaves.

To "gate" with the Boogie, set initial frequency to zero and control range to max. 
Resonance is set to zero. A 10 volt signal into "Control In" will then sweep the filter from 0 
Hz to 20 kHz. The 6 dB output is approx. equivalent to the Buchla 292 "combo" mode, and 
the 12 dB output is approx. equivalent to the 292 "filter" mode. But the Hamamatsu opto-
couplers decay in 20 ms., rather than the 200 ms. decay of the VTL5C3/2 used in the 
Buchla 292C.

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "mrboningen" <darkflametwentythree@h...> wrote:

> Sorry if it's obvious, but could someone tell me exactly what a low
> pass gate is, and how I can use my Boogie filter as such?
> 
> Gregg.

hey grant,

thanks for the extremely informative answer! i've saved it in a text
file with all the other boogie info i could find from this list. 

how about the jumper switches? do they both need to be moved up in
order to maintain the same polarity between all the filter modes? and
the current draw of all the 1200 series modules?

will give it a whirl as a low pass gate later!

thanks again for the info,

gregg.

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "grantrichter2001" <grichter@a...>
wrote:
> It's a mode unique to photo-electric filters. Any other
transconductor (transistor, diode, 
> OTA) can not run to zero control current without making bad things
happen to the DC bias 
> and producing 15 volt thumps.
> 
> But photo-electric filters go completely off (0 Hz). This allows you
to use the filter as a 
> combined VCF and VCA.
> 
> In the West Coast model, the complex timbres are generated before
the filter via complex 
> oscillators, non-linear waveshapers, FM or additive synthesis. The
"gate" is then used for 
> final amplitude and spectral shaping.
> 
> The Boogie supports both modes, either straight subtractive with a
following VCA, like the 
> East Coast instruments, or gating and spectral shaping without a
following VCA, like the 
> West Coast instruments.
> 
> The main frequency control covers 20 octaves, 0 to 20 Hz, which is
10 octaves, and 20 Hz 
> to 20 kHz, which is another 10 octaves.
> 
> To "gate" with the Boogie, set initial frequency to zero and control
range to max. 
> Resonance is set to zero. A 10 volt signal into "Control In" will
then sweep the filter from 0 
> Hz to 20 kHz. The 6 dB output is approx. equivalent to the Buchla
292 "combo" mode, and 
> the 12 dB output is approx. equivalent to the 292 "filter" mode. But
the Hamamatsu opto-
> couplers decay in 20 ms., rather than the 200 ms. decay of the
VTL5C3/2 used in the 
> Buchla 292C.

One jumper is for the 24 dB output and the other for the 12 dB output. Move both to top 
position if your mixing with the Blacet Mixer Processor. Leave both at bottom position if 
you are mixing with the Blacet Quad VCA.

Current draw of the modules varies. Joysticks draw about 25 ma. Everything else is less 
than 100 ma. per module. Negative supply loading is always less than positive supply 
loading.

Please note that one Time Machine module can draw 250 ma. VCOs should be on a 
different supply.

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "mrboningen" <darkflametwentythree@h...> wrote:

> hey grant,
> 
> thanks for the extremely informative answer! i've saved it in a text
> file with all the other boogie info i could find from this list. 
> 
> how about the jumper switches? do they both need to be moved up in
> order to maintain the same polarity between all the filter modes? and
> the current draw of all the 1200 series modules?
> 
> will give it a whirl as a low pass gate later!
> 
> thanks again for the info,
> 
> gregg.
> 
> --- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, "grantrichter2001" <grichter@a...>
> wrote:
> > It's a mode unique to photo-electric filters. Any other
> transconductor (transistor, diode, 
> > OTA) can not run to zero control current without making bad things
> happen to the DC bias 
> > and producing 15 volt thumps.
> > 
> > But photo-electric filters go completely off (0 Hz). This allows you
> to use the filter as a 
> > combined VCF and VCA.
> > 
> > In the West Coast model, the complex timbres are generated before
> the filter via complex 
> > oscillators, non-linear waveshapers, FM or additive synthesis. The
> "gate" is then used for 
> > final amplitude and spectral shaping.
> > 
> > The Boogie supports both modes, either straight subtractive with a
> following VCA, like the 
> > East Coast instruments, or gating and spectral shaping without a
> following VCA, like the 
> > West Coast instruments.
> > 
> > The main frequency control covers 20 octaves, 0 to 20 Hz, which is
> 10 octaves, and 20 Hz 
> > to 20 kHz, which is another 10 octaves.
> > 
> > To "gate" with the Boogie, set initial frequency to zero and control
> range to max. 
> > Resonance is set to zero. A 10 volt signal into "Control In" will
> then sweep the filter from 0 
> > Hz to 20 kHz. The 6 dB output is approx. equivalent to the Buchla
> 292 "combo" mode, and 
> > the 12 dB output is approx. equivalent to the 292 "filter" mode. But
> the Hamamatsu opto-
> > couplers decay in 20 ms., rather than the 200 ms. decay of the
> VTL5C3/2 used in the 
> > Buchla 292C.

Some of you may be aware that there are new regulations & import
restrictions afoot in the European Union regarding the goods
containing harmful chemicals/elements, and one of these is lead.  So
far, I haven't read too much about this, except for: a post on AH from
a ModCan customer, stating that Bruce D is concerned about this, A
statement from Tony at Oakley stating that he is either discontinuing
or scaling back his line, and get 'em while you can, and I just got
the latest MOTM list digest, where Paul S seems to be wondering
exactly what to do.

As I'm an enthusiastic Wiard modular user in the UK, I'm wondering
what this is going to mean for future Wiard purchases.  I get the
distinct impression that musicians in the EU are a distinct minority
of the customer base of the North American manufacturers, and I guess
it's completely understandable if the cost of complying w/these
regulations is greater than the benefits to be gained by continuing to
sell to us euros!  I guess the 2 issues I'm concerned about are:

1/as I wish to continue buying the excellent products made by Grant
Richter, Paul Schreiber, Bruce Duncan, and John Blacet, what to do?  I
believe that even shipping bare PCBs is a problem because they contain
lead too!  Nothing against Doepfer or AS, I'm sure they make fine
products, but the instruments made by the North American manufacturers
I've chosen have been the right creative choices for me.

2/less likely to be a problem w/MOTM and Blacet, as they're kit based,
but what if I need to get some item repaired, serviced, calibrated
sent back to the manufacturer for whatever reason, will these regs
affect this as well?

Aslo, Grant, I've been trying to get in touch w/you in the last few
months w/r/t buying some more Wiard modules, but my emails seem to
have been blackholing? (or maybe your replies have been blackholing? 
I've no idea!)  What's the best way to get in touch?

Many thanks.

The best way to get in touch with Grant is to call him. I have spoken 
with him several times in the past couple of months. He is much more 
responsive to phone calls than e-mail in my experience...

1-414-769-0791

As for the lead issue, I can assure you that Grant is aware of this 
and working to engineer all new designs and certain older designs to 
conform to a host of new standards, some of which apply to products 
sold in the U.S. as well.

Best wishes,

Chris Sawyer

The best way to get in touch with Grant is to call him. I have spoken 
with him several times in the past couple of months. He is much more 
responsive to phone calls than e-mail in my experience...

1-414-769-0791

As for the lead issue, I can assure you that Grant is aware of this 
and working to engineer all new designs and certain older designs to 
conform to a host of new standards, some of which apply to products 
sold in the U.S. as well.

Best wishes,

Chris Sawyer

Not to "speak" for Grant, but in *general* terms:

a) current pcbs have lead because the copper traces
are coated with solder. There are alternate pcb
"coatings" that are lead-free.

b) All SMT (surface mounted) parts will be lead-free
by December. The RoHS directive takes effect July of
2006. So, that is 1 year away. Still time to ponder
what to do. No reason to run around in a panic (if you
want something to panic about, think about all the 25
year old EPROMS that will corrupt the next few years,
killing 95% of every currently working polysynth and
drum machine).

c) It is *very likely* that a RoHS complaint solution
will be possible in the 1 year time frame. Now, you
the humble customer will more than likely *pay more*.

d) as far as kits go: the most likely option is the EU
customers must user their own (cough cough) solder.
You *can* easily solder RoHS parts with lead solder
(HINT!!). It's the other way around that you can't do.

Paul S.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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Hello Norman,

I have not seen any information to say that lead free electronic assemblies perform better 
or last longer than assemblies which contain lead. To the extent possible, all Wiard 
products are built using "archival" design and assembly techniques. The aim is to produce 
modules which will still be functional 100 years from now.

The main technique is not using electrolytic capacitors in the signal path. Most modules 
are DC coupled. Electrolytics have a know life limitation. They normally fail "open", so 
using them for power supply bypassing is acceptable. The exception is the Borg Filter 
which requires them in the signal path. The life of the Borg Filter is still at least 25 to 30 
years.

It pains me to think about shipping a more expensive module which is inferior in longevity 
to the current product.

I wonder about purchasing used equipment on eBay. Will it become illeagle to ship used 
gear to the EU because it contains lead? If I plug in a module and listen to it, is it then 
used?

The total amount of lead in all 600+ Wiard modules is only 4 pounds. Wiard's entire 
lifetime lead contribution to the environment will be less than a single car battery tossed 
into a ditch.

As far as the regulations go, what will actually happen is, that one of the smart, capable 
people that are laughingly called "competitors" will figure it out, and the rest of us will all 
copy him or her. It's the American way!

As to why build modules that have the maximum possible life, I can only say "If you do not 
think of the future, the future certainly will not think of you".

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, Norman Fay <vietgrove@g...> wrote:

> Some of you may be aware that there are new regulations & import
> restrictions afoot in the European Union regarding the goods
> containing harmful chemicals/elements, and one of these is lead.  So
> far, I haven't read too much about this, except for: a post on AH from
> a ModCan customer, stating that Bruce D is concerned about this, A
> statement from Tony at Oakley stating that he is either discontinuing
> or scaling back his line, and get 'em while you can, and I just got
> the latest MOTM list digest, where Paul S seems to be wondering
> exactly what to do.
> 
> As I'm an enthusiastic Wiard modular user in the UK, I'm wondering
> what this is going to mean for future Wiard purchases.  I get the
> distinct impression that musicians in the EU are a distinct minority
> of the customer base of the North American manufacturers, and I guess
> it's completely understandable if the cost of complying w/these
> regulations is greater than the benefits to be gained by continuing to
> sell to us euros!  I guess the 2 issues I'm concerned about are:
> 
> 1/as I wish to continue buying the excellent products made by Grant
> Richter, Paul Schreiber, Bruce Duncan, and John Blacet, what to do?  I
> believe that even shipping bare PCBs is a problem because they contain
> lead too!  Nothing against Doepfer or AS, I'm sure they make fine
> products, but the instruments made by the North American manufacturers
> I've chosen have been the right creative choices for me.
> 
> 2/less likely to be a problem w/MOTM and Blacet, as they're kit based,
> but what if I need to get some item repaired, serviced, calibrated
> sent back to the manufacturer for whatever reason, will these regs
> affect this as well?
> 
> Aslo, Grant, I've been trying to get in touch w/you in the last few
> months w/r/t buying some more Wiard modules, but my emails seem to
> have been blackholing? (or maybe your replies have been blackholing? 
> I've no idea!)  What's the best way to get in touch?
> 
> Many thanks.

AFAIK, this regulation applies only to equipment ASSEMBLED after 2006, using, reusing, and recycling old gear is not prohibited. Even more, it's still legal to use leaded solder and leaded parts for repairs of old (pre 2006 that is) stuff.
About inferior longevity - I think you could paint the PCBs with some thick lacquer to at least prevent them from whisker threat.

Roman

---- Wiadomość Oryginalna ----
Od: grantrichter2001 <grichter@asapnet.net>
Do: wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com
Data: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 05:58:51 -0000
Temat: [wiardgroup] Re: new EU lead/solder regulations - likely effects for European Wiard customers?

> It pains me to think about shipping a more expensive module which is inferior in longevity 
> to the current product.
> 
> I wonder about purchasing used equipment on eBay. Will it become illeagle to ship used 
> gear to the EU because it contains lead? If I plug in a module and listen to it, is it then 
> used?
>

Conformal coating is certainly a logical idea. The problem is that conformal coating 
produces VOCs, which are more polluting than the lead we are trying to reduce pollution 
from.

Again, to the extent possible, Wiard uses "Green" technology. Everything that can be 
recycled, is recycled (like the shredded packing material, antistatic bubble wrap, and those 
shipping boxes covered with black out). Also waste and energy usage are minimized as 
much as possible. This is just good business practice, minimizing waste and energy usage, 
also minimizes expense.

While recycled packing material may not be as impressive as foamed in boxes and 5 mil 
plastic bags and wrapping, it has the advantage of minimizing the environmental burden.

I am only concerned if you are impressed with the module, not the disposable packing 
material.

--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, Roman <modular@g...> wrote:
> AFAIK, this regulation applies only to equipment ASSEMBLED after 2006, using, reusing, 
and recycling old gear is not prohibited. Even more, it's still legal to use leaded solder and 
leaded parts for repairs of old (pre 2006 that is) stuff.
> About inferior longevity - I think you could paint the PCBs with some thick lacquer to at 
least prevent them from whisker threat.
> 
> Roman
> 
> ---- Wiadomo¶æ Oryginalna ----
> Od: grantrichter2001 <grichter@a...>
> Do: wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 05:58:51 -0000
> Temat: [wiardgroup] Re: new EU lead/solder regulations - likely effects for European 
Wiard customers?
> 
> > It pains me to think about shipping a more expensive module which is inferior in 
longevity 
> > to the current product.
> > 
> > I wonder about purchasing used equipment on eBay. Will it become illeagle to ship 
used 

> > gear to the EU because it contains lead? If I plug in a module and listen to it, is it then 
> > used?
> >

That is what I was wondering about. Let's say a piece of equipment WAS assembled after 
2006, is NOT RoHs compliant. Is it then forbidden to purchase such an item second hand for 
people in the EU? And who enforces that policy?


--- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, Roman <modular@g...> wrote:
> AFAIK, this regulation applies only to equipment ASSEMBLED after 2006, using, reusing, 
and recycling old gear is not prohibited. Even more, it's still legal to use leaded solder and 
leaded parts for repairs of old (pre 2006 that is) stuff.

There's no such situation mentioned in ROHS directive, but explanation it can be easily expanded. It is forbidden to introduce new products non ROHS compliant into EU market. When someone imports used gear made after July 1st 2006 technically he/she introduces it into EU market. OTOH private user doesn't fit into definition of "producer". And the "producer" is equipment manufacturer, or reseller selling stuff under his brand, or someone importing/exporting equipment as proffesional business So if private person cannot be clasified in ROHS directive, I assume second hand equipment is free from banning.
So in reality you coould sell to UE via couple of your customers ;)
If you do it direct, with invoice, sent via courier, when it comes thru customs, I guess it will be sent back.
Even if your stuff complies with WEEE, as a producer, you have to clearly mark the modules with "no trash bin" sign and pay the cost of recycling it (I assume some fixed ammount depending on weight).
I'm not a lawyer, I really can't tell if its this way or another.

You can also treat the modules as replacement parts for repair of the synth. In this case you could make them with leaded solder forever.

Another issue is that's not doable to check peoples houses if they have some lead in their synths.

Roman

---- Wiadomość Oryginalna ----
Od: grantrichter2001 <grichter@asapnet.net>
Do: wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com
Data: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:45:50 -0000
Temat: [wiardgroup] Re: new EU lead/solder regulations - likely effects for European Wiard customers?

> That is what I was wondering about. Let's say a piece of equipment WAS assembled after 
> 2006, is NOT RoHs compliant. Is it then forbidden to purchase such an item second hand for 
> people in the EU? And who enforces that policy?
> 
> 
> --- In wiardgroup@yahoogroups.com, Roman <modular@g...> wrote:
> > AFAIK, this regulation applies only to equipment ASSEMBLED after 2006, using, reusing, 
> and recycling old gear is not prohibited. Even more, it's still legal to use leaded solder and 
> leaded parts for repairs of old (pre 2006 that is) stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
>