Yamaha CS80

hi guys, im hoping someone here can help me calibrate my LAST VOICE OF MY CS80! (along with the kind help of steve sloan, i am hoping to have her 100%).

the diagnosis(i dont have a voltage generator, so i have to do this by ear, but otherwise i am following the factory procedure):

-on presets or sounds that involve an envelope, this one voice does a thing that basically sounds to me like the envelope opens, but just doesnt close. example, on the "funky" presets, this voice sticks WAY out(HPF fully open in sustained note mode), as the normal voices EG close, leaving a low filtered note. this "bad note" sounds like one of the string presets, to give you an impression. on sounds that dont rely on a large EG sweep, you dont notice it. but about 1/2 of the presets do, so its VERY noticeable.

-i know its not the IG00152 chip. thought it was, but swapped with a working chip, and i get same results.

-trim pots VR18,15, and 19-when i sweep through VR15 and VR19, ESPECIALLY the "sustain level"(vr15, i believe) i dont seem to get a huge range of difference. i was able to get the ATTACK calibrated properly with VR18, but there is no trim pot for DECAY, which is really what my problem is. this voice has an infinite decay, basically.

-i measured all 3 of the VCF EG trim pots on a DVM, and they all have a resistance range of roughly 0 to 25k-50k, depending on pot. so they may not be FULLY functioning, but they are definitely not dead.


im totally stumped here.  any guesses? thanks alot guys!

-rj




       
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I have the same thing with my CS80.  It goes away when I turn the IL 
and AL down all the way on the filter. The envelope never seems to 
reset otherwise on that voice for the VCF.  Do you have a kenton midi 
kit installed?  I do.  I wonder if it has something to do with that, 
or if this is normal.



--- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, rj krohn <r_j_d_2.phila@...> wrote:
>
> hi guys, im hoping someone here can help me calibrate my LAST VOICE 
OF MY CS80! (along with the kind help of steve sloan, i am hoping to 
have her 100%).
> 
> the diagnosis(i dont have a voltage generator, so i have to do this 
by ear, but otherwise i am following the factory procedure):
> 
> -on presets or sounds that involve an envelope, this one voice does 
a thing that basically sounds to me like the envelope opens, but just 
doesnt close. example, on the "funky" presets, this voice sticks WAY 
out(HPF fully open in sustained note mode), as the normal voices EG 
close, leaving a low filtered note. this "bad note" sounds like one 
of the string presets, to give you an impression. on sounds that dont 
rely on a large EG sweep, you dont notice it. but about 1/2 of the 
presets do, so its VERY noticeable.
> 
> -i know its not the IG00152 chip. thought it was, but swapped with 
a working chip, and i get same results.
> 
> -trim pots VR18,15, and 19-when i sweep through VR15 and VR19, 
ESPECIALLY the "sustain level"(vr15, i believe) i dont seem to get a 
huge range of difference. i was able to get the ATTACK calibrated 
properly with VR18, but there is no trim pot for DECAY, which is 
really what my problem is. this voice has an infinite decay, 
basically.
> 
> -i measured all 3 of the VCF EG trim pots on a DVM, and they all 
have a resistance range of roughly 0 to 25k-50k, depending on pot. so 
they may not be FULLY functioning, but they are definitely not dead.
> 
> 
> im totally stumped here.  any guesses? thanks alot guys!
> 
> -rj
> 
> 
> 
> 
>        
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! 
Search.

> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

scott, thanks for the reply. i have a new theory about this, its still just a guess, so if anyone knows for sure, id love to hear from them:

i think the 50k trim pot for VCF EG sustain(r15?) may be shot. if it were, and it was essentially passing signal at "max", then wouldnt that mean that the sustain level of the VCF EG was essentially set to max constantly, causing the EG to SOUND like its never resetting, although it really is just set at a max level?

i've got some extra 50k trimmer pots, i may drop one in on r15/r18/r19 , or whichever one it is.

one things for sure-calibrating the envelopes without a scope is HARD. i broke down last week and ordered one, as ive just had too many instances where i needed one. on all my other synths, i was basically able to tune/calibrate OSC settings by ear, but this one's  a b***ch! (also got a nice hakke desoldering gun. new toys come soon!)


Scott Metzger <scottmetzger3d@...> wrote:                               I have the same thing with my CS80.  It goes away when I turn the IL 
 and AL down all the way on the filter. The envelope never seems to 
 reset otherwise on that voice for the VCF.  Do you have a kenton midi 
 kit installed?  I do.  I wonder if it has something to do with that, 
 or if this is normal.
 
 --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, rj krohn <r_j_d_2.phila@...> wrote:
 >
 > hi guys, im hoping someone here can help me calibrate my LAST VOICE 
 OF MY CS80! (along with the kind help of steve sloan, i am hoping to 
 have her 100%).
 > 
 > the diagnosis(i dont have a voltage generator, so i have to do this 
 by ear, but otherwise i am following the factory procedure):
 > 
 > -on presets or sounds that involve an envelope, this one voice does 
 a thing that basically sounds to me like the envelope opens, but just 
 doesnt close. example, on the "funky" presets, this voice sticks WAY 
 out(HPF fully open in sustained note mode), as the normal voices EG 
 close, leaving a low filtered note. this "bad note" sounds like one 
 of the string presets, to give you an impression. on sounds that dont 
 rely on a large EG sweep, you dont notice it. but about 1/2 of the 
 presets do, so its VERY noticeable.
 > 
 > -i know its not the IG00152 chip. thought it was, but swapped with 
 a working chip, and i get same results.
 > 
 > -trim pots VR18,15, and 19-when i sweep through VR15 and VR19, 
 ESPECIALLY the "sustain level"(vr15, i believe) i dont seem to get a 
 huge range of difference. i was able to get the ATTACK calibrated 
 properly with VR18, but there is no trim pot for DECAY, which is 
 really what my problem is. this voice has an infinite decay, 
 basically.
 > 
 > -i measured all 3 of the VCF EG trim pots on a DVM, and they all 
 have a resistance range of roughly 0 to 25k-50k, depending on pot. so 
 they may not be FULLY functioning, but they are definitely not dead.
 > 
 > 
 > im totally stumped here.  any guesses? thanks alot guys!
 > 
 > -rj
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >        
 > ---------------------------------
 > Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! 
 Search.
 > 
 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 >
 
 
     
                               

       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

So do you think mine is shot too?  God... I would hate to have to move this thing back in my car, and drive it to David Rogoffs.  



To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com

From: r_j_d_2.phila@...
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 06:34:50 -0800
Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] Re: can you help me calibrate/troubleshoot this VCF EG?
















  


    
            scott, thanks for the reply. i have a new theory about this, its still just a guess, so if anyone knows for sure, id love to hear from them:



i think the 50k trim pot for VCF EG sustain(r15?) may be shot. if it were, and it was essentially passing signal at "max", then wouldnt that mean that the sustain level of the VCF EG was essentially set to max constantly, causing the EG to SOUND like its never resetting, although it really is just set at a max level?



i've got some extra 50k trimmer pots, i may drop one in on r15/r18/r19 , or whichever one it is.



one things for sure-calibrating the envelopes without a scope is HARD. i broke down last week and ordered one, as ive just had too many instances where i needed one. on all my other synths, i was basically able to tune/calibrate OSC settings by ear, but this one's  a b***ch! (also got a nice hakke desoldering gun. new toys come soon!)



Scott Metzger <scottmetzger3d@...> wrote:                               I have the same thing with my CS80.  It goes away when I turn the IL 

 and AL down all the way on the filter. The envelope never seems to 

 reset otherwise on that voice for the VCF.  Do you have a kenton midi 

 kit installed?  I do.  I wonder if it has something to do with that, 

 or if this is normal.

 

 --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, rj krohn <r_j_d_2.phila@...> wrote:

 >

 > hi guys, im hoping someone here can help me calibrate my LAST VOICE 

 OF MY CS80! (along with the kind help of steve sloan, i am hoping to 

 have her 100%).

 > 

 > the diagnosis(i dont have a voltage generator, so i have to do this 

 by ear, but otherwise i am following the factory procedure):

 > 

 > -on presets or sounds that involve an envelope, this one voice does 

 a thing that basically sounds to me like the envelope opens, but just 

 doesnt close. example, on the "funky" presets, this voice sticks WAY 

 out(HPF fully open in sustained note mode), as the normal voices EG 

 close, leaving a low filtered note. this "bad note" sounds like one 

 of the string presets, to give you an impression. on sounds that dont 

 rely on a large EG sweep, you dont notice it. but about 1/2 of the 

 presets do, so its VERY noticeable.

 > 

 > -i know its not the IG00152 chip. thought it was, but swapped with 

 a working chip, and i get same results.

 > 

 > -trim pots VR18,15, and 19-when i sweep through VR15 and VR19, 

 ESPECIALLY the "sustain level"(vr15, i believe) i dont seem to get a 

 huge range of difference. i was able to get the ATTACK calibrated 

 properly with VR18, but there is no trim pot for DECAY, which is 

 really what my problem is. this voice has an infinite decay, 

 basically.

 > 

 > -i measured all 3 of the VCF EG trim pots on a DVM, and they all 

 have a resistance range of roughly 0 to 25k-50k, depending on pot. so 

 they may not be FULLY functioning, but they are definitely not dead.

 > 

 > 

 > im totally stumped here.  any guesses? thanks alot guys!

 > 

 > -rj

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 >        

 > ---------------------------------

 > Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! 

 Search.

 > 

 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 >

 

 

     

                               



---------------------------------

Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      

    
    

















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i dont know. if you can solder, you can always replace the pot/pots yourself, it cant hurt. i am waiting for my hakke to show up before i open mine up again, but if i find out one way or the other, i will report back for you.

dont know about yours, the best i can approximate the behavior of this one voice on the rest of the voices is by turning the controller's resonance and brilliance settings all the way up. i cant approximate the sound using the HPF or LPF, or their RES, this leads me to believe that its not a filter issue. 



Scott Metzger <scottmetzger3d@...> wrote:                               So do you think mine is shot too?  God... I would hate to have to move this thing back in my car, and drive it to David Rogoffs.  
 
 To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com

 From: r_j_d_2.phila@...
 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 06:34:50 -0800
 Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] Re: can you help me calibrate/troubleshoot this VCF EG?
 
 scott, thanks for the reply. i have a new theory about this, its still just a guess, so if anyone knows for sure, id love to hear from them:
 
 i think the 50k trim pot for VCF EG sustain(r15?) may be shot. if it were, and it was essentially passing signal at "max", then wouldnt that mean that the sustain level of the VCF EG was essentially set to max constantly, causing the EG to SOUND like its never resetting, although it really is just set at a max level?
 
 i've got some extra 50k trimmer pots, i may drop one in on r15/r18/r19 , or whichever one it is.
 
 one things for sure-calibrating the envelopes without a scope is HARD. i broke down last week and ordered one, as ive just had too many instances where i needed one. on all my other synths, i was basically able to tune/calibrate OSC settings by ear, but this one's  a b***ch! (also got a nice hakke desoldering gun. new toys come soon!)
 
 Scott Metzger <scottmetzger3d@...> wrote:                               I have the same thing with my CS80.  It goes away when I turn the IL 
 
 and AL down all the way on the filter. The envelope never seems to 
 
 reset otherwise on that voice for the VCF.  Do you have a kenton midi 
 
 kit installed?  I do.  I wonder if it has something to do with that, 
 
 or if this is normal.
 
 --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, rj krohn <r_j_d_2.phila@...> wrote:
 
 >
 
 > hi guys, im hoping someone here can help me calibrate my LAST VOICE 
 
 OF MY CS80! (along with the kind help of steve sloan, i am hoping to 
 
 have her 100%).
 
 > 
 
 > the diagnosis(i dont have a voltage generator, so i have to do this 
 
 by ear, but otherwise i am following the factory procedure):
 
 > 
 
 > -on presets or sounds that involve an envelope, this one voice does 
 
 a thing that basically sounds to me like the envelope opens, but just 
 
 doesnt close. example, on the "funky" presets, this voice sticks WAY 
 
 out(HPF fully open in sustained note mode), as the normal voices EG 
 
 close, leaving a low filtered note. this "bad note" sounds like one 
 
 of the string presets, to give you an impression. on sounds that dont 
 
 rely on a large EG sweep, you dont notice it. but about 1/2 of the 
 
 presets do, so its VERY noticeable.
 
 > 
 
 > -i know its not the IG00152 chip. thought it was, but swapped with 
 
 a working chip, and i get same results.
 
 > 
 
 > -trim pots VR18,15, and 19-when i sweep through VR15 and VR19, 
 
 ESPECIALLY the "sustain level"(vr15, i believe) i dont seem to get a 
 
 huge range of difference. i was able to get the ATTACK calibrated 
 
 properly with VR18, but there is no trim pot for DECAY, which is 
 
 really what my problem is. this voice has an infinite decay, 
 
 basically.
 
 > 
 
 > -i measured all 3 of the VCF EG trim pots on a DVM, and they all 
 
 have a resistance range of roughly 0 to 25k-50k, depending on pot. so 
 
 they may not be FULLY functioning, but they are definitely not dead.
 
 > 
 
 > 
 
 > im totally stumped here.  any guesses? thanks alot guys!
 
 > 
 
 > -rj
 
 > 
 
 > 
 
 > 
 
 > 
 
 >        
 
 > ---------------------------------
 
 > Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! 
 
 Search.
 
 > 
 
 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 >
 
 ---------------------------------
 
 Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
     
                               

       
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Can anyone recommend a really great tuning non conductive flathead that has a led light built in for tuning the CS80?  A link would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
 




















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

scott, IMO, tuning without LED's is not hard. you just count em down. plastic tuners should be available at your local electronics store.

one added technique, if you have trouble with keeping track, is to note in your head the position of the screw. then, if you think you are tuning a voice but you've got it wrong(no change in pitch while you hold note), you can just turn it back to where it was. i know its a bit primitive, but it can help. just dive in. its not un-doable.

ps-touching up the thermal grease on the VCO chips really helped my stability.

Scott Metzger <scottmetzger3d@...> wrote:                               Can anyone recommend a really great tuning non conductive flathead that has a led light built in for tuning the CS80?  A link would be greatly appreciated.
 
 Thanks!
  
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
     
                               

       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

scott, IMO, tuning without LED's is not hard. you just count em down. plastic tuners should be available at your local electronics store.
I don't think that's what Scott was asking about. I think he just wanted a lighted, insulated screwdriver so he can see what he's doing. If you look here: http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032309, you will find anti-static wrist straps and screwdrivers. For a light, a head-mounted one works pretty well: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2903398. And you can wear it on stage to look cool :^)

I'm showing Radio Shack items since, at least in the US, they're everywhere.

 David



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hah!  That is soo funny.  I am totally gonna tune the CS80 wearing that!!





To: yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com

From: david@...
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 00:21:46 +0000
Subject: [yamahacs80] Re: Tool for tuning
















  


    
            

scott, IMO, tuning without LED's is not hard. you just count em down. plastic tuners should be available at your local electronics store.

I don't think that's what Scott was asking about. I think he just wanted a lighted, insulated screwdriver so he can see what he's doing. If you look here: http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032309, you will find anti-static wrist straps and screwdrivers. For a light, a head-mounted one works pretty well: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2903398. And you can wear it on stage to look cool :^)



I'm showing Radio Shack items since, at least in the US, they're everywhere.



David



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      

    
    

















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]