[sdiy] Thoughts on drum synth

[Tim Ressel]

The problem I have with with Sampled sounds is they
never change! One of my pet peeves is a clap-track
that is sampled. Drives me nutz! But thats just me...

Truth is: even a kick drum, which is being hit in the
same place each time, can sound different depending on
how hard its hit. And other factors I'm sure.

--TR

--- harry <harrybissell at prodigy.net> wrote:
> Hey... I started this mess  ;^)
> 
> I was using a sampled "kick drum"... which I might
> add is a great sounding
> kick drum.  I'm all for using sampled drums
> because...
> 
> 1) only a really GOOD kick drum sounds really
> good... like the one they futzed
> with for hours before getting the sample.
> 
> 2) most LIVE kick drums sound really bad... very few
> drummers know how to
> maintain their equipment, unfortunatly.  If you are
> NOT one of those... my
> apologies
> in advance... but you KNOW you are a rare breed,
> indeed.
> 
> 3) most LIVE kick drums come with a live kick
> drummer... who will kick as hard
> as he/she/it can.  It is agreed that most drums
> sound best when you hit them hard.
> 
> Of course its also helpful to hit them at the right
> time.  I once had a drummer
> who
> got cut off at the bar... the Coffeebar...
> "Hey... this expresso is not for the DRUMMER is it
> ???"   ;^P   <truth!>
> 
> 4) The SPL of that kick drum will get my act fired
> from the coffeehouses I play
> in...
> so I use a sampled drum.
> 
> I like the idea of synthesized (analog) drums. I
> want the somewhat "lower-fi"
> sound.
> I've done the "twin-t" method and its OK... I want a
> little more.
> 
> Any opinions on the "sound" of some approaches such
> as the various Rol at nd units?
> Any favorites ?   Ones not to waste time on ?
> 
> H^) harry
> 
> ps: I'd be up for a percussion model project as
> suggested
> 
> matti wrote:
> 
> > The conversations has been had a million times
> before, and it will be mad
> > a million times again. Don't use synthesizers to
> do a kickdrum's job. If
> > you want a kickdrum, use a kickdrum.
> >
> > If, however, you're using a kickdrum as a model
> for synthesis, that's all
> > good. Use The synthesizer's strong points. Just
> like You use the kickdrum
> > for low pitched, cutting, pulsing sounds. A lot of
> this has to do with the
> > interface of the drum, as it controls the
> generation of the sounds. If
> > someone makes a module similar to what we're
> talking about and leaves all
> > patches at the front panel, modular patchability
> should be exploited. And
> > so on.
> >
> > enjoy
> >
> > On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Peter Grenader wrote:
> >
> > > I am very impressed with these figures,
> especially the mode information from
> > > Tim.  It really is great that you guys have such
> knowledge. Very impressive.
> > >
> > > I think though that the answer, the sucessful
> implimentation will lie in a
> > > balance of the left and right brain lobe. The
> 'left 'in this analogy being
> > > the synthesis of the physics behind the sound,
> the 'right' being in the end
> > > it will come down to tweeks by ear.
> > >
> > > My suspicion is if even if the
> harmonic/amplitude ratios could be executed
> > > fathfully via analog, that it still might not
> sound like a kick bass because
> > > there is an aweful lot that goes into it outside
> of these overtones.  In the
> > > very least, while you may be able to nail one
> sound, the normal use of a
> > > bass drum within a single track contains many
> different sounds even though
> > > only one drum and one drummer is present.  What
> will be difficult to
> > > synthesize is the human qualities of the
> playing, which as you know is a
> > > real big part of the the whole effect of  a
> drummer drumming.
> > >
> > > It has been my experience that while it's
> possible to get close via analog
> > > or even digital, it's usually impossible to get
> spot-on.  In this instance
> > > though I think this is a job for digits, not
> volts.
> > >
> > > If you look into those who have tried this with
> other models, the human
> > > voice (Charles Dodge, Paul Lansky and Jon
> Appleton) in the end it was
> > > impossible to accomplish via analog and they all
> had to go to computers (at
> > > Columbia Uni, Bell Labs and Dartmouth College
> respectfully).   It's silly
> > > however for me to compare the two sounds, as the
> human voice is by far more
> > > complex than a kick. One who has come close is
> Wendy Carlos  but be aware
> > > that most of her drums sounds were played at
> half speed in their final form,
> > > the effects of which you just can't replicate
> through real-time analog
> > > means.
> > >
> > > And while I am not a real big fan of the the
> technology, the subject will
> > > undoubtedly come up "why don't you just sample a
> bass drum", although I
> > > understand that this is not the thrust behind
> the experiement.
> > >
> > > Again, I am not trying to quell this idea
> because it is quite admirable.  At
> > > the very least, I am trying to suggest that a
> very careful analysis of the
> > > entire sound event needs to be taken into
> account, which goes much beyond
> > > the harmonic structure of the instrument.
> > >
> > > very respectfully submitted -
> > >
> > > P
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > on 3/31/02 7:11 PM, Tim Ressel at
> madhun2001 at yahoo.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > Christian,
> > > >
> > > >> Fascinating...
> > > >> is this EVERY drum with a circular head?  I'm
> > > >> assuming this is for a head
> > > >> stretched to a specific tension all the way
> > > >> around... or does the tension of
> > > >> the different parts of the drum just change
> the
> > > >> relationship of the mode
> > > >> amplitudes to the fundamental?
> > > >
> > > > Assumes equal tension across the head.
> > > > Formula for freq of stretched membrane:
> > > >
> > > > Fo = (0.382/R) * sqrt(T/m)
> > > >
> > > > R=Radius of membrane in centimeters
> > > > T=tension in dynes per centimeter
> > > > m=mass of membrane in grams per square
> centimeter
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> this would be interesting.  Modeling this
> seems
> > > >> intriging... I've been
> > > >> studying physical modeling for a while and
> wonder if
> > > >> we this could me
> > > >> modeled with a delay line representing the
> 'height'
> > > >> of the drum with a
> > > >> scattering junction at end.  Sort of like a
> Physical
> > > >> model for a horn or
> > > >> flute, but with a really different excitation
> > > >> signal...
> > > >
> > > > Because the radius is much larger than the
> length, the
> > > > end effects kinda swamp the tube effect.
> That's why I
> > > > said the filter would have a low Q. Physical
> modelling
> > > > would be fun, if a bit overkill...
> 
=== message truncated ===


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