50g

Would appreciate advice on how to get programs to work on my new 50g.

There are insufficient examples in the 50g manual provided on a CD.

The examples in the 49advancedmanual.pdf (which I downloaded) don't
seem to work on the 50g.  After keying in a program, pressing 'enter'
key, then the store key; it tells me:  "STO Error: Bad Argument Type"

What is being done incorrectly??

Thanks, Steve

aa0p3 wrote:
> Would appreciate advice on how to get programs to work on my new 50g.
> 
> There are insufficient examples in the 50g manual provided on a CD.
> 
> The examples in the 49advancedmanual.pdf (which I downloaded) don't
> seem to work on the 50g.  After keying in a program, pressing 'enter'
> key, then the store key; it tells me:  "STO Error: Bad Argument Type"
> 
> What is being done incorrectly??
> 
> Thanks, Steve
> 
> 

OK.  We will do this in RPN mode with the soft menus set.  Go into MODE 
and make sure the operating mode is RPN.  Then, while still in the MODE 
screen, find the soft key on the bottom labeled FLAGS, and press the key 
below it (F1).  Either press the down arrow for a while, or the up arrow 
for a shorter while, to highlight flag 117 (Soft MENU) and make sure it 
has a check mark beside it (this will affect the way your calculator 
presents options to you.  Instead of "choose from a list" dialogs, you 
will get "press a softkey" menus instead -- lots of good features, which 
were designed before the choose menus were added to the OS, work better 
this way; you'll thank me later, especially after you use UNITS).  Press 
the soft key labeled OK twice to exit the MODE screen.

Key in a program, a simple one we will call 'ADD2'.

<< 2 + >>

You press, in sequence:

the Right-shift key
+ (this gets you the "program" brackets)
2
+
ENTER

The program is on the stack.

Now press the single-quote key in the middle of the keyboard above SIN. 
  This gets you a pair of single-quotes with the cursor between them.

Press and hold the yellow ALPHA key, and, while holding it down, press 
the keys with the yellow letters A D D and the number 2, and then 
release the ALPHA key.  Press ENTER.

A variable name is on the stack.

Your stack has:
<< 2 + >>
'ADD2'

Press the STO key.

The program is now stored in the variable.  Both disappear from the stack.

Press the VAR key to see your variables in the soft-menu area.  One of 
them, the first on the list probably, will be ADD2.

Press the 5 key, then press the ADD2 key.  The 5 should be replaced by 7.

That's a program.  Now try this:  Press the right-shift, then press the 
ADD2 soft-key.  You have used the short-hand method of recalling the 
program from the variable, so there's your program again on the stack. 
Press the down-arrow key to edit it.  Use the arrow keys to move to the 
right of the 2, then press the backspace key.  Now press the 3 key, then 
ENTER.

You now have a program that adds three.

Press the left-shift key, then press the ADD2 key.  You have just 
replaced the old program in ADD2 with this new program using the 
short-hand method.  Verify this in any ways you like.

Now press the single-quote key again, and press the ADD2 key.  Instead 
of adding two, it sticks the name ADD2 in the single quotes.  Press 
ENTER and it's on the stack.  Fool around with this kind thing.  Write 
longer, less trivial programs.  Check Wikipedia for RPL.  Try the 
control structures you see.  Lots of ways to loop and compare.  Remember 
that the comparison operator for EQUALS is '==' instead of '='.  Ask 
more questions later!  Read the AUR, the Advanced User Reference!  Have fun!


-- 
Dave Boyd
"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall
  like a house of cards. Checkmate."  -Capt. Zapp Brannigan, D.O.O.P.

his instructions (and very detailed, clear ones they were) did not included hitting the store key. were you able to follow the example? perhaps you need to do

You should have 2 things on your stack...
level 2 should have  << 2 + >>
level 1 should have  'ADD2'

how you got...
1:  ::  x<< % 2. x+ x'
     ID ADD2 x'x>> ;

...I'm not sure but, just in case, check flags 85 &
92. They should be off (no check mark)



> Key in a program, a simple one we will call 'ADD2'.
> 
><< 2 + >>
> 
> You press, in sequence:
> 
> the Right-shift key
> + (this getsyou the "program" brackets)
> 2
> +
> ENTER
> 
> The program is on the stack.
>
> Now press the single-quote key in the middle of the
keyboard above 
>SIN. 
>  This gets you a pairof single-quotes with the
cursor between them.
> 
> Press and hold the yellow ALPHA key, and, while
holdingit down, 
>press 
> the keys with the yellow letters A D D and the
number 2, and then 
> release theALPHA key.  Press ENTER.
> 
> A variable name is on the stack.
> 
> Your stack has:
><< 2 + >>
> 'ADD2'
> 
> Press the STO key.

=1=1=1=1=1=1=1=1=1=1=1=1=1
My stackhas; (after pressing ENTER)

1:  ::  x<< % 2. x+ x'
     ID ADD2 x'x>> ;

When I press 'STO'
the message

! STO Error:
Bad Argument
Type

comes to thescreen in a shadowed box.
and the contents of register 1 are still there




       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/

i apologize. i did forget the 'STO' command was part of the example.

old age--no cure in sight ...

/guy

On 9/7/07, Don Hart <ddhart1@...> wrote:
> You should have 2 things on your stack...
> level 2 should have  << 2 + >>
> level 1 should have  'ADD2'
>
> how you got...
> 1:  ::  x<< % 2. x+ x'
>      ID ADD2 x'x>> ;
>
> ...I'm not sure but, just in case, check flags 85 &
> 92. They should be off (no check mark)
>
>
>
> > Key in a program, a simple one we will call 'ADD2'.
> >
> ><< 2 + >>
> >
> > You press, in sequence:
> >
> > the Right-shift key
> > + (this getsyou the "program" brackets)
> > 2
> > +
> > ENTER
> >
> > The program is on the stack.
> >
> > Now press the single-quote key in the middle of the
> keyboard above
> >SIN.
> >  This gets you a pairof single-quotes with the
> cursor between them.
> >
> > Press and hold the yellow ALPHA key, and, while
> holdingit down,
> >press
> > the keys with the yellow letters A D D and the
> number 2, and then
> > release theALPHA key.  Press ENTER.
> >
> > A variable name is on the stack.
> >
> > Your stack has:
> ><< 2 + >>
> > 'ADD2'
> >
> > Press the STO key.
>
> =1=1=1=1=1=1=1=1=1=1=1=1=1
> My stackhas; (after pressing ENTER)
>
> 1:  ::  x<< % 2. x+ x'
>      ID ADD2 x'x>> ;
>
> When I press 'STO'
> the message
>
> ! STO Error:
> Bad Argument
> Type
>
> comes to thescreen in a shadowed box.
> and the contents of register 1 are still there
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


-- 
We were somewhere around the Withywindle on the edge of the Old Forest
when the drugs began to take hold. --Hunter S. Tolkien

Hello Dave,
After clearing flags 85 & 92 your example program worked exactly as  
described.
Thank you E6 for you help and response.

I will keep practicing as well as getting more referance material.
Hopefully some day I will understand why you up-to-date HP'ers say RPL  
rather than RPN.  Even the skimpy documentation uses RPL. Also I hope to  
eventually learn the purpose of flags 85 & 92.

Thanks again,
Steve Huntsman

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 23:01:45 -0500, Don Hart <ddhart1@...> wrote:

> You should have 2 things on your stack...
> level 2 should have  << 2 + >>
> level 1 should have  'ADD2'
>
> how you got...
> 1:  ::  x<< % 2. x+ x'
>      ID ADD2 x'x>> ;
>
> ...I'm not sure but, just in case, check flags 85 &
> 92. They should be off (no check mark)
>
>
>
>> Key in a program, a simple one we will call 'ADD2'.
>>
>> << 2 + >>
>>
>> You press, in sequence:
>>
>> the Right-shift key
>> + (this getsyou the "program" brackets)
>> 2
>> +
>> ENTER
>>
>> The program is on the stack.
>>
>> Now press the single-quote key in the middle of the
> keyboard above
>> SIN.
>>  This gets you a pairof single-quotes with the
> cursor between them.
>>
>> Press and hold the yellow ALPHA key, and, while
> holdingit down,
>> press
>> the keys with the yellow letters A D D and the
> number 2, and then
>> release theALPHA key.  Press ENTER.
>>
>> A variable name is on the stack.
>>
>> Your stack has:
>> << 2 + >>
>> 'ADD2'
>>
>> Press the STO key.
>
> =1=1=1=1=1=1=1=1=1=1=1=1=1
> My stackhas; (after pressing ENTER)
>
> 1:  ::  x<< % 2. x+ x'
>      ID ADD2 x'x>> ;
>
> When I press 'STO'
> the message
>
> ! STO Error:
> Bad Argument
> Type
>
> comes to thescreen in a shadowed box.
> and the contents of register 1 are still there
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new  
> Car Finder tool.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/



-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

> 
> I will keep practicing as well as getting more referance material.
> Hopefully some day I will understand why you up-to-date HP'ers say RPL  
> rather than RPN.  Even the skimpy documentation uses RPL. 

RPN refers to the way math is done, ie RPN or ALG; RPL refers to the
programming language, Reverse Polish Lisp, which traditionally uses
RPN/stack based logic.

Guy Teague wrote:
> his instructions (and very detailed, clear ones they were) did not included
> hitting the store key.
> 
> were you able to follow the example? perhaps you need to do a hard reset
> first and try the example again.

Well, I basically only read this list during weekdays, so I apologize 
for leaving those questions unanswered -- As someone else surmised, the 
problem that Mr. Huntsman was having was due to the system flags 85 and 
92 being set.

> now that i know how to program (!), how do i get my program into the custom
> menu in case i clear out the vars and delete it by mistake? or perhaps copy
> it to the sd card would be better? or both?

The custom menu is held in a variable called 'CST' in the Home 
directory.  So clearing out the wrong variables in the Home directory 
would hose it there, too.  (I'll leave the creating and modification of 
the custom menu until later.)  You are right that making backups to the 
SD card (or just port 2 flash) is a good approach.  There are a lot of 
ways that you can archive data; some of them are built-in to the calc. 
Look up ARCHIVE and RESTORE in the AUR.  Also, look on www.hpcalc.org 
for "archive" to find some helpful utilities to make it easier.  My 
personal favorite method is to install Filer6, by Prof. Wolfgang 
Rautenberg, into the flash memory, and reassign the left-shift APPS key 
to use Filer6 instead of the built-in Filer.  Filer6 has a nice 
backup/restore function that makes standard-format archives to either SD 
or flash.

One thing to note is that the more things you have on your SD card, the 
longer it takes for the calc to turn on.  So I usually just keep the SD 
card tucked in the battery compartment when I'm not using it.

> again, thanks for the great example dave. it shows up just how pitiful the
> documentation is. i've been using hp calcs since the hp55 but i seem to have
> to re-learn simple operations weekly on the 50g.

Yes.  I'd really, really love the same kind of pocket reference the 
HP-41 had.  Of course, the 50G has many, many times the functions that 
the 41 had, which is certainly part of the reason that no such document 
exists.  I have an HP-49G (not a HP-49G+) also, and it has a pocket ref, 
but it fails on many levels, which underscores the difficulty.


-- 
Dave Boyd
"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall
  like a house of cards. Checkmate."  -Capt. Zapp Brannigan, D.O.O.P.

tks for the reply, dave. i spent several idle hours at work on the hpcalc.org page and did indeed install filer6 although i have not yet figured out how to

Guy Teague wrote:
> tks for the reply, dave. i spent several idle hours at work on the
> hpcalc.org page and did indeed install filer6 although i have not yet
> figured out how to assign it in place of the regular filer. the hp method
> seemed daunting, but an app i downloaded in hopes of easing the process of
> keystroke reassignment, 'keyman', was even more daunting. i could not follow
> the example in the author's readme, so have temporarily abandoned it,
> although it would be nice to assign keys as double clicks or long clicks and
> leave the default assignments alone.

<grin>  Yes, I'm afraid you have some work ahead of you in learning how 
the Hp-50G does things.  When designing an 'interface', designers must 
choose between "easy to learn" and "easy to use", the difference being 
that "easy to learn" interfaces provide much more help, and many more 
cues to the novice; they provide helpful prompts and a consistent, 
single method for accomplishing a goal.  Whereas, "easy to use" 
interfaces usually provide far less help, but are very quick to use 
after mastery has been achieved, are more efficient, usually offer more 
possibilities, and often provide several ways to accomplish a particular 
goal.  The HP-50G's interface is heavily weighted to the latter end of 
the scale.  This is partly historical (they attempted to provide great 
functionality on minimal hardware, and thus had no room for "help") and 
partly a design philosophy.

Assigning a key is pretty simply at the core.  Every possible keystroke 
has a number, which includes the position of the key and the state of 
all the modifier keys like ALPHA or LEFT SHIFT.  There's also a 
difference between pressing a shift key and letting go, and holding a 
shift key down while pressing another key.  All of these can be assigned 
independently, so one key can do nine different things out of the box, 
depending on shift state.  That means you can make your calc very easy 
to use, by assigning every task you have to a single keystroke, but hard 
to learn (or remember, even with a cheat sheet).  As it comes from the 
box, most of the key-hold combos are unassigned, so the they default to 
being the same as the un-held key.

Try this.  We'll assign Filer6 to the LS-HOLD-APPS key.  That way, we 
can use the regular Filer by pressing LS (Left-Shift), letting go, and 
pressing APPS; or we can use Filer6 by hold the LS key and pressing APPS.

The APPS key is number '21'.  That's row 2, column 1.  the default shift 
state is '.1', no shift. The left shift is '.2', the right shift is 
'.3', the ALPHA key is '.4'.  So the left-shifted APPS key is '21.2'. 
"Filer" is assigned to that by default.  On my calc, << 2:Filer6 EVAL >> 
is assigned there.  The left-shift-hold-APPS keystroke is '21.21' (a '1' 
  in the hundredths place means "held").  To assign Filer6 to the 
LS-Held-APPS key, we need a program that runs Filer6 from wherever we 
put it.  If it's in the HOME directory, << Filer6 >> is enough.  If it's 
in Flash, like mine, you need a program like the one I have, << 2:Filer6 
EVAL >>.  Make the shortest program you can make that runs Filer6, and 
put it on the stack.  Then put 21.21 on the stack.  Then use the ALPHA 
keys to type "ASN" , which take a program and a key number and assigns 
the program to the key.

For any of these non-default assigned keystrokes to work, the "User 
Keyboard" flag must be set.  That flag is indicated by a small indicator 
in the middle of the second line down on the display, which will be 
either blank, '1US', or 'USR'.  To toggle the state, use the left-shift 
ALPHA key.  Press that once, and '1US' appears; press it again, and 
'USR' appears; press it again, and it goes blank.  Try that.  When 
you're done, leave it in 'USR'.  ('1US' means USR for one keystroke, 
then blank.  Bah!)  Now try the LS-HOLD-APPS key.  It should run Filer6. 
  Yay!

KEYMAN is pretty neat, and I use it, but you don't need it until you've 
run out of keys to assign to programs.  The way it works is, you make a 
program, and stick it on the stack, just like we did above, to assign it 
to a key.  Then you make another program and put it on the stack also. 
Then, with the KEYMAN menu, you press either 'IfL' or 'IfD'.  Those take 
both programs, and combine them into one program, which also includes 
some code to detect a long-held key or double-tapped key (depending on 
whether you chose 'IfL' or 'IfD'.  Then you assign that program to a key 
in the normal way, and now left-shift-held-APPS and left-shift-held-APPS 
-held-longer do different things. You have just doubled (or more) the 
number of possible keystrokes.  I think that with various combinations 
you can make one key do 21 different things.  But who could remember them?

<snip>
> what i was really looking for on the site was some way to consolidate all my
> programs. they are scattered among vars, flash, library and apps. surely
> there is some way to run everything i want to have handy from one menu using
> aliases if necessary? i found a program called 'appman' (i think written by
> the same inscrutable author of 'keyman') which was the most frustrating app
> that i installed. basically the scanty documentation promised there was a
> way to rearrange the apps menu, to hide and add your own apps. but the only
> command for this program was called 'info' which yielded a list of variables
> and never told you how to manipulate any of them. what a tease! [g]

Heh!  I use this one, too.  When I first read the docs, they were 
inscrutable.  Then I became more comfortable with the calc, learning how 
to program it, and especially how to manipulate lists.  Then with that 
experience, I re-read the doc, and suddenly it was clear; setting up 
APPSMAN is all list management, and docs assumed I knew how to do that, 
since it was central to knowing how to use the calc effectively anyway. 
  The language of the calc is RPL, Reverse Polish Lisp, and lists are 
the key to Lisp.

Before you customize your calc much more than what I've shown, you will 
probably want to become really familiar with all of the ways it does 
things.  Read the AUR.  Read the various little PDFs.  There's no 
substitute.  At first, it won't be very easy, but once you get your 
around the 'HP Way', it becomes much easier.

-- 
Dave Boyd
"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall
  like a house of cards. Checkmate."  -Capt. Zapp Brannigan, D.O.O.P.

can t tell you how much i appreciate you taking the time to do this dave. if you write a book you ll have at least one sale assured. i ll send a deposit! ... 

--- In 50g@yahoogroups.com, "Guy Teague" <accts@...> wrote:

> yay indeed! with a hiphiphurrah!
> 
> i even went one step further and assigned the system filer to the 
held key
> and filer6 to the 'leftshift files' key since i much prefer filer6 
but want
> to have the original around. now i'll just have to remember that 
'usr' icon
> since i've never paid any attention to it previously. i guess the 
trigger
> will be that i'll get the system filer instead of filer6 if its not 
set.

Hi Guy.
Sorry if I jump in, but I have at least for a couple of reasons.

First, I want to agree with your and congratulate myself with Dave 
for his thorough, well-written and helpful posts - thanks Dave!

Second, if you want your 50g to start with the USR mode ON, then all 
you have to do is save a program like:
\<< -62 SF \>>
into a variable that you will name 'STARTUP' into the HOMe directory.
By doing that, at every warmstart (i.e. [ON]+[F3]) the STARTUP 
variable will be evaluated and the -62 flag set (i.e., USR mode 
turned on).
By the way, you can see that you're able to have your 50G do what you 
want by putting anything you like into the STARTUP var.... ;-)
Hope this helps.
Best regards.
Giancarlo

hi giancarlo: i indeed was going to ask that very question when i figured out that my usr mode did not survive a warm reset. but i had remembered seeing some

Guy Teague wrote:
> can't tell you how much i appreciate you taking the time to do this dave. if
> you write a book you'll have at least one sale assured. i'll send a deposit!

When I first got my HP-49G+, I had no idea of how to do these things. 
So I started lurking on Usenet in the comp.sys.hp48 group.  The people 
there are (for the most part) very knowledgeable, and are very willing 
share that knowledge, although of course you have to put up with a small 
amount of the usual Usenet hooey, trolls and such, who are less 
prevalent than in other groups but not entirely absent.  I read that 
group, played with the calc (which is essential), and printed and read 
the most important docs, which are the User Manual and Advanced User 
Reference.  Now, my knowledge is tiny beside some of the others, 
particularly the regulars on comp.sys.hp48, but I know enough to be 
helpful here, and my enthusiasm hasn't run out yet, so I can help...

<snip>
> i even went one step further and assigned the system filer to the held key
> and filer6 to the 'leftshift files' key since i much prefer filer6 but want
> to have the original around. now i'll just have to remember that 'usr' icon
> since i've never paid any attention to it previously. i guess the trigger
> will be that i'll get the system filer instead of filer6 if its not set.

In my case, Filer6 is assigned to the regular key, and if I want the 
regular Filer, I could just unset user mode.  (I have a program called 
FMAN.BIN assigned to the held key, but I shouldn't really have done 
that, since I use it so rarely.)

<snip>
> speaking of making it easy for the user, the most useful app i found in my
> digging was called 'formo' by dante camargo who is so good a programmer that
> even his spanish-only programs such as 'recta' and 'libkit' are easier to
> use than 99% of the english language programs. and i don't speak a word of
> spanish.

(goes and looks)  Yes, that does seem like a very useful piece of 
software, and quite "easy to learn".  I myself don't like it much as it 
stands, since it doesn't really behave like a "normal" HP program, and 
provides far too much "help" I don't really want.  It's also reliant on 
changing the state of several flags, which it leaves changed when I use 
the standard ON key to cancel out of it.

> anyway, since i'll be using formo constantly, i resent having to dig into
> the library for it, especially since i have yet to find a way to safely and
> easily rearrange the items in the library directory in order to anchor it as
> the first selection. that's why i was hoping i could use appman to put this
> program into the apps list. (btw: thought i'd mention that utool installs
> itself into apps automatically, the only app i've yet installed that did
> that).

Well, you could in fact use APPMAN for that.  Or you could assign it to 
a key.

> so how do i address a library file whose executable is down one directory
> and execute it from an assignable key or my custom menu? i suppose i would
> have to include a 'chdir' command in the eval statement perhaps? but i'm
> even having trouble determining the exact name of the actual executable
> considering the 5-char truncation.

You're correct, essentially.  I'll go stick FORMO in my calc in my 
HOME/Misc directory...  Hmm, it's a library, and therefore doesn't 
really belong there.  Instead, I'll put it in my Flash memory, port 2. 
I'll just use Filer6 to move it to Flash, done.  I reboot using ON-C to 
automatically attach it.  I press the CAT key (RS-SYMB), then ALPHA-F, 
and scroll down to see that the command is FORMOS.  OK.  So, I can make 
a program << FORMOS >> to attach to a key.  What key?  Maybe the EQW 
key, with the RS held?  That currently makes a set of tickmarks I don't 
use much, so it seems reasonable.  OK, row 4, col 3, held RS, so that's 
43.31, then ASN.  Done.

To execute a program for deeper within your directory structure, you 
could make a program like this:

<< PUSH HOME Misc FMAN.BIN EVAL POP >>

PUSH saves a copy of the current flags and directory.

HOME changes to the HOME directory.

Misc changes to the Misc subdirectory, if you have one, and you are in HOME.

FMAN.BIN EVAL executes FMAN.BIN.

POP restores the saved flags and directory from the previous PUSH, so we 
go back to where we were before changing to HOME/Misc.

I can also type PUSH, and then modify my STARTUP program to say << POP 
PUSH >>, so that whenever I start my calc it puts my flags back the way 
I had them before the previous PUSH.


-- 
Dave Boyd
"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall
  like a house of cards. Checkmate."  -Capt. Zapp Brannigan, D.O.O.P.

sorry about the mix up on hpuseredit giancarlo. i must have seen your reply in the hpmuseum forum and got you mixed up. to live in italy, not so bad indeed!

... you know, i noticed that my flag states were not being left alone, but i had installed so many apps to try at once that i had not gotten around to tracking

had some spare time tonight at work so i spent it consolidating all the good info that dave supplied and used the tip by giancarlo. so, after one complete set

--- In 50g@yahoogroups.com, "Guy Teague" <accts@...> wrote:
Hi Guy!

>
> sorry about the mix up on hpuseredit giancarlo. i must have seen 
your reply
> in the hpmuseum forum and got you mixed up.

Please, don't get me wrong: I got your mix up as a compliment, as I 
really *would have liked* to be the author :-)


> i don't know if you are old enough to remember, but the red brigade 
left
> premier aldo moro's body in a station wagon only a few kilometers 
from where
> i lived on the road between naples and rome.

Yup, I'm 41 now, and I can still remember well those days between 
march and may 1978....

> what's the old
> phrase: 'vedere napoli, e morte'? i'm not even an immigrant and i 
feel that
> way.

:-) The exact phrase is "vedi Napoli e poi muori", and its literal 
translation would sound like "see Naples and then you can die" - 
despite the seeming gallows humour, it simply states that one has to 
see Naples at least once in his life...

Take care.
Giancarlo

P.S.: for the other contributors: I apologize for the off-topic 
discussion, but I've always thought forums like places where, as in a 
pub in front of a glass of beer, people friendly share their common 
interests and curiosities...