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Favorite clock frequency?

Favorite clock frequency?

2002-05-23 by Scott Newell

Just going through some old notes, and I noticed that at one time I
calculated 22.118400 MHz as a nice number: it allows you to run the UARTs
(SCI and TPU) at all the standard baud rates with no error.  Using the PLL,
it can be generated 38.400 kHz rock.  38.4 kHz also gives you a even 100 Hz
PIT rate, something 32.768 kHz can't.

So why does everyone seem to use 32.768 kHz?  Availability?

(For that matter, my next '332 design will probably use a 4.9152 MHz and a
'4060, instead of a low frequency tuning fork rock.)


newell

RE: [68300] Favorite clock frequency?

2002-05-23 by Melear Charles-rdph40

Scott,
 
The input frequency range for the MC68332 is 25 - 50 KHz.  So, just go right ahead and us a 38.4 KHz crystal and enjoy life.
 
Now, remember, regardless of what crystal you use, you must limit the system clock frequency to what ever the part is guaranteed for.  For instance, if you buy an MC68332CFC20, you cannot run the system clock greater than 20 MHz, or 25 MHz  for a CFC25.
 
The reason that many people use the 32.768 KHz crystal is that it is a power of 2 (actually 2 to the 15th power).  Thus, if you have a 2E15 divider inside the part, you get 1 second ticks.  That's why this frequency crystal is many times referred to as a "watch" crystal.  Because this crystal is used in clocks, it enjoys very high volume, many manufacturers and good availability.
 
The big down side of 32.768 KHz crystals is that they are hard to get in automotive grade environments and temperature ranges.
 
So, if the 100 Hz tick mark is important to you and keeping "time of day" is not particularly important, use the 38.4 KHz crystal.  
 
It all depends upon your system needs.
 
Regards,
 
Charlie
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Newell [mailto:newell@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 10:47 PM
To: 68300@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [68300] Favorite clock frequency?


Just going through some old notes, and I noticed that at one time I
calculated 22.118400 MHz as a nice number: it allows you to run the UARTs
(SCI and TPU) at all the standard baud rates with no error.  Using the PLL,
it can be generated 38.400 kHz rock.  38.4 kHz also gives you a even 100 Hz
PIT rate, something 32.768 kHz can't.

So why does everyone seem to use 32.768 kHz?  Availability?

(For that matter, my next '332 design will probably use a 4.9152 MHz and a
'4060, instead of a low frequency tuning fork rock.)


newell



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Re: Favorite clock frequency?

2002-05-23 by Aaron J. Grier

On Wed, May 22, 2002 at 10:46:57PM -0500, Scott Newell wrote:
> Just going through some old notes, and I noticed that at one time I
> calculated 22.118400 MHz as a nice number: it allows you to run the
> UARTs (SCI and TPU) at all the standard baud rates with no error.
> Using the PLL, it can be generated 38.400 kHz rock.  38.4 kHz also
> gives you a even 100 Hz PIT rate, something 32.768 kHz can't.

the next sweet point for baud rates after 22.118400 is 25.80480, which
is slightly above spec for the 25MHz part, isn't it?

with 32.768kHz you hit a similar spot at 22.020096, which gives < 1% for
all standard baud rates.

charles, what's the word on slightly overclocking these processors to
hit the sweet spots?

> So why does everyone seem to use 32.768 kHz?  Availability?

it's the one listed in the motorola literature, so it gets used by
default.  :)

-- 
  Aaron J. Grier  |   Frye Electronics, Tigard, OR   |  aaron@...

RE: [68300] Favorite clock frequency?

2002-05-23 by Scott Newell

>
> The input frequency range for the MC68332 is 25 - 50 KHz.  So, just go right
> ahead and us a 38.4 KHz crystal and enjoy life.


Yeah, I had double-checked that before I made the suggestion...didn't want to
look like an idiot in public (at least too often).  ;-)


>
>  Now, remember, regardless of what crystal you use, you must limit the
system
> clock frequency to what ever the part is guaranteed for.  For instance, if
> you buy an MC68332CFC20, you cannot run the system clock greater than 20
MHz,
> or 25 MHz  for a CFC25.


As part of a built in self test I run on our incoming boards, I ramp the
PLL up
one notch at a time until it won't lock.  I usually get to about 45-47 MHz, at
room temperature, running from external memory.  It does better when I
blast it
with cold spray, and I'd never do it in production--it's just a fun little
test
I threw in.  Anyone else do any overclocking experiments?


>
>  The reason that many people use the 32.768 KHz crystal is that it is a
power
> of 2 (actually 2 to the 15th power).  Thus, if you have a 2E15 divider
inside
> the part, you get 1 second ticks.  That's why this frequency crystal is many
> times referred to as a "watch" crystal.  Because this crystal is used in
> clocks, it enjoys very high volume, many manufacturers and good
availability.


Agreed.  I've never run a 1 Hz ticker--something like 100 Hz seems more useful
for a low-end 32 bit controller.


>
> The big down side of 32.768 KHz crystals is that they are hard to get in
> automotive grade environments and temperature ranges.


What about startup-time and mechanical fragility?  You've still got those
problems with the 38.4kHz too.  Maybe a better question--what's the
_advantage_
of a low frequency tuning fork rock?


newell

RE: [68300] Favorite clock frequency?

2002-05-23 by Melear Charles-rdph40

Scott,
A couple of things here. First of all, 32.768 KHZ crystals are made in such high volume that they enjoy "economies of scale". That is, they are one of the least expensive crystals you can get.
You did bring up two good points about start up time and mechanical stability.
The mechanical stability is a real problem if you are designing something for the automotive market. Heat and vibration are really hard on the 32.768 Khz tuning fork. What we finally did at Motorola was to go to a 4.1 Mhz (or so) crystal and then put a "divide by 32768" on the extal input. Then a high frequency crystal could be used and we still had the 32.768 KHz clock going to the PLL.
High frequency crystals are readily available in automotive grade.
Also, low frequency crystals have relatively long start up times and it is important that the series resistor in the crystal circuit be properly sized. This is a function of the crystal, not the microcontroller.
NOW, READ THIS.
On MC68300 and MC68HC16 products, there are two types of Lock Detect circuits. They require different external XFC filter circuits. On the MC68332, the only mask set in production is J30C and it requires the 3-component or high-stability XFC filter. Ditto for the MC68331 where J33C is the only mask set in production.
If you don't know what I am talking about here, send me another email and I will give you the full storey. However, this external XFC filter business is very important. You have to use the right filter. So, if you get with me and tell me what part you are using, I can tell you which mask sets require which filter.
Regards,
Charlie
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Newell [mailto:newell@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 12:43 PM
To: 68300@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [68300] Favorite clock frequency?


>
> The input frequency range for the MC68332 is 25 - 50 KHz. So, just go right
> ahead and us a 38.4 KHz crystal and enjoy life.


Yeah, I had double-checked that before I made the suggestion...didn't want to
look like an idiot in public (at least too often). ;-)


>
> Now, remember, regardless of what crystal you use, you must limit the
system
> clock frequency to what ever the part is guaranteed for. For instance, if
> you buy an MC68332CFC20, you cannot run the system clock greater than 20
MHz,
> or 25 MHz for a CFC25.


As part of a built in self test I run on our incoming boards, I ramp the
PLL up
one notch at a time until it won't lock. I usually get to about 45-47 MHz, at
room temperature, running from external memory. It does better when I
blast it
with cold spray, and I'd never do it in production--it's just a fun little
test
I threw in. Anyone else do any overclocking experiments?


>
> The reason that many people use the 32.768 KHz crystal is that it is a
power
> of 2 (actually 2 to the 15th power). Thus, if you have a 2E15 divider
inside
> the part, you get 1 second ticks. That's why this frequency crystal is many
> times referred to as a "watch" crystal. Because this crystal is used in
> clocks, it enjoys very high volume, many manufacturers and good
availability.


Agreed. I've never run a 1 Hz ticker--something like 100 Hz seems more useful
for a low-end 32 bit controller.


>
> The big down side of 32.768 KHz crystals is that they are hard to get in
> automotive grade environments and temperature ranges.


What about startup-time and mechanical fragility? You've still got those
problems with the 38.4kHz too. Maybe a better question--what's the
_advantage_
of a low frequency tuning fork rock?


newell


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RE: [68300] Favorite clock frequency?

2002-05-23 by Dr. Martin J. Burns

Charles,
I am working with an LC302. Can you please provide the guidance on the XFC filter circuits?
Thanks,
Marty Burns
-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Melear Charles-rdph40 [mailto:charles.melear@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 3:05 PM
To: '68300@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [68300] Favorite clock frequency?

Scott,
A couple of things here. First of all, 32.768 KHZ crystals are made in such high volume that they enjoy "economies of scale". That is, they are one of the least expensive crystals you can get.
You did bring up two good points about start up time and mechanical stability.
The mechanical stability is a real problem if you are designing something for the automotive market. Heat and vibration are really hard on the 32.768 Khz tuning fork. What we finally did at Motorola was to go to a 4.1 Mhz (or so) crystal and then put a "divide by 32768" on the extal input. Then a high frequency crystal could be used and we still had the 32.768 KHz clock going to the PLL.
High frequency crystals are readily available in automotive grade.
Also, low frequency crystals have relatively long start up times and it is important that the series resistor in the crystal circuit be properly sized. This is a function of the crystal, not the microcontroller.
NOW, READ THIS.
On MC68300 and MC68HC16 products, there are two types of Lock Detect circuits. They require different external XFC filter circuits. On the MC68332, the only mask set in production is J30C and it requires the 3-component or high-stability XFC filter. Ditto for the MC68331 where J33C is the only mask set in production.
If you don't know what I am talking about here, send me another email and I will give you the full storey. However, this external XFC filter business is very important. You have to use the right filter. So, if you get with me and tell me what part you are using, I can tell you which mask sets require which filter.
Regards,
Charlie
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Newell [mailto:newell@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 12:43 PM
To: 68300@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [68300] Favorite clock frequency?


>
> The input frequency range for the MC68332 is 25 - 50 KHz. So, just go right
> ahead and us a 38.4 KHz crystal and enjoy life.


Yeah, I had double-checked that before I made the suggestion...didn't want to
look like an idiot in public (at least too often). ;-)


>
> Now, remember, regardless of what crystal you use, you must limit the
system
> clock frequency to what ever the part is guaranteed for. For instance, if
> you buy an MC68332CFC20, you cannot run the system clock greater than 20
MHz,
> or 25 MHz for a CFC25.


As part of a built in self test I run on our incoming boards, I ramp the
PLL up
one notch at a time until it won't lock. I usually get to about 45-47 MHz, at
room temperature, running from external memory. It does better when I
blast it
with cold spray, and I'd never do it in production--it's just a fun little
test
I threw in. Anyone else do any overclocking experiments?


>
> The reason that many people use the 32.768 KHz crystal is that it is a
power
> of 2 (actually 2 to the 15th power). Thus, if you have a 2E15 divider
inside
> the part, you get 1 second ticks. That's why this frequency crystal is many
> times referred to as a "watch" crystal. Because this crystal is used in
> clocks, it enjoys very high volume, many manufacturers and good
availability.


Agreed. I've never run a 1 Hz ticker--something like 100 Hz seems more useful
for a low-end 32 bit controller.


>
> The big down side of 32.768 KHz crystals is that they are hard to get in
> automotive grade environments and temperature ranges.


What about startup-time and mechanical fragility? You've still got those
problems with the 38.4kHz too. Maybe a better question--what's the
_advantage_
of a low frequency tuning fork rock?


newell


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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
68300-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
68300-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

RE: [68300] Re: Favorite clock frequency?

2002-05-23 by Melear Charles-rdph40

Hello everyone,
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron J. Grier [mailto:aaron@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 12:43 PM
To: 68300@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [68300] Re: Favorite clock frequency?


On Wed, May 22, 2002 at 10:46:57PM -0500, Scott Newell wrote:
> Just going through some old notes, and I noticed that at one time I
> calculated 22.118400 MHz as a nice number: it allows you to run the
> UARTs (SCI and TPU) at all the standard baud rates with no error.
> Using the PLL, it can be generated 38.400 kHz rock.  38.4 kHz also
> gives you a even 100 Hz PIT rate, something 32.768 kHz can't.
[Melear Charles-rdph40] 
 
Well, actually, the spec for a 25 MHz part is 25.7 MHz so you are not overclocking by much.  I think you can take a chance on 0.1 MHz. 

the next sweet point for baud rates after 22.118400 is 25.80480, which
is slightly above spec for the 25MHz part, isn't it?

with 32.768kHz you hit a similar spot at 22.020096, which gives < 1% for
all standard baud rates.

charles, what's the word on slightly overclocking these processors to
hit the sweet spots?

> So why does everyone seem to use 32.768 kHz?  Availability?
[Melear Charles-rdph40] 
 
The 32.768 KHz crystal is widely used in watches.  It is extremely common.  It is also a power of 2. 

it's the one listed in the motorola literature, so it gets used by
default.  :)

-- 
  Aaron J. Grier  |   Frye Electronics, Tigard, OR   |  aaron@...


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