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BAD NEWS

BAD NEWS

2003-02-14 by DMANX@talk21.com

I went to the sounds expo in London and heard some bad news from yamaha and Kenton about the future of the sw1000xg and Kenton plugstation.
The sw has now been dicontinued, and there are no plans for a replacement, as things are going more towards the Motiff products. The kenton plugstation is being discontinued due to lack of demand, there for  the motiff will be the host device but with limitations of having only 2 cards.
Hmmmm must be the bad economy.
Regards
Dmanx.



--------------------
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Re: [AN1x] BAD NEWS

2003-02-14 by elektro dan

i guess we can forget about sw1000xg, plg boards "OPT"
support for cubase!

we must protest this! 

if they discontinue the sw1000xg we must demand that
they replace it with a sw2000xg!

they can't leave is hanging like this!

how can we make an on-line petition?


elektro dan.


--- DMANX@... wrote:
> 
> I went to the sounds expo in London and heard some
> bad news from yamaha and Kenton about the future of
> the sw1000xg and Kenton plugstation.
> The sw has now been dicontinued, and there are no
> plans for a replacement, as things are going more
> towards the Motiff products. The kenton plugstation
> is being discontinued due to lack of demand, there
> for  the motiff will be the host device but with
> limitations of having only 2 cards.
> Hmmmm must be the bad economy.
> Regards
> Dmanx.
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------
> talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the
> net at http://www.talk21.com
> 
> 


=====
============================
           DAN C.

      Toronto, Canada  

email> elektro_dan@...
============================

__________________________________________________
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Re: [AN1x] BAD NEWS

2003-02-14 by Peter Korsten

On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 20:58:05 -0800 (PST) elektro dan wrote:

> i guess we can forget about sw1000xg, plg boards "OPT"
> support for cubase!
> 
> we must protest this! 
> 
> if they discontinue the sw1000xg we must demand that
> they replace it with a sw2000xg!
> 
> they can't leave is hanging like this!
> 
> how can we make an on-line petition?

You must be joking. If anything, the SW1000XG has had a longer shelf life 
than many a Yamaha product. I have an AN1x and an EX5S, both of which
went out of production within two or three years after they first came to 
market. My 01V lasted only a bit longer.

I'm not saying that it's "right" or "fair", but these are business
decisions, which are never "right" or "fair" in the eyes of the consumer. 
Starting a petition is a total waste of time.

- Peter
-- 

--------------------------------------------------------------
The delights of love are revealed in a kiss. (Brought to you by Baci)

Re: [AN1x] BAD NEWS

2003-02-14 by Bruce Wahler

Hi Dan,

There are probably dozens of ways to do an online petition; one way would be to start a new Yahoo Group specifically to collect petitioners (members).  However, I'm afraid that I side with Peter on this one:  Starting a petition is probably futile.

First off, the musical economy is down, and the VA market is pretty well saturated at this point.  While Yamaha has made fine VA synths, there's nothing incredibly unique about their VA offerings compared to the competition.  I'm not saying that the AN1x, AN200, etc. are bad products -- I am very fond of my AN1x, and would probably try to replace it with another one if it was stolen -- but for the most part, people either like the Yamaha sound, or they like someone else's sound better (Waldorf, NI, Nord, etc,).  There are players who own several VAs including a Yamaha, but that's probably the exception, not the norm, if we look at all keyboard players, collectively.

OTOH, the Motif is garnering a lot of positive press for Yamaha; probably more than anything they've produced since the DX-7 days.  It really doesn't do anything unique -- it competes with a horde of ROMplers to provide pianos, strings, brass, etc -- but it does it better than most of the competition.  To convince Yamaha to take resources away from this area, you'd need more than a few hundred signatures on a petition.  You'd either need tens (hundreds?) of thousands of signatures, or you'd need proof that every single one a couple of thousand signatures was actually planning to buy an SW product, but "bad ole" Yamaha took away their opportunity.

Consider your entire collection of friends and associates:  How many of them even know what the sw1000xg is?  Of those, how many of them would say, "Yeah, that's a nice product, but my {insert brand here} is better," or something?  How many of them like the sound, but feel they have enough VA synths/modules/programs already and aren't in the market for an sw2000xg?  How many already own the sw1000xg, and have no plans to upgrade?  Take away those people, and what you have left is what Yamaha REALLY cares about -- the potential customers they are casting aside.  It's probably not as big a group as you wish.

For all kinds of reasons, keyboards have followed the computer and video game model:  lots of short-lived products, each with features that leapfrog the last generation.  By comparison your guitar, bass, drum, sax, etc. playing friends all buy in mature marketplaces where the products evolve slowly over a period of years.  No one is clamoring for a BETTER Stratocaster; they just want ANOTHER Stratocaster.  Why did our market change?  Lots of reasons, but part of it was the players' constant search for something new and better, which is still pretty much alive.  Unless that situation changes, keyboard products are destined to have short lives.

Regards,

-BW

--
Bruce Wahler
Ashby Solutions\ufffd   http://music.ashbysolutions.com
978.386.7389  voice/fax
bruce@...

Re: [AN1x] BAD NEWS

2003-02-14 by DMANX@talk21.com

They have kept this hush hush! like they did dith the dsp card and an/dx200 synths.Its not publicised in any site or mag, But they will continue to offer support.
Regards
Dmanx.
> On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 20:58:05 -0800 (PST) elektro dan wrote:
>
> i guess we can forget about sw1000xg, plg boards "OPT"
> support for cubase!
> 
> we must protest this! 
> 
> if they discontinue the sw1000xg we must demand that
> they replace it with a sw2000xg!
> 
> they can't leave is hanging like this!
> 
> how can we make an on-line petition?
>
>You must be joking. If anything, the SW1000XG has had a longer shelf life 
>than many a Yamaha product. I have an AN1x and an EX5S, both of which
>went out of production within two or three years after they first came to 
>market. My 01V lasted only a bit longer.
>
>I'm not saying that it's "right" or "fair", but these are business
>decisions, which are never "right" or "fair" in the eyes of the consumer. 
>Starting a petition is a total waste of time.
>
>- Peter
>-- 
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>The delights of love are revealed in a kiss. (Brought to you by Baci)
>
>Community email addresses:
>  Post message: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
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>
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> 
>
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--------------------
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Re: [AN1x] BAD NEWS

2003-02-14 by Peter Korsten

On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:21:52 GMT+00:00 DMANX@... wrote:

> They have kept this hush hush! like they did dith the dsp card and
> an/dx200 synths.Its not publicised in any site or mag, But they will
> continue to offer support.

While not wanting to stretch the issue needlessly further, this is still
not different from any other Yamaha product, and musical products or even 
just 'products' in general. At some point, they go out of production, and 
when stocks run out, you can't buy the item anymore.

I had my doubts about support for out-of-production Yamaha products, but
in fact they created an mLAN interface for the EX series long after it
went out of production. They're more likely to make a loss on it than
anything else. Now that is what I call service.

- Peter
-- 

--------------------------------------------------------------
The delights of love are revealed in a kiss. (Brought to you by Baci)

Re: [AN1x] BAD NEWS

2003-02-14 by elektro dan

--- Bruce Wahler <bruce@...> wrote:
> Hi Dan,
> 
> There are probably dozens of ways to do an online
> petition; one way would be to start a new Yahoo
> Group specifically to collect petitioners (members).
>  However, I'm afraid that I side with Peter on this
> one:  Starting a petition is probably futile.
> 


your right bruce, i'm just soo sad that it's out of
production. i really wished that they would of come
out with OPT editors that would seamlessly integrate
the sw1000xg and the plugin boards into cubase before
they 
pulled it out of production.

i hope dmanx is right when he said they are still
working on this (hush-hush style).

ma by we can petition about this issue? is this also
futile? we would have to petition to both steinberg to
adopt the OPT standard and to yamaha to make OPT
editors for the sw1000xg and the plugin boards.

i don't know? should we start a petition for this?


elektro dan.

=====
============================
           DAN C.

      Toronto, Canada  

email> elektro_dan@...
============================

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
http://shopping.yahoo.com

Re: [AN1x] BAD NEWS

2003-02-14 by DMANX@talk21.com

Yamaha will still support the card, but production will stop. I guess its had its days, plenty of better audio cards out there now. And everything moving to softsynths and motif range I guess its a business idea. I am shocked when I spoke to kenton about the plugstation as well. They seem to be keeping their distance from yamaha now.They are not prepared to talk about improving issues. I had a chat with kenton, they were hoping for a plugstation2 which could feature real time controls and effects almost like an host device similar to an/dx200....but not now.
Motiff is the way forward with the plg technology.But will it offer 24bit analogue an digital output like the plugstation.
Regards
DMANX.

> --- Bruce Wahler <bruce@...> wrote:
> Hi Dan,
> 
> There are probably dozens of ways to do an online
> petition; one way would be to start a new Yahoo
> Group specifically to collect petitioners (members).
>  However, I'm afraid that I side with Peter on this
> one:  Starting a petition is probably futile.
> 
>
>
>your right bruce, i'm just soo sad that it's out of
>production. i really wished that they would of come
>out with OPT editors that would seamlessly integrate
>the sw1000xg and the plugin boards into cubase before
>they 
>pulled it out of production.
>
>i hope dmanx is right when he said they are still
>working on this (hush-hush style).
>
>ma by we can petition about this issue? is this also
>futile? we would have to petition to both steinberg to
>adopt the OPT standard and to yamaha to make OPT
>editors for the sw1000xg and the plugin boards.
>
>i don't know? should we start a petition for this?
>
>
>elektro dan.
>
>=====
>============================
>           DAN C.
>
>      Toronto, Canada  
>
>email> elektro_dan@...
>============================
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
><a Target='_new' Href='http://talk21.btopenworld.com/redirect.html?http://shopping.yahoo.com'>http://shopping.yahoo.com</a>
>
>Community email addresses:
>  Post message: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
>  Subscribe:    AN1x-list-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  Unsubscribe:  AN1x-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  List owner:   AN1x-list-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
>Shortcut URL to this page:
>   <a Target='_new' Href='http://talk21.btopenworld.com/redirect.html?http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AN1x-list'>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AN1x-list</a>
> 
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to <a Target='_new' Href='http://talk21.btopenworld.com/redirect.html?http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/'>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/</a>



--------------------
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Re: [AN1x] BAD NEWS

2003-02-15 by Jon <jondl_2000@yahoo.com>

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, elektro dan <elektro_dan@y...> 
wrote:
> ma by we can petition about this issue? is this also
> futile? we would have to petition to both steinberg to
> adopt the OPT standard and to yamaha to make OPT
> editors for the sw1000xg and the plugin boards.
> 
> i don't know? should we start a petition for this?
> 
> 

Well, for starters - this is the AN1x list, not the SW1KXG User 
Group. While there undoubtedly are a good many Cubase / SW1KXG users 
on this list there are also many users of other platforms who are 
unconcerned with the issues you've presented. You're probably not 
reaching a large percentage of your target audience - on this list 
alone - who might be interested in joining your campaign. 

I have no doubt that Steinberg and Yamaha are always interested in 
hearing from their user base in regards to what features they would 
like to see implemented in current or future product offerings. If 
*you* decide *you* would like to head up such a campaign my adivce is:

a) determine what your mission statement will be. Remember, 
K.I.S.S.  - Keep It Simple, Stupid ;-) Try to stay positive to 
reflect how your goal(s) will be beneficial to all involved. You're 
probably going to end up with a wish list that is unachievable unless 
*someone* takes charge and says '_This_ is our goal!'

b) be prepared to promote your effort. Prior to promoting your 
campaign on other user groups unsolicited - in which case it might be 
dismissed as spam - I would email the list administrator(s) and 
solicit their approval and possibly their support.

c) Try and get some contact points with Yamaha and Steinberg and 
establish a rapport with them. Otherwise you're just shooting at 
windmills. I would suggest you target the administrators at 
Motifator.com and Cubase.net  Those two forums enjoy much more 
participation from the manufacturers than those of us out here in the 
wilds ;-) These people *might* be able to direct your intentions to 
somebody who will take notice.

d) exercise some patience.  Don't expect an immediate turnaround or 
success from your campaign. You might not realize any benefits at all 
but, at some point down the road perhaps Yamaha and/or Steinberg 
might introduce a product offering or software upgrade with some of 
what you hope for.

Good luck!!!

On a side note, it's a shame Kenton was unable to achieve greater 
success with the Plugstation but give them respect for making a tough 
business decision. I'm certain it is not fun for them to discontinue 
a product offering they obviously worked hard to bring to market. I 
know that Gary G. played an important role in the products 
development. It's my understanding Kenton have also discontinued 
their MIDI Retrofit kits for pre-MIDI synths too. IMO, it sounds like 
they're tightening their belts to remain competitive in the current 
market (pure specutlation on my part.)

regards,

Jon

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