Boss VF-1 Effect Processor

I am running an audio signal into the expression inputs on my VF1 I didnt expect much results but I am getting results....the effects turn on and off. Is it possible to get this signal to other things?

Hi Dustin,

I'm tempted to say RTFM, but since this board doesn't get any action, I'll bite:

The expression pedal can be used in any of the 4 Master settings' Controller Assignments.  Go the Master settings, and scroll over to the controller assignments and explore.  There are 4 of them.  Your source can be a control pedal (latch or momentary), expression pedal, or MIDI CC.  Your target can be just about ANY parameter that pertains to the algorithm you're on.  For the expression pedal, you can set the applicable range of the pedal, and the corresponding range of the parameter values it will sweep through.

Therefore, you can use an expression pedal to modulate just about any parameter however you wish.  Use your imagination!  Wah pedal?  Of course!  Volume pedal?  Natch!  Modulate the amount of reverb, amount of distortion, delay repeats, etc. etc. etc.!  The possibilities are vast!

You can also use it to turn all the effects on or off (as you witnessed), or individual effects on and off.  The possibilities are amazing, and I encourage you to get a real expression pedal and go nuts!

Ryan

--- In BossVF1@yahoogroups.com, "Dustin ." <dustin.sedlacek@...> wrote:

>
> I am running an audio signal into the expression inputs on my VF1 I didnt expect much results but I am getting results....the effects turn on and off. Is it possible to get this signal to other things?
>

Ok I did find the master settings it is one of those things that I was
somehow over looking. Now my issue is that I cannot get it to act in a
predictable way. It just keeps turning the algorithm block on and off  even
though I have set it for pitchshifter - pitch.


Again, I am feeding it with a hot audio signal so I expect it to be erratic,
but not unpredictable.



On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Ryan <rwrubleski@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Hi Dustin,
>
> I'm tempted to say RTFM, but since this board doesn't get any action, I'll
> bite:
>
> The expression pedal can be used in any of the 4 Master settings'
> Controller Assignments. Go the Master settings, and scroll over to the
> controller assignments and explore. There are 4 of them. Your source can be
> a control pedal (latch or momentary), expression pedal, or MIDI CC. Your
> target can be just about ANY parameter that pertains to the algorithm you're
> on. For the expression pedal, you can set the applicable range of the pedal,
> and the corresponding range of the parameter values it will sweep through.
>
> Therefore, you can use an expression pedal to modulate just about any
> parameter however you wish. Use your imagination! Wah pedal? Of course!
> Volume pedal? Natch! Modulate the amount of reverb, amount of distortion,
> delay repeats, etc. etc. etc.! The possibilities are vast!
>
> You can also use it to turn all the effects on or off (as you witnessed),
> or individual effects on and off. The possibilities are amazing, and I
> encourage you to get a real expression pedal and go nuts!
>
> Ryan
>
> --- In BossVF1@yahoogroups.com, "Dustin ." <dustin.sedlacek@...> wrote:
> >
> > I am running an audio signal into the expression inputs on my VF1 I didnt
> expect much results but I am getting results....the effects turn on and off.
> Is it possible to get this signal to other things?
> >
>
>  
>



-- 
Dustin Sedlacek
901-828-6801


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Since there are 4 controller assignments, make sure only 1 is On and the other 3 are Off.  This is the only way to make sure you're isolating one particular case.

While on the single active controller assignment, which you've obviously set to Expression Pedal source, try selecting different destinations and you should hear ONLY the selected destination parameter being modulated.

Ryan

--- In BossVF1@yahoogroups.com, Dustin Sedlacek <dustin.sedlacek@...> wrote:

>
> Ok I did find the master settings it is one of those things that I was
> somehow over looking. Now my issue is that I cannot get it to act in a
> predictable way. It just keeps turning the algorithm block on and off  even
> though I have set it for pitchshifter - pitch.
> 
> 
> Again, I am feeding it with a hot audio signal so I expect it to be erratic,
> but not unpredictable.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Ryan <rwrubleski@...> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > Hi Dustin,
> >
> > I'm tempted to say RTFM, but since this board doesn't get any action, I'll
> > bite:
> >
> > The expression pedal can be used in any of the 4 Master settings'
> > Controller Assignments. Go the Master settings, and scroll over to the
> > controller assignments and explore. There are 4 of them. Your source can be
> > a control pedal (latch or momentary), expression pedal, or MIDI CC. Your
> > target can be just about ANY parameter that pertains to the algorithm you're
> > on. For the expression pedal, you can set the applicable range of the pedal,
> > and the corresponding range of the parameter values it will sweep through.
> >
> > Therefore, you can use an expression pedal to modulate just about any
> > parameter however you wish. Use your imagination! Wah pedal? Of course!
> > Volume pedal? Natch! Modulate the amount of reverb, amount of distortion,
> > delay repeats, etc. etc. etc.! The possibilities are vast!
> >
> > You can also use it to turn all the effects on or off (as you witnessed),
> > or individual effects on and off. The possibilities are amazing, and I
> > encourage you to get a real expression pedal and go nuts!
> >
> > Ryan
> >
> > --- In BossVF1@yahoogroups.com, "Dustin ." <dustin.sedlacek@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I am running an audio signal into the expression inputs on my VF1 I didnt
> > expect much results but I am getting results....the effects turn on and off.
> > Is it possible to get this signal to other things?
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dustin Sedlacek
> 901-828-6801
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

You don't have a proper connection to the CTRL/EXP jack so I wouldn't expect it to do anything you actually want. I have no idea how the jack is wired, but it's dual function. You can have two footswitches via TRS cable, or expression via TRS cable. So it's expecting particular signals on that jack. The concept of using audio signals is interesting though, like a side-chained compressor. Though I believe you can do that without using CTRL/EXP at all, simply send a mono signal into INPUT L and your sidechain into INPUT R and pick an algorithm that allows a COMP that can trigger off INPUT R and I'd think it could affect the INPUT L signal. Assuming there's such a COMP in the unit. But I thought I hit on some effects that allowed you to pick the channel triggering it.

Anyway, that's a different discussion than what you're talking about.


--- In BossVF1@yahoogroups.com, Dustin Sedlacek <dustin.sedlacek@...> wrote:

>
> Ok I did find the master settings it is one of those things that I was
> somehow over looking. Now my issue is that I cannot get it to act in a
> predictable way. It just keeps turning the algorithm block on and off  even
> though I have set it for pitchshifter - pitch.
> 
> 
> Again, I am feeding it with a hot audio signal so I expect it to be erratic,
> but not unpredictable.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Ryan <rwrubleski@...> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > Hi Dustin,
> >
> > I'm tempted to say RTFM, but since this board doesn't get any action, I'll
> > bite:
> >
> > The expression pedal can be used in any of the 4 Master settings'
> > Controller Assignments. Go the Master settings, and scroll over to the
> > controller assignments and explore. There are 4 of them. Your source can be
> > a control pedal (latch or momentary), expression pedal, or MIDI CC. Your
> > target can be just about ANY parameter that pertains to the algorithm you're
> > on. For the expression pedal, you can set the applicable range of the pedal,
> > and the corresponding range of the parameter values it will sweep through.
> >
> > Therefore, you can use an expression pedal to modulate just about any
> > parameter however you wish. Use your imagination! Wah pedal? Of course!
> > Volume pedal? Natch! Modulate the amount of reverb, amount of distortion,
> > delay repeats, etc. etc. etc.! The possibilities are vast!
> >
> > You can also use it to turn all the effects on or off (as you witnessed),
> > or individual effects on and off. The possibilities are amazing, and I
> > encourage you to get a real expression pedal and go nuts!
> >
> > Ryan
> >
> > --- In BossVF1@yahoogroups.com, "Dustin ." <dustin.sedlacek@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I am running an audio signal into the expression inputs on my VF1 I didnt
> > expect much results but I am getting results....the effects turn on and off.
> > Is it possible to get this signal to other things?
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dustin Sedlacek
> 901-828-6801
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

audio controlled effects is a passion of mine...they become erratic, they
act weird and when you start using it with delays that are 100% wet, you get
glitchy buffers gone wild that are working with the source material.

I cannot get the vf1 to do this with the expression input pedals. It is
turning the algorithm block on and off, but it is not controlling the
effects how I expect it to. Perhaps I need to invert the voltage? Maybe
there isnt enough voltage coming from my matrix mixer?

can I use midi notes to control the delay time? I have a DR5 and it converts
audio into midi data. To round out the conversation I have an alesis HR16
that turns audio into midi timing info...that is a lot of fun. A boss RSD10
delay that has a controller input that accepts audio. A boss RPS10
pitchshifter that accepts audio.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry to hear it's not working for you, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.  An expression pedal is just a variable resistance (potentiometer swept with a pedal), and not a voltage source, so the input circuit is designed around this resistance delta.  Clearly the output impedance swing of the signal you're feeding it isn't in the same ballpark that the circuit can use.  This is probably a big "DUH, of course not!", but I'm no EE and only going off of my basic newb instincts.

Sadly, the VF-1 can't use Note On/Offs as control sources, only CC's.

Got anything that can convert audio to CC?

Ryan

--- In BossVF1@yahoogroups.com, Dustin Sedlacek <dustin.sedlacek@...> wrote:

>
> audio controlled effects is a passion of mine...they become erratic, they
> act weird and when you start using it with delays that are 100% wet, you get
> glitchy buffers gone wild that are working with the source material.
> 
> I cannot get the vf1 to do this with the expression input pedals. It is
> turning the algorithm block on and off, but it is not controlling the
> effects how I expect it to. Perhaps I need to invert the voltage? Maybe
> there isnt enough voltage coming from my matrix mixer?
> 
> can I use midi notes to control the delay time? I have a DR5 and it converts
> audio into midi data. To round out the conversation I have an alesis HR16
> that turns audio into midi timing info...that is a lot of fun. A boss RSD10
> delay that has a controller input that accepts audio. A boss RPS10
> pitchshifter that accepts audio.
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Bidule can convert notes to CCs ...and there is a yamaha rack thing that can
do it too but I can never remember the name of the device.

On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 10:27 PM, Ryan <rwrubleski@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Sorry to hear it's not working for you, but I suppose I shouldn't be
> surprised. An expression pedal is just a variable resistance (potentiometer
> swept with a pedal), and not a voltage source, so the input circuit is
> designed around this resistance delta. Clearly the output impedance swing of
> the signal you're feeding it isn't in the same ballpark that the circuit can
> use. This is probably a big "DUH, of course not!", but I'm no EE and only
> going off of my basic newb instincts.
>
> Sadly, the VF-1 can't use Note On/Offs as control sources, only CC's.
>
> Got anything that can convert audio to CC?
>
> Ryan
>
>
> --- In BossVF1@yahoogroups.com, Dustin Sedlacek <dustin.sedlacek@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > audio controlled effects is a passion of mine...they become erratic, they
> > act weird and when you start using it with delays that are 100% wet, you
> get
> > glitchy buffers gone wild that are working with the source material.
> >
> > I cannot get the vf1 to do this with the expression input pedals. It is
> > turning the algorithm block on and off, but it is not controlling the
> > effects how I expect it to. Perhaps I need to invert the voltage? Maybe
> > there isnt enough voltage coming from my matrix mixer?
> >
> > can I use midi notes to control the delay time? I have a DR5 and it
> converts
> > audio into midi data. To round out the conversation I have an alesis HR16
> > that turns audio into midi timing info...that is a lot of fun. A boss
> RSD10
> > delay that has a controller input that accepts audio. A boss RPS10
> > pitchshifter that accepts audio.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>  
>



-- 
Dustin Sedlacek
901-828-6801


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I forgot to mention that the time based effects CAN use MIDI Beat Clock.  You can sync your time-based effects to "MIDI" and a beat clock signal coming to the MIDI input behaves as expected.  This might be the config that you need to get working, assuming your HR16 outputs Beat Clock.

--- In BossVF1@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan" <rwrubleski@...> wrote:

>
> Sorry to hear it's not working for you, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.  An expression pedal is just a variable resistance (potentiometer swept with a pedal), and not a voltage source, so the input circuit is designed around this resistance delta.  Clearly the output impedance swing of the signal you're feeding it isn't in the same ballpark that the circuit can use.  This is probably a big "DUH, of course not!", but I'm no EE and only going off of my basic newb instincts.
> 
> Sadly, the VF-1 can't use Note On/Offs as control sources, only CC's.
> 
> Got anything that can convert audio to CC?
> 
> Ryan
> 
> --- In BossVF1@yahoogroups.com, Dustin Sedlacek <dustin.sedlacek@> wrote:
> >
> > audio controlled effects is a passion of mine...they become erratic, they
> > act weird and when you start using it with delays that are 100% wet, you get
> > glitchy buffers gone wild that are working with the source material.
> > 
> > I cannot get the vf1 to do this with the expression input pedals. It is
> > turning the algorithm block on and off, but it is not controlling the
> > effects how I expect it to. Perhaps I need to invert the voltage? Maybe
> > there isnt enough voltage coming from my matrix mixer?
> > 
> > can I use midi notes to control the delay time? I have a DR5 and it converts
> > audio into midi data. To round out the conversation I have an alesis HR16
> > that turns audio into midi timing info...that is a lot of fun. A boss RSD10
> > delay that has a controller input that accepts audio. A boss RPS10
> > pitchshifter that accepts audio.
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Last comment regarding expression control over the VF-1. Nearly all of the expression controlled parameters end up sounding very "stepped" and are not smoothly modulated as you'd expect with analog gear or current production digital effects. Not saying this makes it worthless, just that it makes an audibly stepped effect which is particularly noticeable when you're sweeping pitch or frequency based effects.

Regardless, share some sound samples of what you end up doing with the VF-1. I always feel like I'm reasonably clever with the effect programming foundation, but I don't do a lot of real time control, and I certainly haven't transcended the fact that "there is no spoon".

Make sure you give the VF-1 software editor a try. It makes patch experimentation much, much faster.

Yeah, sadly you're quite right about that, Chris.  I haven't experimented enough with expression pedal modulation, and I certainly haven't done it enough to discern the rhyme or reason behind which parameters have audible stepping and which ones don't.  Many of them work great, and I almost forgot about the stepping until I switch to one that has it, and then I cringe and pout a bit...

It sounds like you've played around a fair bit and are fairly dismayed with the behaviour on the whole.  Dang.



--- In BossVF1@yahoogroups.com, "gastric123" <chris@...> wrote:

>
> Last comment regarding expression control over the VF-1. Nearly all of the expression controlled parameters end up sounding very "stepped" and are not smoothly modulated as you'd expect with analog gear or current production digital effects. Not saying this makes it worthless, just that it makes an audibly stepped effect which is particularly noticeable when you're sweeping pitch or frequency based effects.
> 
> Regardless, share some sound samples of what you end up doing with the VF-1. I always feel like I'm reasonably clever with the effect programming foundation, but I don't do a lot of real time control, and I certainly haven't transcended the fact that "there is no spoon".
> 
> Make sure you give the VF-1 software editor a try. It makes patch experimentation much, much faster.
>

for somethings I dont mind the stepping. I have a very digital approach to
my music. Using midi CCs I can assume that the steps are in divisions of
128?

also in my experiments last night I discovered a "barberpole flanger" type
of effect.

use a pitch shifter with a 100% wet signal feed a source through the vf1 set
the pitch shit coarse setting to 0 and the fine setting to -1 or +1 now feed
the output back into the input for an always rising or always falling flange
type of sound. I use a matrix mixer for this, but you can build a multiplier
fairly easily with a handful of components if you do not have a matrix
mixer.




On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 7:48 AM, Ryan <rwrubleski@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Yeah, sadly you're quite right about that, Chris. I haven't experimented
> enough with expression pedal modulation, and I certainly haven't done it
> enough to discern the rhyme or reason behind which parameters have audible
> stepping and which ones don't. Many of them work great, and I almost forgot
> about the stepping until I switch to one that has it, and then I cringe and
> pout a bit...
>
> It sounds like you've played around a fair bit and are fairly dismayed with
> the behaviour on the whole. Dang.
>
>
> --- In BossVF1@yahoogroups.com, "gastric123" <chris@...> wrote:
> >
> > Last comment regarding expression control over the VF-1. Nearly all of
> the expression controlled parameters end up sounding very "stepped" and are
> not smoothly modulated as you'd expect with analog gear or current
> production digital effects. Not saying this makes it worthless, just that it
> makes an audibly stepped effect which is particularly noticeable when you're
> sweeping pitch or frequency based effects.
> >
> > Regardless, share some sound samples of what you end up doing with the
> VF-1. I always feel like I'm reasonably clever with the effect programming
> foundation, but I don't do a lot of real time control, and I certainly
> haven't transcended the fact that "there is no spoon".
> >
> > Make sure you give the VF-1 software editor a try. It makes patch
> experimentation much, much faster.
> >
>
>  
>



-- 
Dustin Sedlacek
901-828-6801


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm not sure what you mean. I once again own two VF-1 and enjoy them for what they can do.  It's just that there's some audibly stepped modulation with this unit on some of the effects. The LOFI filter is one example. You can't tell as much on percussion tracks, but on linear guitar tracks it's audible. I'm unsure how much real time modulation I'll be doing in the near future, if any at all, so it's a non-issue for me personally at this time.



--- In BossVF1@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan" <rwrubleski@...> wrote:

> It sounds like you've played around a fair bit and are fairly dismayed with the behaviour on the whole.  Dang.

I just meant about the stepping on the controllers, not the entire VF-1...

--- In BossVF1@yahoogroups.com, "gastric123" <chris@...> wrote:

>
> I'm not sure what you mean. I once again own two VF-1 and enjoy them for what they can do.  It's just that there's some audibly stepped modulation with this unit on some of the effects. The LOFI filter is one example. You can't tell as much on percussion tracks, but on linear guitar tracks it's audible. I'm unsure how much real time modulation I'll be doing in the near future, if any at all, so it's a non-issue for me personally at this time.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In BossVF1@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan" <rwrubleski@> wrote:
> 
> > It sounds like you've played around a fair bit and are fairly dismayed with the behaviour on the whole.  Dang.
>

Not exactly.  For expression pedal or CC's, yes, you get up to 128 divisions of control if you want (0-127), but you can use a smaller source range too.  Any range that's a subset of 0-127 can be used.

Now, you can map those source divisions to any destination parameter value range you want.  Depending on the parameter and what its range is, you are free to pick any subset of that, for example: 0-1, 0-127, 32-64, 1-2000, etc.  On a parameter that suffers from audible stepping, you're going to hear the artifacts of the stepping any time the destination value changes, more or less.


Re: your flanger, that, sir, sounds very clever!  Nicely done!

--- In BossVF1@yahoogroups.com, Dustin Sedlacek <dustin.sedlacek@...> wrote:

>
> for somethings I dont mind the stepping. I have a very digital approach to
> my music. Using midi CCs I can assume that the steps are in divisions of
> 128?
> 
> also in my experiments last night I discovered a "barberpole flanger" type
> of effect.
> 
> use a pitch shifter with a 100% wet signal feed a source through the vf1 set
> the pitch shit coarse setting to 0 and the fine setting to -1 or +1 now feed
> the output back into the input for an always rising or always falling flange
> type of sound. I use a matrix mixer for this, but you can build a multiplier
> fairly easily with a handful of components if you do not have a matrix
> mixer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 7:48 AM, Ryan <rwrubleski@...> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > Yeah, sadly you're quite right about that, Chris. I haven't experimented
> > enough with expression pedal modulation, and I certainly haven't done it
> > enough to discern the rhyme or reason behind which parameters have audible
> > stepping and which ones don't. Many of them work great, and I almost forgot
> > about the stepping until I switch to one that has it, and then I cringe and
> > pout a bit...
> >
> > It sounds like you've played around a fair bit and are fairly dismayed with
> > the behaviour on the whole. Dang.
> >
> >
> > --- In BossVF1@yahoogroups.com, "gastric123" <chris@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Last comment regarding expression control over the VF-1. Nearly all of
> > the expression controlled parameters end up sounding very "stepped" and are
> > not smoothly modulated as you'd expect with analog gear or current
> > production digital effects. Not saying this makes it worthless, just that it
> > makes an audibly stepped effect which is particularly noticeable when you're
> > sweeping pitch or frequency based effects.
> > >
> > > Regardless, share some sound samples of what you end up doing with the
> > VF-1. I always feel like I'm reasonably clever with the effect programming
> > foundation, but I don't do a lot of real time control, and I certainly
> > haven't transcended the fact that "there is no spoon".
> > >
> > > Make sure you give the VF-1 software editor a try. It makes patch
> > experimentation much, much faster.
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dustin Sedlacek
> 901-828-6801
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>