Just as a matter of interest, has anyone tried any of my CZ patches? Any comments? What do you think?
Simon Beck
----- Original Message -----
From: Simon Beck
To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [CZsynth] CZ patch conversion to VZ format
One important element of the Mellotron is that it is effectively a sampler without loops. You have the attack stage (essential for convincing sounds, as the Roland D-50 proved 20 years later) and the 8-second-maximum sustain/decay stage (depending on the actual instrument recorded), followed by a dead cutoff, tempered only by the possible addition of a reverb unit. There is no release phase, as this is also a dead cutoff. The result is that the Mellotron MAKES you play it in a certain way to cover or exploit its limitations. Reverb helps, but you still can't hold a note for more than 8 seconds, so you tend to stagger note attacks and releases when playing chords, which covers the instantaneous release. Listen to "Days" by the Kinks for a good example of chordal Mellotron "string" playing.
Simon Beck
London, UK
----- Original Message -----
From: Summa
To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [CZsynth] CZ patch conversion to VZ format
On 29 Jun 2004 at 16:45, steve_the_composer wrote:
> (1) With the VZ envelope architecture, it should be possible to
> manually design Mellotron-style patches.
Not sure what the envelope has to do with this, even so I prefere using multi
stage envelopes...
> (2) About 10 years ago, I started to explore a software design to
> convert CZ patches to VZ architecture, but
> --(a) early on I ran into problems with not being able to modify
> white/pink noise on the VZ, and
> --(b) it was more fruitful to recreate/approximate desired patches by
> hand (and more fun to create totally new sounds).
Understabdable :-)
> (3) If someone really wants to tackle automation of CZ patches for
> the VZ:
> --(a) I would think the first step is to design specifc VZ waveform > algorithms that approximate the different CZ waveforms.
Not that complicated except the duo ones, I did this for the FM7 and VAZ Modular
(not needed anymore since the VAZ now has hardcoded CZ-DCOs), should be easy to
convert to the VZ as well.
Well, that would be the knowledge I could share for this project, other than that
I'm pretty busy...
> --(b) The next step could be to standardize all the other VZ
> parameters that have no counterpart on the CZ.
Well, the major problem will be CZ parameters that don't have Counterparts on the
VZ, like the two pitch envelopes. The VZ is imho simply closer to the DX than to
the CZ...
> --(c) Then, one might make correlation tables of what VZ values mimic
> CZ values for parameters where there is a counterpart.
> --(d) Timbre envelope might be a problem since on the VZ you have to
> do that using the line architecture and the DCAs.
Well, another problem will be that the VZ base sound is completely different...
> I think it would be an excellent project given the renewed interest
> in the CZ and VZ sound. Of course another good project might be to
> develop a conversion process for other ROMpler-based synth engines.
>
> Finally, if anyone has figured out a way to simulate the filtering of
> noise on the VZ so you can do what the CZ architecture can, please
> let me know.
I think the noise is the least problem, I hardly did patches using that parameter
except a few drum sounds...
...Summa
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Re: [CZsynth] CZ patches
2004-06-29 by Simon Beck