Yahoo Groups archive

Casio CZ/ VZ/ FZ - Pro Series

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 22:42 UTC

Thread

Re: [CZsynth] CZ patches

Re: [CZsynth] CZ patches

2004-06-29 by Simon Beck

Just as a matter of interest, has anyone tried any of my CZ patches? Any comments? What do you think?

Simon Beck
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Simon Beck 
  To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 7:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [CZsynth] CZ patch conversion to VZ format


  One important element of the Mellotron is that it is effectively a sampler without loops. You have the attack stage (essential for convincing sounds, as the Roland D-50 proved 20 years later) and the 8-second-maximum sustain/decay stage (depending on the actual instrument recorded), followed by a dead cutoff, tempered only by the possible addition of a reverb unit. There is no release phase, as this is also a dead cutoff. The result is that the Mellotron MAKES you play it in a certain way to cover or exploit its limitations. Reverb helps, but you still can't hold a note for more than 8 seconds, so you tend to stagger note attacks and releases when playing chords, which covers the instantaneous release. Listen to "Days" by the Kinks for a good example of chordal Mellotron "string" playing.

  Simon Beck
  London, UK
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Summa 
    To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com 
    Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 6:53 PM
    Subject: Re: [CZsynth] CZ patch conversion to VZ format


    On 29 Jun 2004 at 16:45, steve_the_composer wrote:

    > (1) With the VZ envelope architecture, it should be possible to 
    > manually design Mellotron-style patches.

    Not sure what the envelope has to do with this, even so I prefere using multi 
    stage envelopes...

    > (2) About 10 years ago, I started to explore a software design to 
    > convert CZ patches to VZ architecture, but
    > --(a) early on I ran into problems with not being able to modify 
    > white/pink noise on the VZ, and
    > --(b) it was more fruitful to recreate/approximate desired patches by 
    > hand (and more fun to create totally new sounds).

    Understabdable :-)

    > (3) If someone really wants to tackle automation of CZ patches for 
    > the VZ:
    > --(a) I would think the first step is to design specifc VZ waveform > algorithms that approximate the different CZ waveforms.

    Not that complicated except the duo ones, I did this for the FM7 and VAZ Modular 
    (not needed anymore since the VAZ now has hardcoded CZ-DCOs), should be easy to 
    convert to the VZ as well.
    Well, that would be the knowledge I could share for this project, other than that 
    I'm pretty busy... 

    > --(b) The next step could be to standardize all the other VZ 
    > parameters that have no counterpart on the CZ.

    Well, the major problem will be CZ parameters that don't have Counterparts on the 
    VZ, like the two pitch envelopes. The VZ is imho simply closer to the DX than to 
    the CZ...

    > --(c) Then, one might make correlation tables of what VZ values mimic 
    > CZ values for parameters where there is a counterpart.
    > --(d) Timbre envelope might be a problem since on the VZ you have to 
    > do that using the line architecture and the DCAs.

    Well, another problem will be that the VZ base sound is completely different...

    > I think it would be an excellent project given the renewed interest 
    > in the CZ and VZ sound.  Of course another good project might be to 
    > develop a conversion process for other ROMpler-based synth engines.
    > 
    > Finally, if anyone has figured out a way to simulate the filtering of 
    > noise on the VZ so you can do what the CZ architecture can, please 
    > let me know.

    I think the noise is the least problem, I hardly did patches using that parameter 
    except a few drum sounds...

    ...Summa


    -- 

    CZ/VZ             mailing list      : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth
    FMHeaven      mailing list      : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fmheaven/
    FS1R             mailing list      : http://www.ampfea.org/mailman/listinfo/fss-list
    Vokator            mailing list      : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vokator

    Wellenform Chat  So and Do 22.00 CET: http://www.moogulator.com/chat

          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
                ADVERTISEMENT
               
         
         


  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yahoo! Groups Links

      a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/
        
      b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      CZsynth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        
      c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.710 / Virus Database: 466 - Release Date: 23-Jun-04

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
              ADVERTISEMENT
             
       
       


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Yahoo! Groups Links

    a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/
      
    b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    CZsynth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      
    c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



  ---
  Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
  Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
  Version: 6.0.710 / Virus Database: 466 - Release Date: 23-Jun-04

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [CZsynth] CZ patches

2004-06-30 by Darth

Since I didn't know the nature of Mellotron I didn't know what to expect.
Now that I know I can say they are nice but definitely not my working style.
I'll try to upload my  CZ bass patches soon (sorry I have work to
finish...).
It is actually a set of patches using a very characteristic bass sound that
I love the CZ for...but matched to different tastes and usable sound range.
In fact I should ask for some help here about how to extend the pitch range
of a CZ patch. Usually 3 octaves what are usable or I'm missing something
here...
To finish, the patches should be played on a 2 octave range and changing
patches changes the characteristics sound-wise to be musical and
interesting.
Might need some compressing, my audio interface's gain is fully
variable and I used a fair amount of gain if I remeber.
Enough talk, back to work and expect patches as sysex and SD library.
Regards:
    Darth




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Simon Beck" <simon@...>
To: <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: [CZsynth] CZ patches


> Just as a matter of interest, has anyone tried any of my CZ patches? Any
comments? What do you think?
>
> Simon Beck
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Simon Beck
>   To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 7:42 PM
>   Subject: Re: [CZsynth] CZ patch conversion to VZ format
>
>
>   One important element of the Mellotron is that it is effectively a
sampler without loops. You have the attack stage (essential for convincing
sounds, as the Roland D-50 proved 20 years later) and the 8-second-maximum
sustain/decay stage (depending on the actual instrument recorded), followed
by a dead cutoff, tempered only by the possible addition of a reverb unit.
There is no release phase, as this is also a dead cutoff. The result is that
the Mellotron MAKES you play it in a certain way to cover or exploit its
limitations. Reverb helps, but you still can't hold a note for more than 8
seconds, so you tend to stagger note attacks and releases when playing
chords, which covers the instantaneous release. Listen to "Days" by the
Kinks for a good example of chordal Mellotron "string" playing.
>
>   Simon Beck
>   London, UK
>     ----- Original Message ----- 
>     From: Summa
>     To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
>     Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 6:53 PM
>     Subject: Re: [CZsynth] CZ patch conversion to VZ format
>
>
>     On 29 Jun 2004 at 16:45, steve_the_composer wrote:
>
>     > (1) With the VZ envelope architecture, it should be possible to
>     > manually design Mellotron-style patches.
>
>     Not sure what the envelope has to do with this, even so I prefere
using multi
>     stage envelopes...
>
>     > (2) About 10 years ago, I started to explore a software design to
>     > convert CZ patches to VZ architecture, but
>     > --(a) early on I ran into problems with not being able to modify
>     > white/pink noise on the VZ, and
>     > --(b) it was more fruitful to recreate/approximate desired patches
by
>     > hand (and more fun to create totally new sounds).
>
>     Understabdable :-)
>
>     > (3) If someone really wants to tackle automation of CZ patches for
>     > the VZ:
>     > --(a) I would think the first step is to design specifc VZ waveform
> algorithms that approximate the different CZ waveforms.
>
>     Not that complicated except the duo ones, I did this for the FM7 and
VAZ Modular
>     (not needed anymore since the VAZ now has hardcoded CZ-DCOs), should
be easy to
>     convert to the VZ as well.
>     Well, that would be the knowledge I could share for this project,
other than that
>     I'm pretty busy...
>
>     > --(b) The next step could be to standardize all the other VZ
>     > parameters that have no counterpart on the CZ.
>
>     Well, the major problem will be CZ parameters that don't have
Counterparts on the
>     VZ, like the two pitch envelopes. The VZ is imho simply closer to the
DX than to
>     the CZ...
>
>     > --(c) Then, one might make correlation tables of what VZ values
mimic
>     > CZ values for parameters where there is a counterpart.
>     > --(d) Timbre envelope might be a problem since on the VZ you have to
>     > do that using the line architecture and the DCAs.
>
>     Well, another problem will be that the VZ base sound is completely
different...
>
>     > I think it would be an excellent project given the renewed interest
>     > in the CZ and VZ sound.  Of course another good project might be to
>     > develop a conversion process for other ROMpler-based synth engines.
>     >
>     > Finally, if anyone has figured out a way to simulate the filtering
of
>     > noise on the VZ so you can do what the CZ architecture can, please
>     > let me know.
>
>     I think the noise is the least problem, I hardly did patches using
that parameter
>     except a few drum sounds...
>
>     ...Summa
>
>
>     -- 
>
>     CZ/VZ             mailing list      :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth
>     FMHeaven      mailing list      :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fmheaven/
>     FS1R             mailing list      :
http://www.ampfea.org/mailman/listinfo/fss-list
>     Vokator            mailing list      :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vokator
>
>     Wellenform Chat  So and Do 22.00 CET: http://www.moogulator.com/chat
>
>           Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>                 ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>     Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>       a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/
>
>       b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>       CZsynth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>       c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
>     ---
>     Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>     Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>     Version: 6.0.710 / Virus Database: 466 - Release Date: 23-Jun-04
>
>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>               ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/
>
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     CZsynth-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
>
>   ---
>   Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>   Version: 6.0.710 / Virus Database: 466 - Release Date: 23-Jun-04
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.