Casio CZ/ VZ/ FZ - Pro Series

filters do nothing for me , you're a bit off topic  maybe should start your 
own thread please.
i like synths the way they are, the filters are fun to play with , but on a 
serious note they don't write the music ...man this is hard

so no real replacement unless i highjack an ibm/at drive ??
don't need a hx emulator

thanks
charles


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jammie" <jammie.emma@...>
To: <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [CZsynth] casio fz10m


> it was becuase every thing went digital
>
> the dsm1 was used for the pcm content for the m1 and t series and 01w
>
> they were pure digital machines with no res filter
>
> the dz7 was to blame for most synths discarding analog filters
>
> ensoniq was another company they were all analog hybrid filters with 
> digital osc
>
> but when cem started to stop manufacture due to the digital synths and 
> updated poly by digital means to have a 24 32 64 voice poly synth with 
> analog filters would mean 64 analog filters 64 analog vca
>
> this would have made the synths to big and the cost was to great
>
> so all manufacturers made asic chips that could simulate filters
>
> doing negative feed back in digital properly is very hard for one thing 
> you need lots of processor power they just never had thing fast enough
>
> and you get samples in time delay for feed back
>
> unlike analog which is zero time as its fed straight to the input
>
> with digital it all has to be computed the fed back to the begining which 
> adds latency
>
> roland did it but it was good but analog it was not
>
> casio created the first and only hybrid filter being digital control by 
> cpu and analog audio path
>
> all other systems they had to use dacs for the cv under cpu control the 
> sample and hold multiplexers which were digitally controlled and they 
> would sample the cv volTAGE AT ITS IMPUT OF 5V AND THEN
>
> the sample and hold would sample the voltage given by the cpu and hold it 
> in the output this would be sent tothe filters
>
> this was first done on an 8bit system
>
> thats why some analog synths that are cpu controlled were a little steppy
>
> the later synths like the jx3p and 8p and the matrix12 used 12bit dacs for 
> the cv control giving better rate but on the matrix 1000 it was left as 
> 8bits and is very steppy
>
> for those type of sounds today i use the shruthi which is digital and a 
> new analog filter
>
> out of all digital res filters i have used the roland s series samplers 
> and the kurzweil vast dsp system are the best
>
> yamaha are not that bad sy99sy77 and the va and later synths
>
> as for wavetable synthesis using your own wavetables the eps16+/asr10 
> ts10/12 are the best and can do way more than the waldorfs can do
>
> i own a waldorf wave and a uwave 1
>
> i have owned a blofeld and a q but i got rid of those as i could do the 
> sounds on the ensoniqs but bigger more massive sounding
>
> and with wavetables res filters are no good as you lose the fealing of the 
> wavetable at high res settings they just become sin waves losing all the 
> detail of the wavetable
>
> even on the ppg the patches that used the scanning capability did not use 
> res
>
> the res usually was used when just using a single cycle of the table with 
> no wavetable morph to simulate analog synths that only used 
> sin/tri/square/saw noise waves
>
> i like the filters on the s3200 with its extra filter board you can do 
> some neat filter tricks
>
> i liked this sampler so much i still own 5 of them with 3 having the 135mb 
> optical drives
>
> i have 5 asr10 3 keyboards 2 racks
>
> and 3 s760 samplers and 1 s770 nice dacs on that
>
> i like the s950 and i have a mpc60 which i use for hardware sequencer
>
> kurzweil k2000sp and k2500 rack
>
> tx16w
>
> the 2 dsm1 used mainly for support of the t1 and t3ex
>
> the dss1x with the usb and the 16mb upgrade with wave file support
>
> EII/EIII/e6400ultra/emulatorx2
>
> i have owned a synclavier and a fairlight cmxIII
>
> but sold both of them ages ago when they were fetching big second hand 
> mula
>
> i own a gem s2turbo which is also a good wavetable synthand can add your 
> own
>
> being a synth tech i get my hands on so many synths and samplers and get 
> given stuff that people no longer want as part payments
>
> the fz1 still has at to play in songs as its gritty and can do very good 
> synth type sounds
>
> the alphajuno1/2 the hoover sound was sampled a lot as the filter and 
> pitch modulation for hoover type sounds was great on the fz1 and was used 
> by many freinds in the early 80,s for this
>
> yes the alphajuno could do it but in unison mode you only get 1 key 
> sampling the unison mode and then putting it through thr fz1 filter with 
> the pitch and the filter cuttoff modulated with the mod wheel made it so 
> much fatter with doing chords
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Jason Adkins
>  To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
>  Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 1:22 PM
>  Subject: Re: [CZsynth] casio fz10m
>
>
>
>  Hiya,
>
>  I know what you mean,but the filters on my S5000 are not too bad.
>  I'm sure we have probably had this conversation before but if the
>  DSM-1 had those facilities basically in the first place why did they
>  release it as it was? It just doesn't make sense unless they didn't
>  want to take sales away from the DSS-1?
>
>  J
>
>  On 21 Oct 2012, at 10:34, jammie wrote:
>
>  > yes but the akai are so clinical digital
>  >
>  > even though the dsm1 never had res it did still have analog filters
>  > and they are warm
>  >
>  > i use the dsm1 mainly for pcm creation of samples for the t1 and
>  > t3ex that i have i have 2 dsm1 1 which i have done the res
>  > conversion and the external inputs so i can run my digital synths
>  > through it
>  >
>  > AND ONE TOTALLY UNTOUCHED VERSION
>  >
>  > we are working on a usb and 16mb upgrade for it with a filter
>  > upgrade board that will fit in the original pads in sockets this
>  > will give us res but also we are doing the pole mixing like the
>  > matrix12
>  >
>  > my spectral sound sets can be used on the fz1 ill do a bunch in fzf
>  > format which you can dump to the synth via midi let me know what
>  > waveshapes you want
>  >
>  > i have the full single cycle waves of each wavetable of the ppg series
>  >
>  > same for the uwave and the uwavext
>  >
>  > i have the 128 wavetable 1/2 of the waldorfq
>  >
>  > the waves tables of the esq1 and the vfx range
>  >
>  > the prophet vs including my user waves
>  >
>  > the kawai k3 k1/k4/
>  >
>  > and lots of analog waves sampled from analog synths
>  >
>  > by layering them in the fz1 range you can get 4 samples layered with
>  > 2 note poly to do d50 or prophet vs type patches
>  >
>  > and you can do 8 layer unison detuned type sounds using 8 layers by
>  > layering them and detuning them with a sub osc being 2 octaves lower
>  > you can get very fat sounds
>  >
>  > and i like the analog filter on the fz1 its digitally controlled but
>  > the audio is pure analog same way the osc are controlled on the dco
>  > of the roland series
>  >
>  > which are pure analog patch with digital clock stable tune control
>  > ----- Original Message -----
>  > From: Jason Adkins
>  > To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
>  > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 1:50 AM
>  > Subject: Re: [CZsynth] casio fz10m
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > You certainly seem to be doing some interesting stuff Jammie.
>  > I used to have briefly a DSM1,sorry I hated it nowhere near as good
>  > as
>  > the DSS-1 no delay's and no analogue filters as standard without
>  > f**king about with it (I''m no circuit bender sadly) sorry I love the
>  > digital wave stuff but I'm still a tart when it comes to analogue
>  > filters and the floppy on the DSM1 was a c**t. no wonder everybody
>  > and
>  > his wife bought an Akai.
>  >
>  > I think I may have Turbosynth.... also you can do some interesting
>  > stuff with Steinberg Avalon (Atari again).
>  >
>  > Sorry for truncated response my football team Norwich are on match of
>  > the day in a moment which I want to watch, they beat Arsenal for the
>  > first time at Carrow Road in 28 years today.
>  >
>  > J
>  >
>  > On 20 Oct 2012, at 22:38, jammie wrote:
>  >
>  >> i have loads of 8bit waves for the prophet vs
>  >>
>  >> we are working on new pcm cards for the wavestation so in the near
>  >> future it will be possible to write new pcm data to the pcm card
>  >>
>  >> plus they are going to be 2-4mb switched in 512k banks
>  >>
>  >> get a dsm1 they are great same additive engine as the dss1 and it
>  >> has 4 multitimbral so doing prophet vs sounds is easy
>  >>
>  >> but with samples so its more like a jd800/jd990 but with analog
>  >> filters
>  >>
>  >> the dsm1 has 16 of the dss1 chips res is tied to ground but easy to
>  >> cut a trace add a 100ohm resister for current limiting and adding a
>  >> pot to a 5v source this willgive good res but not self osc becuase
>  >> you need 7v for that
>  >>
>  >> i used on one of my dsm1 machines with a doepfer midi to cv
>  >> controller you get 16 midi cv outputs that can be set up to any midi
>  >> cc control they are 0-5 v cv,s
>  >>
>  >> the emax uses the same type of system but you have 32 partials but
>  >> you also get to do them on a table ppg style
>  >>
>  >> you choose various additive waveforms on this table then you set
>  >> volume envelopes for each cycle in the table and pitch envelopes and
>  >> the you interpolate from one single cycle to the other creating a
>  >> spectral variating waveform like as if you were scanning the ppg
>  >> wavetables
>  >>
>  >> the emax then creates this as a multisample and then you loop it or
>  >> what ever to get good no clicking loops of this file you need to use
>  >> the same single cycle additive waveform
>  >>
>  >> for slot one and the end slot
>  >>
>  >> the digidesign designed a software program that copied this and it
>  >> could do it on a mac screen rather than use the tiny lcd
>  >>
>  >> it was called softsynth both for mac and atari
>  >>
>  >> then they did a better version called turbo synth both mac and atari
>  >>
>  >> i used to use it on the mirage as it did great wavetables like this
>  >> and made it easy for looping
>  >>
>  >> i create transwaves the same way for ensoniqs as they can sweep them
>  >> like the ppg
>  >>
>  >> i have done all the ppg
>  >>
>  >> the uwaveand wave which has 64 of them which also include the ppg
>  >> but they sound different becuase the uwave and xt use half cycle
>  >> waves then they compute the other half as a mirror image
>  >>
>  >> which is impossible to do with additive synthesis
>  >> ----- Original Message -----
>  >> From: Jason Adkins
>  >> To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
>  >> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 9:56 PM
>  >> Subject: Re: [CZsynth] casio fz10m
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> Hi Jammie,
>  >>
>  >> I have never used an Emax I think Francis Cote who post's on here has
>  >> an Emax or 2 so he'd be a good guy to talk to.
>  >> I'd love a DSS1 again but I havn't got the space now sadly (I used to
>  >> keep all my gear around a friends house at the time) those things are
>  >> f**king huge.
>  >> Can you do a similar trick with a wavestation/prophet VS?
>  >>
>  >> J
>  >>
>  >> On 20 Oct 2012, at 21:33, jammie wrote:
>  >>
>  >>> and single cycle waves are the way to go with theses samplers the k3
>  >>> k5 k5000 ppg dss1 and the fz1 range all have additive sin synthesis
>  >>>
>  >>> but the neat trick on both the dss1 and the fz range is that you can
>  >>> link mix the additive waves to create a moving wavetable
>  >>>
>  >>> a bit like the emax spectral synth generation
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>> ----- Original Message -----
>  >>> From: jammie
>  >>> To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
>  >>> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 9:29 PM
>  >>> Subject: Re: [CZsynth] casio fz10m
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>> yes you can fit scsi its the card fitted to the fz20
>  >>>
>  >>> but you need a copy of the scsi floppy access software
>  >>>
>  >>> and charlie still needs to get a good working floppy drive
>  >>>
>  >>> the floppy emulator is cheaper than a replacement drive
>  >>>
>  >>> ----- Original Message -----
>  >>> From: Jason Adkins
>  >>> To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
>  >>> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 9:19 PM
>  >>> Subject: Re: [CZsynth] casio fz10m
>  >>>
>  >>> I think the FZ1/10m/20m is worth the effort the synth section sounds
>  >>> superb,my friend used to use that all the time,the only other synth/
>  >>> sampler I have used which had the a similar function was the Korg
>  >>> DSS-1 (just usiing a slider) although there are a few programs for
>  >>> the
>  >>> Atari which allow you to draw a waveform as does the Roland samplers
>  >>> and the Fairlight of course.
>  >>> I think a PPG and possibly the Kawai K5 could do additive drawing
>  >>> using a slider too.
>  >>> I know the FZ10m could be fitted with scsi because I saw one in a
>  >>> studio in Islington London and I asked the engineer if I could
>  >>> have a
>  >>> look around the back because he was loading sounds to it from a Jaz
>  >>> drive.
>  >>>
>  >>> J
>  >>>
>  >>> On 19 Oct 2012, at 00:18, charlie midi gfa wrote:
>  >>>
>  >>>> im sure the technicians will love me $$$ ,
>  >>>> and by now the prices of a
>  >>>> shugart to scsi adaptor has sky rocketed.....
>  >>>> so the raw image is it 1.68 Mb?
>  >>>> please go on jammie , do you use some of this technology
>  >>>> personally?
>  >>>> i am interested adapting
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>> charles
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>  >>>> From: "Jason Adkins" <jason_ralf808@...>
>  >>>> To: <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com>
>  >>>> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 3:23 PM
>  >>>> Subject: Re: [CZsynth] casio fz10m
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>> I don't agree,I think the FZ10m had a scsi option too.
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>> On 18 Oct 2012, at 19:43, jammie wrote:
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>> its the floppy emulator image software that does a raw image it
>  >>>>>> cant
>  >>>>>> be read by anything except the fz1/fz10/fz20
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> there is no other programs that can write the floppy image back
>  >>>>>> to
>  >>>>>> the floppy becuase its a different speed
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> only the fz20 had scsi and its useless with out the floppy as
>  >>>>>> its a
>  >>>>>> floppy disk access program has to be loaded sop that the fz20 can
>  >>>>>> use the scsi
>  >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>  >>>>>> From: Jason Adkins
>  >>>>>> To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
>  >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 7:35 PM
>  >>>>>> Subject: Re: [CZsynth] casio fz10m
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> Isn't there a PC program that will image FZ1/10m/20m floppies?
>  >>>>>> Is your FZ10m fitted with SCSI?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> J
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> On 17 Oct 2012, at 00:11, charlie midi gfa wrote:
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> so a little o.t.
>  >>>>>>> but
>  >>>>>>> anybody tell me what drive will work in a fz10m ,
>  >>>>>>> (cross reference the matsushita ju-255 )
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> i can't find suitable drive or a indentical one to repair the
>  >>>>>>> fz10m
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>> charles
>  >>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>
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