Casio CZ/ VZ/ FZ - Pro Series

Can anybody recommend a keyboard which produces realistic (not tacky 
sounding) piano / brass / strings / orchestral sounds? (I remember 
some time ago Apollo440 using a keyboard to produce the brass section 
on their hit, Lost in Space (theme tune of the film).

I have tried two or three keyboards which have these functions but 
they are very poor imitations. I'm looking for something where you'd 
be hard pressed to tell the difference from the real thing!

All suggestions much appreciated.

Roland XV5080 + Concert Piano board, Yamaha Motif EX...

-----Original Message-----
From: keyboardnovice [mailto:keyboardnovice@...]
Sent: 20 January 2004 15:52
To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CZsynth] A keyboard which produces realistic Piano, Brass section & Strings?


Can anybody recommend a keyboard which produces realistic (not tacky 
sounding) piano / brass / strings / orchestral sounds? (I remember 
some time ago Apollo440 using a keyboard to produce the brass section 
on their hit, Lost in Space (theme tune of the film).

I have tried two or three keyboards which have these functions but 
they are very poor imitations. I'm looking for something where you'd 
be hard pressed to tell the difference from the real thing!

All suggestions much appreciated.



  _____  

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yamaha CP70.

>Can anybody recommend a keyboard which produces realistic (not tacky
>sounding) piano

With all due respect, this is not a helpful reply. The Yamaha CP-70 is an electro-acoustic grand piano from the late '70s. Granted, it can sound quite close to an acoustic piano (although nowadays even the cheapest Casios have more realistic piano samples), but that's ALL it'll do. No string, brass, organ or synth sounds. It weighs a huge amount, takes up vast quantities of space (even when folded for transport) and needs regular tuning (it is after all a real piano). I think the original question was about modern keyboards that could cover the whole range of imitative sounds convincingly. Try the Casio WK-3000, or if you can't afford it, the CTK-691 (the same but with a shorter keyboard).

Simon Beck
London, UK
  Yamaha CP70.

  >Can anybody recommend a keyboard which produces realistic (not tacky
  >sounding) piano


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I do have to point out that the CP70 is a way 
much cooler instrument than those you mention... though I have to admit 
that I have not yet run across one of those cheap Casios with the realistic 
piano samples.

Also, the thought of playing "organ" on a "piano action" keyboard makes me 
shudder. :-?

Andy


At 09:12 PM 1/20/2004 +0000, you wrote:

>With all due respect, this is not a helpful reply. The Yamaha CP-70 is an 
>electro-acoustic grand piano from the late '70s. Granted, it can sound 
>quite close to an acoustic piano (although nowadays even the cheapest 
>Casios have more realistic piano samples), but that's ALL it'll do. No 
>string, brass, organ or synth sounds. It weighs a huge amount, takes up 
>vast quantities of space (even when folded for transport) and needs 
>regular tuning (it is after all a real piano). I think the original 
>question was about modern keyboards that could cover the whole range of 
>imitative sounds convincingly. Try the Casio WK-3000, or if you can't 
>afford it, the CTK-691 (the same but with a shorter keyboard).
>
>Simon Beck
>London, UK
>

I was only pointing out that even a cheap Casio's ACOUSTIC piano sample will sound more similar to an acoustic piano than a Yamaha CP-70 ever can, not that the Casio's sound will be particularly high-quality! Yes, the CP-70 is an incredibly cool vintage piano, and it has a very usable and classic sound. Check out my "Hall of Electric Pianos" website for more info about vintage electric pianos than you ever knew existed! www.alphabeck.co.uk/hoep/epianos.html

Simon Beck
London, UK

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Andrew Bohachewsky 
  To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 9:14 PM
  Subject: Re: [CZsynth] A keyboard which produces realistic Piano, Brass section & Strings?


  Sorry, I couldn't resist. I do have to point out that the CP70 is a way 
  much cooler instrument than those you mention... though I have to admit 
  that I have not yet run across one of those cheap Casios with the realistic 
  piano samples.

  Also, the thought of playing "organ" on a "piano action" keyboard makes me 
  shudder. :-?

  Andy


  At 09:12 PM 1/20/2004 +0000, you wrote:
  >With all due respect, this is not a helpful reply. The Yamaha CP-70 is an 
  >electro-acoustic grand piano from the late '70s. Granted, it can sound 
  >quite close to an acoustic piano (although nowadays even the cheapest 
  >Casios have more realistic piano samples), but that's ALL it'll do. No 
  >string, brass, organ or synth sounds. It weighs a huge amount, takes up 
  >vast quantities of space (even when folded for transport) and needs 
  >regular tuning (it is after all a real piano). I think the original 
  >question was about modern keyboards that could cover the whole range of 
  >imitative sounds convincingly. Try the Casio WK-3000, or if you can't 
  >afford it, the CTK-691 (the same but with a shorter keyboard).
  >
  >Simon Beck
  >London, UK
  >


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Very cool site Simon! As someone who began life as a classical pianist I 
have to say that I haven't come across any "fake pianos" that sound better 
AND feel better than the CP70 - must be the physicality of real hammers 
hitting real strings to produce sound (the fact that I prefer a real stiff 
action might make me dislike the feel of fakes more than others...). Then 
again I drag a Rhodes around for gigs due to lack of an acceptable 
substitute... I must be either very picky, crazy, or a glutton for punishment.

Andy


At 12:27 PM 1/21/2004 +0000, you wrote:

>I was only pointing out that even a cheap Casio's ACOUSTIC piano sample 
>will sound more similar to an acoustic piano than a Yamaha CP-70 ever can, 
>not that the Casio's sound will be particularly high-quality! Yes, the 
>CP-70 is an incredibly cool vintage piano, and it has a very usable and 
>classic sound. Check out my "Hall of Electric Pianos" website for more 
>info about vintage electric pianos than you ever knew existed! 
>www.alphabeck.co.uk/hoep/epianos.html
>
>Simon Beck
>London, UK

--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "keyboardnovice" 
<keyboardnovice@y...> wrote:
> Can anybody recommend a keyboard which produces realistic (not 
tacky 
> sounding) piano / brass / strings / orchestral sounds? (I remember 


  I noticed that you got very few really good options suggested so 
far.  If you are looking for these sounds in VERY high quality and 
yet a budget keyboard, The Korg IX300 is what you want....all this 
plus an onboard sequencer and probably the most sophisticated 
sampled grand piano around.  These were from the late 1990's and can 
sometimes be found on ebay for 2-300 dollars. They have a built in 
floppy disk drive and sounds are compatible with the korg x, i, and 
n series keyboards. Also velocity sensitive with aftertouch but not 
the greatest keys. They are not piano type keys but synth type 
action.
  Hope this helps :o),
    Frank

Try a s/h Roland D-70
 
How this for a bargain ? Approximate s/h value: £250 / 
 
Roland D-70, got mine in 1994 and will never be 'parted', it is a superb digital synth, real sounds and great at all the other types too..
 
So,
 
If you want really really superb strings, nice brass, (many types) superb piano (the on-board D70 piano patch is fantastic (& very real) & very very playable and I'm still not tired of it yet after 10 years !  Hey,layer it with the ''Low-Strings'' on-board sound and its awesome (dudes !, ''most excellent'')
 
She has 76 weighted keys (with a great feel, very playable..) Many many superb Roland sounds too, D-50 type plus many ''real type' sounds (samples) cos it also has most of the U20 keyboard / U220 sound modules Samples on-board included in her ROM set...
 
No sequencer, can't have it all....I use Atari 
 
(''Long Live Atari'' !)
 
Ok, shes is only 30 voice poly &  6 part multi, but who cares ??!!!
 
In a few words, ITS A BLOODY GREAT keyboard and this is the Best Bit, you could find one on Ebay in great shape for as little as £250 !
 
Wicked.
 
There you go, mine is still sitting above my JD-800 on the stand at home & thats where she is staying !
 
Try to ''get a listen to one'', they are great,,,,,,,Good Luck dude !
 
 
J

fredbart26753 <fnb@...> wrote:
--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "keyboardnovice" 
<keyboardnovice@y...> wrote:
> Can anybody recommend a keyboard which produces realistic (not 
tacky 
> sounding) piano / brass / strings / orchestral sounds? (I remember 


  I noticed that you got very few really good options suggested so 
far.  If you are looking for these sounds in VERY high quality and 
yet a budget keyboard, The Korg IX300 is what you want....all this 
plus an onboard sequencer and probably the most sophisticated 
sampled grand piano around.  These were from the late 1990's and can 
sometimes be found on ebay for 2-300 dollars. They have a built in 
floppy disk drive and sounds are compatible with the korg x, i, and 
n series keyboards. Also velocity sensitive with aftertouch but not 
the greatest keys. They are not piano type keys but synth type 
action.
  Hope this helps :o),
    Frank



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Justin is right , The Roland D range of synths have great piano patches , they dont just stop at the D70 .The D10 ,D20 D50 etc all have very similar voices ,plus velocity and I believe after touch,

I've got a D10 which was heavily used in the early nineties by guys like Marshal Jefferson 'Move your Body' just about everybody else making piano led house records, I believe that Liam  from the Prodigy  has one so maybe this is the sound you are after .?

I got mine for £60 , They aren't immediately popular and they pop up on e-bay frequently. But check your local free ads or place an add in your local paper ,that way you're sure to get a bargain.

Dael


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Justin is right , The Roland D range of synths have great piano patches , 
>they dont just stop at the D70 .The D10 ,D20 D50 etc all have very similar 
>voices ,plus velocity and I believe after touch

I'm curious about the D-series synths but I've never been able to get clear 
information on them.

I know how the D50 works, but how different are the D5/10/20 from the 50?  
All I've heard is that they've got different waveforms and don't sound as 
good, but other than that it's hard to come across real information.  I know 
the voice architecture is similar (up to 4 partials of either analog 
emulation or PCM waves) but I don't know much else about it...

Also I've heard that the D70 has some sort of weird waveform modulation that 
can create a lot of new sounds based on the PCM samples, does anyone have 
any details on this?  Is it similar to the transwaves in Ensoniq synths 
(loop point modulation)?

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Hi, 

I have some of them including D-70. I like D-70's sound quality very 
much, and to me it's even better than later models like SuperJV/SuperJD.
I agree there's not much information about D-70's DLM, and you'll surely 
be curious about it, Scott. I haven't explored DLM much yet. It's difficult 
to use DLM effectively, but it provides new possibilities still today.

Below are the main differences between D-series.

D-50/550
PCM ROM: 128KB
Multiple LFO modulation incl. PWM
FX: Reverb, Chorus*2 and EQ*2

D-5/10/20/110
PCM ROM: 256KB
LFO only for vibrato
FX: Short delay/Reverb
Multi-timbral, no aftertouch

MT-32
D110 with less ROM.

D-70
Expanded version of U-20; a rompler with multimode filter and DLM.
PCM ROM: not clear but maybe between 1 or 2MB, expandable with cards

MV-30
D-70 without DLM and patch layer.

D-70's DLM (Differential Loop Modulation) is like relooping a sample. 
You can set the start point and the length parameter. No LFO modulation -
 it's different from Transwave.
When you change a sample's loop settings in your sampler, it creates 
loop noise. When the loop length is very short, it can be a new oscillator 
waveform.
DLM does more by expanding the loop segment when relooping. It sounds 
like a short-looped pulsy waveform, a failed sample-loop, or a noisy 
granular sound. Sometimes it sounds like what you hear when your synth 
is half-broken.

Best,
Sealed
http://homepage.mac.com/synth_seal/html/index.html


> I'm curious about the D-series synths but I've never been able to get 
clear 
> information on them.
> 
> I know how the D50 works, but how different are the D5/10/20 from the 
50?  
> All I've heard is that they've got different waveforms and don't sound 
as 
> good, but other than that it's hard to come across real information. 
 I know 
> the voice architecture is similar (up to 4 partials of either analog 
> emulation or PCM waves) but I don't know much else about it...
> 
> Also I've heard that the D70 has some sort of weird waveform modulation 
that 
> can create a lot of new sounds based on the PCM samples, does anyone 
have 
> any details on this?  Is it similar to the transwaves in Ensoniq synths 
> (loop point modulation)?