Casio CZ/ VZ/ FZ - Pro Series

> >All that for a synth with weaker FM than the norm?
> 
> Less agressive don't necessarely means that they sound weaker...  just
> different... as I mentioned before, it's (at least for my ears) probably
> hard for a synth to sound as agressive/harsh as the old FM synths...

Head out to Yamaha's manual library (use google, Yamaha registration
required) and pull the manuals for the SY77, TG77 and SY99.  These
were "RCM" synths - 16 note poly 6-op FM (45 algorithms) AND 16 note
poly AWM (including squares, saws, etc.).  Pitch, Filter and Amp
envelope generators available on each of four such elements per voice.
And AWM waveforms were usable as both carriers and modulators of the
FM signal chain.  What it lacks in "FM aggressiveness" it more than
makes up in depth.  Nothing done so far at Yamaha has quite gotten
there.  These were scary synths in 1989 and they're still pretty scary
today.

ccb (waiting for Motif)


-
Charles C. Bennett, Jr.			VA LiNUX Systems
Systems Engineer, Northeast US		25 Burlington Mall Rd., Suite 300
+1 617 543-6513				Burlington, MA 01803-4145
ccb@...				www.valinux.com

ccb wrote re the SY77 and SY99:

" These were 'RCM' synths [...] AWM waveforms were usable as both carriers
and modulators of the FM signal chain."

That was the feature that had excited me about the SY99, and was the reason
I was negotiating to buy one.  However, I then read an in-depth profile on
the SY99 written by an owner who claimed that using an AWM waveform as an FM
modulator created a lot of "noise," and thus was only good for creating
noisy effects.  Didn't sound very musical.  Does anyone have an audio sample
(.wav, .mp3, etc.) of the SY99 that disproves this user's claim?

-- Jeremy

Hi...

At 12:31 12.06.01 -0400, you wrote:
>
>> >All that for a synth with weaker FM than the norm?
>> 
>> Less agressive don't necessarely means that they sound weaker...  just
>> different... as I mentioned before, it's (at least for my ears) probably
>> hard for a synth to sound as agressive/harsh as the old FM synths...
>
>Head out to Yamaha's manual library (use google, Yamaha registration
>required) and pull the manuals for the SY77, TG77 and SY99.  These

I'm already registered, downloaded lot's of manuals since then... 

>were "RCM" synths - 16 note poly 6-op FM (45 algorithms) AND 16 note
>poly AWM (including squares, saws, etc.).  Pitch, Filter and Amp
>envelope generators available on each of four such elements per voice.

I know this, since I a friend told me a lot of his TG77 and I checked the
Sounddiver modul to understand some of his descriptions... 

>And AWM waveforms were usable as both carriers and modulators of the
>FM signal chain.  

That friend (and other user in a discussion of the Keyboards forum) told me
that those are hardly usable in the FM context, it mostly ends up in
creating noise... also, if I'm not mistaken, there's only one PCM avaiable
per algorithm... so I guess for instance the FS1R FM - implementation with
the adjustable prefiltered waveforms, formant and bandwith parameters for
the operator waveforms probably makes more sense, since if it get to noisy
I'm able reduce the overtones a bit... I at least find it very usefull
there... but haven't had a chance to compare it with the TG77... the fine
thing with the TG/SY77/99 is (as far as I know about it) that you can create
your own algorithms and have feedback for every operator and the loopable
multistage envelopes and improved level scaling... 

>What it lacks in "FM aggressiveness" it more than
>makes up in depth.  

Can't tell, haven't had the chance to programm this synth... anyway, I don't
mean to say that it is a bad synth... as the VZ has it's own character and
can do sounds the TX81z can't the TG77 has certainly some great sounds to
offer... maybe it's my english why everyone wants to missunderstand me.... ;)

>Nothing done so far at Yamaha has quite gotten there.  These were scary
synths >in 1989 and they're still pretty scary today.

I don't know what you mean with scary... since I prefere complex synths they
don't sound that scary to me... :-) 

Summa

			     
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           +                 Nicknames  : Summa or SumGhost
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           +                 Born       : 1967
           +                 Profession : Student of Computer Science
           +	                     

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I used to own an SY77 and I must agree that RSM as a Wave 
source is a poor FM modulator indeed.
  However- the SY77did have TX81z type complex waveforms that 
yielded GREAT results- often you could just load up an old DX7 
patch and switch on one of these waveforms and VIOLA!- an 
instantly more complex sound that was more like having an 8 or 
more operator algorithm.

Personally- I think the SY99 is loved due to its' Extra Keys.

The exitement over the User Sample playback quickly 
diminished once you realized how little memory you acyually 
had.

Todd S :)


--- In CZsynth@y..., "jwp" <forms@s...> wrote:
> ccb wrote re the SY77 and SY99:
> 
> " These were 'RCM' synths [...] AWM waveforms were usable 
as both carriers
> and modulators of the FM signal chain."
> 
> That was the feature that had excited me about the SY99, and 
was the reason
> I was negotiating to buy one.  However, I then read an in-depth 
profile on
> the SY99 written by an owner who claimed that using an AWM 
waveform as an FM
> modulator created a lot of "noise," and thus was only good for 
creating
> noisy effects.  Didn't sound very musical.  Does anyone have 
an audio sample

> (.wav, .mp3, etc.) of the SY99 that disproves this user's claim?
> 
> -- Jeremy