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Thread
2008-03-04 by jdcx64
I really want a knob/wheel to program the CZ. I gave up on reverse-engeneering approaches but thought of a simpler and more universal solution: a little PIC reads the rotation of an encoder and outputs the corresponding +/- key presses at high speed to the keyboard interface, using a pair of opto-couplers. Has anyone done this, is it available anywhere? Joaquim
2008-03-04 by Giles Thompson
oh man i would kill for this. any details would be appreciated. chur
> I really want a knob/wheel to program the CZ. > > I gave up on reverse-engeneering approaches but thought of a simpler > and more universal solution: a little PIC reads the rotation of an > encoder and outputs the corresponding +/- key presses at high speed to > the keyboard interface, using a pair of opto-couplers. > Has anyone done this, is it available anywhere? > > Joaquim > >
2008-03-05 by jdcx64
Ingredients: small PIC, high-res encoder, 2 x isolating optocouplers, some software on the PIC. I'm looking for a source of high-res encoders. If I do this project for myself I'll try to sell some on Ebay and save cash for a cute CZ-101. My only question is: how fast can UP / Down key presses be made? (key debouncing software on the CZ limits the maximum rate) Will it be fast enough? (after a quick turn of the encoder the value will take some time to update) --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "Giles Thompson" <giles@...> wrote:
> > oh man i would kill for this. any details would be appreciated. > chur > > > I really want a knob/wheel to program the CZ. > > > > I gave up on reverse-engeneering approaches but thought of a simpler > > and more universal solution: a little PIC reads the rotation of an > > encoder and outputs the corresponding +/- key presses at high speed to > > the keyboard interface, using a pair of opto-couplers. > > Has anyone done this, is it available anywhere? > > > > Joaquim > > > > >
2008-03-05 by Andy Joyce
Can't you do this via an external data slider (any MIDI box or keyboard) mapped to a CC on the CZ-1? M-Audio, Novation, and others have several small controllers to accomplish this.
Anyone try this first?
jdcx64 <jdcx64@...> wrote:
Ingredients: small PIC, high-res encoder, 2 x isolating optocouplers,
some software on the PIC.
I'm looking for a source of high-res encoders. If I do this project
for myself I'll try to sell some on Ebay and save cash for a cute CZ-101.
My only question is: how fast can UP / Down key presses be made? (key
debouncing software on the CZ limits the maximum rate) Will it be fast
enough? (after a quick turn of the encoder the value will take some
time to update)
--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "Giles Thompson" <giles@...> wrote:
>
> oh man i would kill for this. any details would be appreciated.
> chur
>
> > I really want a knob/wheel to program the CZ.
> >
> > I gave up on reverse-engeneering approaches but thought of a simpler
> > and more universal solution: a little PIC reads the rotation of an
> > encoder and outputs the corresponding +/- key presses at high speed to
> > the keyboard interface, using a pair of opto-couplers.
> > Has anyone done this, is it available anywhere?
> >
> > Joaquim
> >
> >
>
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2008-03-05 by Mark Rauch
Howdy, This has intrigued me for years. To make a pulse generator that will take the place of up/down, etc. Just hold a parameter and move a slider. Much handier. The question is, what kind of pulse or signal is required for up and what is required for down? Rig --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Andy Joyce <kingvidiot83@...> wrote: > > Can't you do this via an external data slider (any MIDI box or keyboard) mapped to a CC on the CZ-1? M-Audio, Novation, and others have several small controllers to accomplish this. > > Anyone try this first? > > jdcx64 <jdcx64@...> wrote: > Ingredients: small PIC, high-res encoder, 2 x isolating optocouplers, > some software on the PIC. > > I'm looking for a source of high-res encoders. If I do this project > for myself I'll try to sell some on Ebay and save cash for a cute CZ-101. > > My only question is: how fast can UP / Down key presses be made? (key > debouncing software on the CZ limits the maximum rate) Will it be fast > enough? (after a quick turn of the encoder the value will take some > time to update) > > --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "Giles Thompson" <giles@> wrote: > > > > oh man i would kill for this. any details would be appreciated. > > chur > > > > > I really want a knob/wheel to program the CZ. > > > > > > I gave up on reverse-engeneering approaches but thought of a simpler > > > and more universal solution: a little PIC reads the rotation of an > > > encoder and outputs the corresponding +/- key presses at high speed to > > > the keyboard interface, using a pair of opto-couplers. > > > Has anyone done this, is it available anywhere? > > > > > > Joaquim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
2008-03-05 by jdcx64
The UP pulse connects the two terminals of the UP button for a short interval. A waiting interval before the next pulse is required so that the CZ has time to digest it. I will investigate how short the intervals can be. Anyway, changes too quick won't get lost, I'll store the input in an accumulator and output it as quickly as possible. Sliders are nice if you have one for each parameter. Rotating encoders are better for sharing between many parameter as they have no absolute position. --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Rauch" <billbigrig@...> wrote:
> > Howdy, > > This has intrigued me for years. To make a pulse generator that will > take the place of up/down, etc. Just hold a parameter and move a > slider. Much handier. The question is, what kind of pulse or signal > is required for up and what is required for down? > Rig > > --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Andy Joyce <kingvidiot83@> wrote: > > > > Can't you do this via an external data slider (any MIDI box or > keyboard) mapped to a CC on the CZ-1? M-Audio, Novation, and others > have several small controllers to accomplish this. > > > > Anyone try this first? > > > > jdcx64 <jdcx64@> wrote: > > Ingredients: small PIC, high-res encoder, 2 x isolating > optocouplers, > > some software on the PIC. > > > > I'm looking for a source of high-res encoders. If I do this project > > for myself I'll try to sell some on Ebay and save cash for a cute > CZ-101. > > > > My only question is: how fast can UP / Down key presses be made? > (key > > debouncing software on the CZ limits the maximum rate) Will it be > fast > > enough? (after a quick turn of the encoder the value will take some > > time to update) > > > > --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "Giles Thompson" <giles@> wrote: > > > > > > oh man i would kill for this. any details would be appreciated. > > > chur > > > > > > > I really want a knob/wheel to program the CZ. > > > > > > > > I gave up on reverse-engeneering approaches but thought of a > simpler > > > > and more universal solution: a little PIC reads the rotation of > an > > > > encoder and outputs the corresponding +/- key presses at high > speed to > > > > the keyboard interface, using a pair of opto-couplers. > > > > Has anyone done this, is it available anywhere? > > > > > > > > Joaquim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >
2008-03-05 by jdcx64
--- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Andy Joyce <kingvidiot83@...> wrote: > > Can't you do this via an external data slider (any MIDI box or keyboard) mapped to a CC on the CZ-1? M-Audio, Novation, and others have several small controllers to accomplish this. I wish I could but I don't know of any sysex message for parameter changes. If anyone knows otherwise please let me know! > > Anyone try this first? > > jdcx64 <jdcx64@...> wrote: > Ingredients: small PIC, high-res encoder, 2 x isolating optocouplers, > some software on the PIC. > > I'm looking for a source of high-res encoders. If I do this project > for myself I'll try to sell some on Ebay and save cash for a cute CZ-101. > > My only question is: how fast can UP / Down key presses be made? (key > debouncing software on the CZ limits the maximum rate) Will it be fast > enough? (after a quick turn of the encoder the value will take some > time to update) > > --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "Giles Thompson" <giles@> wrote: > > > > oh man i would kill for this. any details would be appreciated. > > chur > > > > > I really want a knob/wheel to program the CZ. > > > > > > I gave up on reverse-engeneering approaches but thought of a simpler > > > and more universal solution: a little PIC reads the rotation of an > > > encoder and outputs the corresponding +/- key presses at high speed to > > > the keyboard interface, using a pair of opto-couplers. > > > Has anyone done this, is it available anywhere? > > > > > > Joaquim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
2008-03-06 by Peter Ullrich
Hi!
> oh man i would kill for this. any details would be appreciated.
> chur
>
> > I really want a knob/wheel to program the CZ.
> >
> > I gave up on reverse-engeneering approaches but thought of a simpler
> > and more universal solution: a little PIC reads the rotation of an
> > encoder and outputs the corresponding +/- key presses at high speed to
> > the keyboard interface, using a pair of opto-couplers.
> > Has anyone done this, is it available anywhere?
> >
> > Joaquim
I had the same idea a few years ago and built a prototype with quite discrete
electronics. Worked fine but was too big.
A friend designed a very small pcb that has a little encoder on it and a
ATTiny12 (AVR chip) on it and a 4066 analog switch circuit that will be
connected to the plus and minus buttons in the synth.
I installed it into a Kawai K3M (with only minor space behind the front panel)
and it works fine! The optimum pulse time for this synth was about 5ms if I
remember correctly... The Kawai K3M pages on my webpage don't show the addon -
the pictures have been taken before I added the encoder...
Everything works fine but the problem is to find the optimum pulse time.
I wanted to change his design so that there is a little trimpot on one IO pin
and add a little analog to digital converter in software so that the pulse time
can be set with the trimpot setting.
The problem was that I could not find the time to do it.
I want to add this little circuit in the next years into some of my synths
(Crumar Bit01, Korg Poly61, Casio CZ101, Korg Poly800,...)
So: The idea can be realized and works fine - but for universal use some changes
and tests are needed... As it is the project of my friend I can't give away the
design as he wanted to sell it some day... But due to lack of time the project
is on hold now.
If you are interested I could make some photos of the little addon.
Ciao
Peter
\|/
(o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
Ing. Peter Ullrich
Hardware & Software Developer / Electronic Musician
Private Homepage: http://www.ullrich.at.tt
.oooO
( ) Oooo.
\ ( ( )
-----\_)----) /--------------------------------------------------------
(_/
s/
--------------------------------------
Ein Service von http://www.networld.at2008-03-07 by jdcx64
Hi and thanks for your input! 5ms is fast, if the CZ is that fast values can go from 0 to 100 in half a second, that would feel great. I was thinking of storing the pulse width configuration in the flash memory inside the PIC. Configuration mode could be entered the same way you open a safe: 5 left, 3 right, 2 left, etc. If it is long enough it won't be entered by mistake. Joaquim --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Peter Ullrich <synpro@...> wrote: > > > Hi! > > > oh man i would kill for this. any details would be appreciated. > > chur > > > > > I really want a knob/wheel to program the CZ. > > > > > > I gave up on reverse-engeneering approaches but thought of a simpler > > > and more universal solution: a little PIC reads the rotation of an > > > encoder and outputs the corresponding +/- key presses at high speed to > > > the keyboard interface, using a pair of opto-couplers. > > > Has anyone done this, is it available anywhere? > > > > > > Joaquim > > I had the same idea a few years ago and built a prototype with quite discrete > electronics. Worked fine but was too big. > > A friend designed a very small pcb that has a little encoder on it and a > ATTiny12 (AVR chip) on it and a 4066 analog switch circuit that will be > connected to the plus and minus buttons in the synth. > > I installed it into a Kawai K3M (with only minor space behind the front panel) > and it works fine! The optimum pulse time for this synth was about 5ms if I > remember correctly... The Kawai K3M pages on my webpage don't show the addon - > the pictures have been taken before I added the encoder... > > Everything works fine but the problem is to find the optimum pulse time. > I wanted to change his design so that there is a little trimpot on one IO pin > and add a little analog to digital converter in software so that the pulse time > can be set with the trimpot setting. > > The problem was that I could not find the time to do it. > > I want to add this little circuit in the next years into some of my synths > (Crumar Bit01, Korg Poly61, Casio CZ101, Korg Poly800,...) > > So: The idea can be realized and works fine - but for universal use some changes > and tests are needed... As it is the project of my friend I can't give away the > design as he wanted to sell it some day... But due to lack of time the project > is on hold now. > > If you are interested I could make some photos of the little addon. > > Ciao > Peter > > \|/ > (o o) > --oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------ > Ing. Peter Ullrich > Hardware & Software Developer / Electronic Musician > Private Homepage: http://www.ullrich.at.tt
> .oooO > ( ) Oooo. > \ ( ( ) > -----\_)----) /-------------------------------------------------------- > (_/ > > > s/ > > -------------------------------------- > Ein Service von http://www.networld.at >
2008-03-07 by Atom Smasher
On Thu, 6 Mar 2008, Peter Ullrich wrote:
> I want to add this little circuit in the next years into some of my
> synths (Crumar Bit01, Korg Poly61, Casio CZ101, Korg Poly800,...)
================
for the poly-800...
http://patrioticduo.tripod.com/korgpoly800ex800mkiii/index.html
ok, who wants to volunteer to do a software upgrade for the CZ-1?
although, in software, you could make a CZ-101 respond to velocity... and
CCs, etc...
--
...atom
________________________
http://atom.smasher.org/
762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
-------------------------------------------------
"In fact a vegan driving a hummer would be contributing
less greenhouse gas carbon emissions than a meat eater
riding a bicycle."
-- Capt Paul Watson, A Very Inconvenient Truth2008-03-07 by Peter Ullrich
jdcx64 wrote:
> Hi and thanks for your input!
>
> 5ms is fast, if the CZ is that fast values can go from 0 to 100 in
> half a second, that would feel great.
Don't forget that the synth needs to see a pause after a pulse too - otherwise
we would count is only as one long pulse. So at least a 5ms pause is needed.
So theoretically from 0 to 100 in 1 second. But remember this is very dependent
on the synth scanning principle/speed!
> I was thinking of storing the pulse width configuration in the flash
> memory inside the PIC. Configuration mode could be entered the same
> way you open a safe: 5 left, 3 right, 2 left, etc. If it is long
> enough it won't be entered by mistake.
Nice idea! Thanx!
This could be a scheme that tells the end of input and also offers a possibility
to cancel the saving:
1. First enter the code: 5 left, 3 right, 2 left, 4 right, 7 left
2. Enter number of milliseconds by turning right (==> 20ms = 20 right)
3a. End input and save with 1 left 1 right
3b. End input and cancel without saving with 2 left
A nice addon would be a small piezo beeper that beeps once after step 1 (ready
for input) and twice when saved or beeps 4 times when input has been cancelled.
I should have a look for the code and start programming it on my own as my
friend stopped this project after the first prototype due to lack of time.
Ciao
Peter
\|/
(o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
Ing. Peter Ullrich
Hardware & Software Developer / Electronic Musician
Private Homepage: http://www.ullrich.at.tt
.oooO
( ) Oooo.
\ ( ( )
-----\_)----) /--------------------------------------------------------
(_/
--------------------------------------
Ein Service von http://www.networld.at2008-03-07 by Peter Ullrich
Zitat von Atom Smasher <atom@...>:
> On Thu, 6 Mar 2008, Peter Ullrich wrote:
>
> > I want to add this little circuit in the next years into some of my
> > synths (Crumar Bit01, Korg Poly61, Casio CZ101, Korg Poly800,...)
> ================
>
> for the poly-800...
> http://patrioticduo.tripod.com/korgpoly800ex800mkiii/index.html
Very interesting!
> ok, who wants to volunteer to do a software upgrade for the CZ-1?
> although, in software, you could make a CZ-101 respond to velocity... and
> CCs, etc...
Especially a velocity patch would be fine!
Ciao
Peter
\|/
(o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
Ing. Peter Ullrich
Hardware & Software Developer / Electronic Musician
Private Homepage: http://www.ullrich.at.tt
.oooO
( ) Oooo.
\ ( ( )
-----\_)----) /--------------------------------------------------------
(_/
--------------------------------------
Ein Service von http://www.networld.at2008-03-21 by jdcx64
Please help me with wheel positioning. This is my initial idea: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/files/wheel.jpg The cursor keys wont be needed much, the encoders I've got have a press-down feature that I will setup as an enter key. The encoders arrived today, I'll start PIC programming soon. Joaquim --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "jdcx64" <jdcx64@...> wrote:
> > I really want a knob/wheel to program the CZ. > > I gave up on reverse-engeneering approaches but thought of a simpler > and more universal solution: a little PIC reads the rotation of an > encoder and outputs the corresponding +/- key presses at high speed to > the keyboard interface, using a pair of opto-couplers. > Has anyone done this, is it available anywhere? > > Joaquim >
2008-03-22 by Atom Smasher
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008, jdcx64 wrote:
> This is my initial idea:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/files/wheel.jpg
=====================
that looks like a k5000 data wheel....
man, if anyone was up for the task of writing an OS upgrade for the CZ-101
you could just plug a midi controller into your CZ and not have to play
around with this type of hardware mod.
--
...atom
________________________
http://atom.smasher.org/
762A 3B98 A3C3 96C9 C6B7 582A B88D 52E4 D9F5 7808
-------------------------------------------------
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force;
like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never
for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."
-- George Washington2008-03-23 by Peter Ullrich
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/files/wheel.jpg
>
> The cursor keys wont be needed much, the encoders I've got have a
> press-down feature that I will setup as an enter key.
>
> The encoders arrived today, I'll start PIC programming soon.
> >
> > I really want a knob/wheel to program the CZ.
> >
> > I gave up on reverse-engeneering approaches but thought of a simpler
> > and more universal solution: a little PIC reads the rotation of an
> > encoder and outputs the corresponding +/- key presses at high speed to
> > the keyboard interface, using a pair of opto-couplers.
> > Has anyone done this, is it available anywhere?
> >
> > Joaquim
As already told a friend and I built one with an AVR Tiny12.
Instead of using expensive optocouplers you could use analog switches 4066 or
4016. As you are working with the same power supply it works fine and is much
cheaper!
Ciao
Peter
\|/
(o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
Ing. Peter Ullrich
Hardware & Software Developer / Electronic Musician
Private Homepage: http://www.ullrich.at.tt
.oooO
( ) Oooo.
\ ( ( )
-----\_)----) /--------------------------------------------------------
(_/
--------------------------------------
Ein Service von http://www.networld.at2008-03-26 by Mark Rauch
Howdy, So which parts do we order? And who out there will sell a preburned PIC chip to complete the process. With several CZs, I'm VERY interested in this. Rig --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, Peter Ullrich <synpro@...> wrote: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CZsynth/files/wheel.jpg > > > > The cursor keys wont be needed much, the encoders I've got have a > > press-down feature that I will setup as an enter key. > > > > The encoders arrived today, I'll start PIC programming soon. > > > > > > I really want a knob/wheel to program the CZ. > > > > > > I gave up on reverse-engeneering approaches but thought of a simpler > > > and more universal solution: a little PIC reads the rotation of an > > > encoder and outputs the corresponding +/- key presses at high speed to > > > the keyboard interface, using a pair of opto-couplers. > > > Has anyone done this, is it available anywhere? > > > > > > Joaquim > > As already told a friend and I built one with an AVR Tiny12. > Instead of using expensive optocouplers you could use analog switches 4066 or > 4016. As you are working with the same power supply it works fine and is much > cheaper! > > Ciao > Peter > > \|/ > (o o) > --oOOO--(_)--OOOo--------------------------------------------------- --- > Ing. Peter Ullrich > Hardware & Software Developer / Electronic Musician > Private Homepage: http://www.ullrich.at.tt > .oooO > ( ) Oooo. > \ ( ( ) > -----\_)----) /----------------------------------------------------- ---
> (_/ > > > > > -------------------------------------- > Ein Service von http://www.networld.at >